Brighton Mainline 27 December

[causton]

Was going to go down on a diverted train tomorrow... will steer well clear now I've heard this! (No idea what I'll do now though!)

 

[sarahj]

Posted on the weather forum, but will post here as well:

Well according to one passenger today, the Southern diversions via East Grinstead are a Scientology plot, all set up by a Scientology bigwig at the DOT. It seems some conspiracy sites are aledging this.

(for those that dont know, The UK HQ of Scientology is just outside East Grinstead)

Meanwhile in the real world: Seemed ok, but a 6 min turnaround at Three Bridges was just not enough, even for the driver to walk from one end to the other.
Most pointless trains running at the mo:
Brighton-Littlehampton-Horsham-Three Bridges to connect into Horsham to London via Dorking services DOH!!!!

 

[OxtedL]

I'm reading there's now a trespasser at Hurst Green messing things up

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/66142.aspx

 

[sarahj]

Well there is something for you all to look out for now, our 73 is back, and in Southern Colours.

 

[RichardN]

I suspect that there is more utility in giving the bluebell some money to complete their Ardingly spur, then you could run a diesel shuttle from HH to East Grinstead.

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[Bishopstone]

Bishopstone, a few regs from your line are palnning to drive to East Grinstead. However, I have been warning them that parking will be an issue, esp with all the buses floating around. TBH, hand on heart, I'm not going to recomend one over the other. All I can adivse is give lots of time, listen out, keep an eye on the websites, and just go with the flow.

Thanks sarahj. I don't think I'd drive any further than Uckfield on a cold, dark and probably wet morning, and have no idea what the parking is like there, but I might give it a go on Monday. The change of scenery instead of the BML would be nice.

On Tuesday (NYE) I'll probably go via the Three Bridges - East Grinstead historic PCV rally.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Not sure what parking there is at the station, but there is a large free car park in the town centre. From the A26/A22 roundabout drive north up the A22, next roundabout turn right, down to the end passing McDs and Tesco on route. At end is a T junction turn left (opposite direction to station), and a little way up the hill on the left is the free car park (if you miss the first entrance there is a 2nd one immediately by the cinema. Ensure you park in one of the long stay spaces.

Then a five minute walk back down the hill to the station.

 

[Bishopstone]

Not sure what parking there is at the station, but there is a large free car park in the town centre. From the A26/A22 roundabout drive north up the A22, next roundabout turn right, down to the end passing McDs and Tesco on route. At end is a T junction turn left (opposite direction to station), and a little way up the hill on the left is the free car park (if you miss the first entrance there is a 2nd one immediately by the cinema. Ensure you park in one of the long stay spaces.

Then a five minute walk back down the hill to the station.

That's really helpful Chris - thank you. I've no issue with a stroll from car park to station.

In the circumstances, I hope any Conductor/RPI would look kindly on my Seaford - London annual season.

 

[30909]

I notice the Southern site is now talking about replacement buses between Dorking and Three Bridges for Saturday. That's quite a long bus ride.

Am I missing something here unless the busses are routed via A24 A264 (Horsham) Three Bridges why not go the shortest route via A25, A217 A23 GATWICK then Three Bridges and return. Dropping off and picking up London (Dorking)-Gatwick - Three Bridges - Gatwick - (Dorking) London passengers?

 

[ushawk]

Am I missing something here unless the busses are routed via A24 A264 (Horsham) Three Bridges why not go the shortest route via A25, A217 A23 GATWICK then Three Bridges and return. Dropping off and picking up London (Dorking)-Gatwick - Three Bridges - Gatwick - (Dorking) London passengers?

Probably because buses are getting filled up at Three Bridges - but still they could run them that way.

Would take about 45 minutes via the A23 and Reigate, not sure via Horsham.

 

[yorksrob]

I wouldnt say Brighton is a small town tacked on to the London - Gatwick route !! Brighton is one of the biggest destinations in the South of England !! Gatwick is one of the major destinations on the line, without a doubt.

Apologies - I meant to say I don't think the BML can be characterised as little more than a Gatwick to London route with a few extra towns tacked on.

 

[RichardN]

Probably because buses are getting filled up at Three Bridges - but still they could run them that way.

Would take about 45 minutes via the A23 and Reigate, not sure via Horsham.

I'd have thought 45 minutes in light traffic. From Horsham, outside the rush hour, it takes about 20 minutes to Dorking.

Incidentally there was already a planned Horsham Dorking bus to cover the missing stopping service. Tortuous route to serve all the stations though.
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[sarahj]

Seems today one of the issues is people changing at Horsham for the bus to Dorking. This is overloading the one bus an hour and causing a bit of an issue due to passengers hanging around. Messages have been urging staff to send everyone to Three Bridges, but two hours on it seems its still a mess.

 

[LBSCR Times]

Am I missing something here unless the busses are routed via A24 A264 (Horsham) Three Bridges why not go the shortest route via A25, A217 A23 GATWICK then Three Bridges and return. Dropping off and picking up London (Dorking)-Gatwick - Three Bridges - Gatwick - (Dorking) London passengers?

Because the Airport Authorities are very restrictive on where rail replacement buses stop at the Airport.

 

[JonathanH]

Is the renewal of Stoats Nest Junction going to have been worth all the aggravation this Christmas?

I guess so because it will last for another 30 years but I recall that there was a plan in one consultation a few years back to reduce the use of it and Gatwick Express won't use it once the new platforms are sorted out at Gatwick. Is the benefit to off-peak travellers from Redhill (me included) worth the delays crossing trains cause to trains to all other Southern destinations? (The implied suggestion here is that Arun Valley trains cross to the Quarry Line at the crossover north of Gatwick and avoid Redhill.)

 

[danielson00]

Just my 2ps worth here..

I travelled back from Suffolk yesterday, got the train to Liverpool Street and booked a coach from Victoria to Brighton. Thinking I could avoid the train/bus/train combo to Brighton.

Victoria coach station was rammed! Seems everyone had the same idea as me, plus lots of tourists heading for Gatwick.

On the plus side got back in 2h10 from Victoria. However I am sure there is a seperate forum for saying how unfit for purpose Victoria coach station is!

 

[Chrisgr31]

Well there is something for you all to look out for now, our 73 is back, and in Southern Colours.

Where's it been? And is it going to be used to recover broken down trains now its back?

 

[RichardN]

What happens with stock stranded on the wrong side? Presumably stock needs to rotate to Selhurst for servicing?

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[westcoaster]

Where's it been? And is it going to be used to recover broken down trains now its back?

http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/news/southern/2013-73202-snlivery.html

Not my favorite.

 

[ushawk]

What happens with stock stranded on the wrong side? Presumably stock needs to rotate to Selhurst for servicing?

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Probably just use Lovers Walk at Brighton if needed.

Eastbourne to Victoria using the bus from Three Bridges - Dorking took 3 hours. The bus got lost twice and got stuck down a dead end in the Crawley area.

Coming back i went via Coulsdon Town, which wasnt very busy at all and 30 minutes quicker than via Dorking.

 

[louis97]

Is the renewal of Stoats Nest Junction going to have been worth all the aggravation this Christmas?

I guess so because it will last for another 30 years but I recall that there was a plan in one consultation a few years back to reduce the use of it and Gatwick Express won't use it once the new platforms are sorted out at Gatwick. Is the benefit to off-peak travellers from Redhill (me included) worth the delays crossing trains cause to trains to all other Southern destinations? (The implied suggestion here is that Arun Valley trains cross to the Quarry Line at the crossover north of Gatwick and avoid Redhill.)

You are getting confused on the location of Stoats Nest Junction, it isn't the junction North of Gatwick, its the junction near Coulsdon South where the line branches off to Redhill and the Quarry Lines.

 

[JonathanH]

Originally Posted by JonathanH
Is the renewal of Stoats Nest Junction going to have been worth all the aggravation this Christmas?

I guess so because it will last for another 30 years but I recall that there was a plan in one consultation a few years back to reduce the use of it and Gatwick Express won't use it once the new platforms are sorted out at Gatwick. Is the benefit to off-peak travellers from Redhill (me included) worth the delays crossing trains cause to trains to all other Southern destinations? (The implied suggestion here is that Arun Valley trains cross to the Quarry Line at the crossover north of Gatwick and avoid Redhill.)

You are getting confused on the location of Stoats Nest Junction, it isn't the junction North of Gatwick, its the junction near Coulsdon South where the line branches off to Redhill and the Quarry Lines.

No confusion on my part, although I could have been clearer. I was referring to the routeing of part of the Gatwick Express service down the Redhill line rather than Quarry lines in which case it crosses to the fast at Stoats Nest Junction rather than at (what I think is) Tinsley Green Junction. Once all Gatwick Express services are on the fast, the only real beneficiaries of the work at Stoats Nest Junction are people travelling to and from Redhill.

Although the timetable tries its best to match crossing moves at Stoats Nest Junction, the north and southbound moves rarely happen at the same time causing delays to other services.

 

[Southern313]

The vast majority of Gat Ex services are booked on the fast (quarry) lines but route retention means some are and will always be booked to go via Redhill.

Various passenger groups have campaigned for faster Arun Valley services by crossing to the fast lines at either Three Bridges or Gatwick which, admittedly would remove the time consuming stop at Redhill including the time needed to negotiate the restrictive speeds into and out of the platforms. However this would reduce service levels at Redhill and add two more trains per hour onto an already congested quarry line. I don't think Southern/NR/DoT have ever considered the proposal for Arun Valley services to avoid Redhill.

To be honest, I would think all the track, point work etc is approaching life expiry and it's all been in need of replacing for ages. Shame that the quite violent bouncing at 90mph on the down fast over the junction will be a thing of the past!

 

[Timothy Turtle]

No confusion on my part, although I could have been clearer. I was referring to the routeing of part of the Gatwick Express service down the Redhill line rather than Quarry lines in which case it crosses to the fast at Stoats Nest Junction rather than at (what I think is) Tinsley Green Junction. .

Tinsley Green is the junction about half a mile south of Gatwick. The S&C at the London end of Gatwick is simply referred to as Gatwick North.

 

[sarahj]

Where's it been? And is it going to be used to recover broken down trains now its back?

Its sitting in Lovers Walk, having brought down the 442 that hit the landslide on the quarry, so the answer is yes.

 

[pitdiver]

Just my 2ps worth here..

I travelled back from Suffolk yesterday, got the train to Liverpool Street and booked a coach from Victoria to Brighton. Thinking I could avoid the train/bus/train combo to Brighton.

Victoria coach station was rammed! Seems everyone had the same idea as me, plus lots of tourists heading for Gatwick.

On the plus side got back in 2h10 from Victoria. However I am sure there is a seperate forum for saying how unfit for purpose Victoria coach station is!

VCS is certainly unfit for purpose has been for years. The arrivals area is the absolute pits. But don't worry TfL are trying to get rid of it. The whole area is up for redevelopment. But the building is a listed structure.
How do I know I use be a Coach Station Manager for National Express.

 

[radamfi]

They were using a 2+3 seated coach on the Dorking to Three Bridges bus today! These are only suitable for school transport.

 

[HowardGWR]

VCS is certainly unfit for purpose has been for years. The arrivals area is the absolute pits. But don't worry TfL are trying to get rid of it. The whole area is up for redevelopment. But the building is a listed structure.
How do I know I use be a Coach Station Manager for National Express.

How good to have you on here! On another site (London Reconnections I think) there was a discussion about VCS. I would be interested in your view. Does coach extract the cream traffic from rail, or should such traffic just be seen as the froth on the pint (hope I haven't insulted anyone!). I suppose it's different now since rail is jam packed nowadays anyway.

 

[radamfi]

In England certainly, the capacity of coaches is so tiny in comparison to trains it really is insignificant. Maybe in Scotland it is a bit different as coach journey times are more comparable.

 

[thelem]

I suspect that there is more utility in giving the bluebell some money to complete their Ardingly spur, then you could run a diesel shuttle from HH to East Grinstead.

Nice idea in theory, but I doubt it's legal to just divert a train over track that isn't maintained by Network Rail. You'd probably need NR to take over the whole of the bluebell and bring it up to their standards.