Class 319 future

[MatthewRead]

Since the North of England don't want them surely it would only be right if some went to Great Western and the 387s went to the North or the 365s for that matter then they wouldn't be complaining so much about South Of England cast-offs.

 

[43074]

Since the North of England don't want them surely it would only be right if some went to Great Western and the 387s went to the North or the 365s for that matter then they wouldn't be complaining so much about South Of England cast-offs.

What? Northern are taking on extra units in the current franchise (7 or 12, can't remember how many), don't you think if they 'don't want them' they would have gone for new trains to replace them in their bid for the franchise? It doesn't especially matter whether or not they [the passengers] want them, there aren't many alternatives available and that's what they have to make do with.

Besides, Great Western's 387s will be able to run at 110mph compared to the 100mph top speed of the 319s, so making better use of fast line capacity.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Excellent idea to replace the 313s.

Would also fit in with GTR's plan for DOO

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, I never liked the 319s in terms of their comfort, but they operated very reliably on some really intense London routes quite happily for 25 years, as have the related 321s, so they're unreliability with Northern is to me surprising

Depends which ones. The 2+2 seated 319/2s are delightful.

 

[Class377/5]

313/2 aren't getting replaced.

 

[AM9]

Depends which ones. The 2+2 seated 319/2s are delightful.

Although the 3 + 2 seats don't seem to affect their reliability.

 

[childwallblues]

Since the North of England don't want them surely it would only be right if some went to Great Western and the 387s went to the North or the 365s for that matter then they wouldn't be complaining so much about South Of England cast-offs.

I am not sure where you get the idea that they are not wanted up here. They provide more capacity replacing mainly 142 and 150 units. The 156 units are more comfortable and reliable but the 319 wins on the noise factor.

 

[northwichcat]

What? Northern are taking on extra units in the current franchise (7 or 12, can't remember how many), don't you think if they 'don't want them' they would have gone for new trains to replace them in their bid for the franchise? It doesn't especially matter whether or not they [the passengers] want them, there aren't many alternatives available and that's what they have to make do with.

Porterbrook seemed to have a vision of Northern taking on a large fleet of 319s and using re-engineered 319s to replace 323s and refurbished 319s (with air conditioning) on the Northern Connect service. They even refused to offer long term 323 leases to Northern bidders seemingly in an attempt to achieve that. However, Arriva decided if the 323s weren't available then the solution was 43 x new EMUs and 27 or 32 x 319s (both 7 and 12 additional 319s have been reported), leaving up to 59 x 319s available for other franchises, as well the 17 x 323s Porterbrook didn't want Northern to keep.

 

[swt_passenger]

Did the 319s that went to Northern have absolutly all their 3rd rail equipment removed in the end or just the external stuff?

In a older unit such as a 319 the 'external stuff' is almost the only 'third rail stuff', apart from the connecting cables and fuses. There really isn't anything left that could be considered 'DC only' that could significantly affect reliability.

 

[Mikey C]

Depends which ones. The 2+2 seated 319/2s are delightful.

The seats are still too low, and they're much noisier than later stock with aircon.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The seats are still too low, and they're much noisier than later stock with aircon.

You've been in a Desiro, right? The aircon is like having a Hoover in the ceiling. The absolute silence when a 319 or similar stops is bliss.

 

[northwichcat]

You've been in a Desiro, right? The aircon is like having a Hoover in the ceiling. The absolute silence when a 319 or similar stops is bliss.

I've never really noticed any excessive air con noise on 350s. If the windows are open on a 319 then they'll be more noise on the 319.

 

[Mikey C]

You've been in a Desiro, right? The aircon is like having a Hoover in the ceiling. The absolute silence when a 319 or similar stops is bliss.

But the racket from outside through the opening windows, especially going through tunnels is surely much more intrusive...

 

[physics34]

Love a bit of open window action, noises or not, the trip on a 365 fast from.Cambridge to London on a summers day was great!!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've never really noticed any excessive air con noise on 350s.

Do you use the same 350s I do?!

They have many benefits, but they are *not* quiet. The aircon makes a very loud "no signal on the TV" white noise.

 

[physics34]

But the racket from outside through the opening windows, especially going through tunnels is surely much more intrusive...

Not really. A few seconds is all it is. The rest of the time it's the sound of "motion". Love it. Give me a rattly old slam door anyway too. All the squeaks, creaks and shakes make it feel like you are on a train!

 

[northwichcat]

Do you use the same 350s I do?!

They have many benefits, but they are *not* quiet. The aircon makes a very loud "no signal on the TV" white noise.

I've been on a few different 350/1s and /2s. I've never been on a /3. Although, on all but one occasion I've travelled on a Pacer or Sprinter immediately before or after travelling on the 350.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I've been on a few different 350/1s and /2s. I've never been on a /3. Although, on all but one occasion I've travelled on a Pacer or Sprinter immediately before or after travelling on the 350.

The Air Con noise is loud on Desiros, I've been on 350/1s, 444s and 450s and they are all the same. Admittedly it probably sounds quiet after a pacer or a sprinter.

 

[notlob.divad]

On the routes 319s are currently using we are used to the sound of the outside of the train it is the only thing we have ever known. We are also used to the windows slamming shut every time we enter a tunnel or a train on the other line goes past. Getting up to open them again is what keeps us fit and healthy.



Personally I'm just glad I don't get thrown out of my seat every time we cross a set of points. Even if that means my knees are by my ears and I'm squashed in the middle of a 3 with someone opposite kicking my shins.

 

[childwallblues]

Do you use the same 350s I do?!

They have many benefits, but they are *not* quiet. The aircon makes a very loud "no signal on the TV" white noise.

It is bliss when LM 350s pass through dead sections.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Does the aircon on 350s/360s/380s/450s run permanently on a higher power setting to take into account that there's no vestibule doors between the external doors and the seating area?

 

[samuelmorris]

off-topic zone, but it's actually normally still in low-power mode despite the noise. It gets a lot louder on hot days.

 

[AM9]

Does the aircon on 350s/360s/380s/450s run permanently on a higher power setting to take into account that there's no vestibule doors between the external doors and the seating area?

I doubt it, it's not necessary on a journey as the doors aren't open long enough to make a difference.

 

[D365]

Does the aircon on 350s/360s/380s/450s run permanently on a higher power setting to take into account that there's no vestibule doors between the external doors and the seating area?

I can't imagine that any of the suburban rolling stock in use today incorporates vestibule doors (excluding first class).

 

[swt_passenger]

I can't imagine that any of the suburban rolling stock in use today incorporates vestibule doors (excluding first class).

Well there's always the 444s, (although not in every carriage), but only if you agree with Roger Ford's view that they are outer suburban trains...

 

[AM9]

Well there's always the 444s, (although not in every carriage), but only if you agree with Roger Ford's view that they are outer suburban trains...

They are regional trains provided for average journeys of over 1 hour. The fact that have be deployed on both the Portsmouth direct and Alton services doesn't make them suitable for high density commuter service.

 

[swt_passenger]

They are regional trains provided for average journeys of over 1 hour. The fact that have be deployed on both the Portsmouth direct and Alton services doesn't make them suitable for high density commuter service.

You didn't see the smiley then...

 

[AM9]

You didn't see the smiley then...

I must get a new screen then!

 

[fowler9]

I think the thing with the 350's is that the noise is constant. You only notice it when you go through a neutral section and the noise stops and you realise that it is really effing loud. Ha ha. I love the 319's. Especially the ones from Parkway in to town. I go from West Allerton to Lime Street every time I am able. They are quiet, comfortable, and I am normally the only person on it. Ha ha.

 

[Alteran Ancient]

I was informed by one of my sources that Southeastern are still hoping to get a handful of 319s (their drivers are already trained for them) for them to use on the Orpington and Sevenoaks Metro routes, so that more of the 465s can be freed-up to to work the Dartford and Hayes services. That also frees-up more of the 376s for other services, and SE then probably won't inherit any 377s from TL or Southern.

This would essentially have had the same result as the 377s they were originally planning to get, so 465s that currently work the outer-suburbans would have been freed to do those all-important Dartford services.

One way or another, they get what they want.