Brighton Mainline 27 December

[yorksrob]

Nice idea in theory, but I doubt it's legal to just divert a train over track that isn't maintained by Network Rail. You'd probably need NR to take over the whole of the bluebell and bring it up to their standards.

Presumably, Network Rail would just need to perform regular checks to ensure that the route was maintained to an adequate standard and reimburse the Bluebell as necessary. Could be a nice little earner for the Bluebell in that they‘re less likely to be operating during severe weather. On the minus side, since, planned engineering is less likely as it tends to take place at weekends when the Bluebell will be at its height, so less worth the effort to NR. Worth considering though !

 

[Timothy Turtle]

I suspect that there is more utility in giving the bluebell some money to complete their Ardingly spur, then you could run a diesel shuttle from HH to East Grinstead.

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Unfortunately, the Bluebell has also suffered an earthslip and East Grinstead - Horsted Keynes is closed until 4th January, so couldn't have been used in this instance.

 

[Jonny]

As an aside, would there be traction or rolling stock issues on the Bluebell as a diversion given that the Bluebell is not electrified and the EMUs on Southern don't seem to be designed for being dragged in normal service.

 

[Minstral25]

Redhill Services to Gatwick all cancelled this morning due to overrunning engineering works. Presume that is the platform 7 works at Gatwick although why that affects the slow lines as well is a surprise to me.
Does the weather mean the expectation of a service on Thursday when we all go back to work is at risk?

 

[tsr]

Redhill Services to Gatwick all cancelled this morning due to overrunning engineering works. Presume that is the platform 7 works at Gatwick although why that affects the slow lines as well is a surprise to me.

Engineering works are blocking all lines between Redhill & Gatwick, in order to ensure the signalling system is installed & tested (AFAIK). I believe some work to the tracks themselves has also been underway. Extra equipment is currently in use to ensure the work is completed ASAP. Apparently, Southern were telling their staff yesterday evening that the work would be complete on time, so why exactly it overran at such short notice is something of a mystery. I'll see if I can find out later (no promises, however!).

Does the weather mean the expectation of a service on Thursday when we all go back to work is at risk?

Poor weather has delayed some work at Stoats Nest Junction, but NR et al are trying to find as many extra staff as possible in order to get back to schedule. I understand they have a high volume of welding & also some conductor rail works still to complete.

 

[Minstral25]

TSR Thank you, you are very knowledgeable about Redhill, do you work in the industry?

I was looking forward to comfortable empty trains for the commute to work on Thursday, looks like I will be disappointed and have a nightmare 3 hour journey to work. Roll on the fun.

Really cannot understand why they can't put in a proper grade separated junction at Stoats Nest or Merstham where the lines are very close, there is plenty of room at both locations. Guess its money of course

 

[RichardN]

Really cannot understand why they can't put in a proper grade separated junction at Stoats Nest or Merstham where the lines are very close, there is plenty of room at both locations. Guess its money of course

From an uneducated layman's position, it looks like it would be possible to cut into the side of the cutting where the quarry crosses redhill to construct a spur from up Redhill to up quarry. I guess the steep sides of the cutting and the nearby road overbridge are why this hasn't happened as it would appear to be relatively cheap.

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[tsr]

TSR Thank you, you are very knowledgeable about Redhill, do you work in the industry?

Ah - you perhaps are unaware that I never confirm details of my employment on a public forum. The closest I can go is to say that I am currently directly affected by the engineering projects through my work & also personal circumstances, but I'm not saying exactly what that entails!

I was looking forward to comfortable empty trains for the commute to work on Thursday, looks like I will be disappointed and have a nightmare 3 hour journey to work. Roll on the fun.

To be honest with you, I have heard no confirmation that the works will overrun, but they have been behind schedule & more staff were required. I think the most accurate thing I can say is that the exact effects of using any further staff remain to be seen. There is, of course, some leeway in the schedule, but I wouldn't be allowed to say what that is, and I certainly don't know if it's all used up!

Really cannot understand why they can't put in a proper grade separated junction at Stoats Nest or Merstham where the lines are very close, there is plenty of room at both locations. Guess its money of course

Merstham might be a plan, and I recently posted my ideas on another thread. To summarise: put a "dive-under" through one of those industrial yards & relocate that business down to the old Up Goods Yard at Redhill, which will possibly soon be severed by the Platform 0 works there. That would link the Slows just South of Merstham onto the Fast Lines, providing a total of 6 roads all the way from there to Gatwick. The advantages include extra queuing space for trains to Gatwick if there is an incident, a reduction of the number of trains passing non-stop through Merstham & Coulsdon South, the possibility of extra trains to Redhill (maybe), perhaps new freight paths from Tonbridge towards the Quarry Line North of Merstham (allowing more attractive timings)... etc.

 

[radamfi]

The Southern home page says

The improvement works near Purley are ongoing and the planned hand back is still scheduled for the start of service on Thursday 2 January, however customers are advised to check here prior to travelling. The recent adverse weather may hamper some key elements of these works preventing the opening of the line, so please check before you travel.

 

[LBSCR Times]

At 9pm last night NR were saying there would be a right time hand back.
Now today at 6pm, they expect to hand back the Slow Lines in time for tomorrow's start of service......

 

[Stats]

The Southern home page says

The improvement works near Purley are ongoing and the planned hand back is still scheduled for the start of service on Thursday 2 January, however customers are advised to check here prior to travelling. The recent adverse weather may hamper some key elements of these works preventing the opening of the line, so please check before you travel.

That sounds ominous.

On the plus side, being on the rail replacement bus gave me a chance to see a Class 101 being hauled through the streets of East Grinstead!

 

[Class377/5]

Slow line should have been finished by now but work continues to get the fasts re-opened in the early hours.

 

[Minstral25]

That sounds ominous.

On the plus side, being on the rail replacement bus gave me a chance to see a Class 101 being hauled through the streets of East Grinstead!

I agree but on Thursday morning I'd prefer to get to work on time than watch Metro Cammell units being towed.

I'd love to know what the contingency is if they fail to get the lines open. A three hour journey to work will not impress. Especially as on recent occurrences where they say catch a 405 to Purley - all several thousand of Redhill daily commuters - bit of a squash

 

[tsr]

I agree but on Thursday morning I'd prefer to get to work on time than watch Metro Cammell units being towed.

I'd love to know what the contingency is if they fail to get the lines open. A three hour journey to work will not impress. Especially as on recent occurrences where they say catch a 405 to Purley - all several thousand of Redhill daily commuters - bit of a squash

I'm not exactly sure on this, but I should imagine they will request buses to follow the current service pattern, and will ask some passengers to travel via Dorking, where an enhanced service should then continue (even if trains are not running South of there).

 

[Minstral25]

I'm not exactly sure on this, but I should imagine they will request buses to follow the current service pattern, and will ask some passengers to travel via Dorking, where an enhanced service should then continue (even if trains are not running South of there).

I really hope not, as with that I can expect a 5 plus hour return journey to work. That would make me an extreme commuter I suppose.

 

[tsr]

Welding work has been ongoing at Stoats Nest Junction, and it's hoped that the trackwork & installations will be ready for testing later today (01/01/2014). This is a little speculative at present, I believe, and in any case, much depends on the signalling testing progress.

It may yet be a Happy New Year for commuters (etc.)!

 

[Stats]

Welding work has been ongoing at Stoats Nest Junction, and it's hoped that the trackwork & installations will be ready for testing later today (01/01/2014). This is a little speculative at present, I believe, and in any case, much depends on the signalling testing progress.

It may yet be a Happy New Year for commuters (etc.)!

Once the works are complete, there was going to be 48 hours of testing before the line is handed back. How can they fit 48 hours of testing into less than a day?

 

[ushawk]

Have heard that Southern have buses booked up until Sunday in case they overrun so they are prepared.

If it doesn't reopen on time tomorrow - then it will probably be the same service plan as today.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Once the works are complete, there was going to be 48 hours of testing before the line is handed back. How can they fit 48 hours of testing into less than a day?

I guess it depends whether they really needed 48 hours of testing or whether the testing can be done faster, I'd also assume that some of that testing time was to allow for overuns in the other work. However I am a passenger and I am assuming that those in charge of programming these works would have built in as much slack as possible.

Bearing in mind the awful weather conditions over the break, and and the amount of additional emergency work that has been done elsewhere on the network I think Network Rail deserve a pat on the back for even being in this position.

These days we are all very quick to slap down and criticise those that provide infrastructure services, but those at the front line work very hard to try and deliver the service to us and invariable are let down by the system.

Its like those complaining about not having their power reconnected quick enough. I wonder how many of those people have been having time off over the Christmas period, how many of them haven't worked through weekends, haven't been working outside in foul weather etc. The reality is that Christmas is about the only time that some people get a decent break and those providing our infrastructure should be allowed that break too. However many haven't had it, including railworkers. Good on them for working so hard to improve our service.

 

[RichardN]

Have heard that Southern have buses booked up until Sunday in case they overrun so they are prepared.

If it doesn't reopen on time tomorrow - then it will probably be the same service plan as today.

I think they'll need more buses, or the morning peak will be an epic shambles.

Of course savvy commuters with a travelcard could bail onto the fgw service to Deepdene which takes 25 mins instead of 45 for the bus and will be valid for the same reason Watford North was valid via St. Albans.

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[tsr]

Of course savvy commuters with a travelcard could bail onto the fgw service to Deepdene which takes 25 mins instead of 45 for the bus and will be valid for the same reason Watford North was valid via St. Albans.

Unfortunately, they may (depending on timings) be caught out by a fairly long wait at Dorking Main (or, vice versa, out in the cold at Deepdene!). If it works, though, it can be very useful.

 

[RJ]

I was involved with this on the 27th December as a RR bus driver. I was a standby for the Coulsdon South to Gatwick service. I sat at Redhill from 09:30 and did nothing for several hours, then was sent home early by the controller! That said, I was awaiting a mechanic for 3 hours for a fluid top up. It really didn't seem very busy at all at Redhill, but kudos should go to Southern (and FCC!) for all the planning that went in to keeping people moving.

 

[infobleep]

I guess it depends whether they really needed 48 hours of testing or whether the testing can be done faster, I'd also assume that some of that testing time was to allow for overuns in the other work. However I am a passenger and I am assuming that those in charge of programming these works would have built in as much slack as possible.

Bearing in mind the awful weather conditions over the break, and and the amount of additional emergency work that has been done elsewhere on the network I think Network Rail deserve a pat on the back for even being in this position.

These days we are all very quick to slap down and criticise those that provide infrastructure services, but those at the front line work very hard to try and deliver the service to us and invariable are let down by the system.

Its like those complaining about not having their power reconnected quick enough. I wonder how many of those people have been having time off over the Christmas period, how many of them haven't worked through weekends, haven't been working outside in foul weather etc. The reality is that Christmas is about the only time that some people get a decent break and those providing our infrastructure should be allowed that break too. However many haven't had it, including railworkers. Good on them for working so hard to improve our service.

Of course if you don't tell customers what is going on then they are likely to feel frustrated. I believe getting hold of information from the power networks wasn't easy. Someone must surely know what is going on or they couldn't do any work.

 

[ushawk]

I think they'll need more buses, or the morning peak will be an epic shambles.

Can only operate with what they have, and they have a hell of a lot of buses already.

Good thing schools arent back until Monday, as then buses would be in short supply.

Any update on how the works are going ?

 

[Class377/5]

Once the works are complete, there was going to be 48 hours of testing before the line is handed back. How can they fit 48 hours of testing into less than a day?

48hrs of testing? Sorry but that's simply not been the plan at all. The line is planned to be given back with route proving before the deadline but not days long testing when I left a few hours ago. And I've been given updates every couple of hours throughout the block.

Are you confusing Gatwick as the two blocks were back to back.

 

[DavyCrocket]

Can only operate with what they have, and they have a hell of a lot of buses already.

Good thing schools arent back until Monday, as then buses would be in short supply.

Any update on how the works are going ?

They've just told a customer on twitter that it scheduled to be normal service. As the engineering work should be finished.

So it appears they don't bother to tell their twitter people anything.

Southern really has become worse!

 

[grid56126]

Last reported as on time for hand back earlier this afternoon.

Arun Valley closed for rest of day with flood water above rail head height at Christs Hospital.

When it rains it pours.

 

[Class377]

Just a quick question if stuff isn't back to normal on Saturday (please let me know if it's better for me to post in the fares, ticketing & routeing section).

Already bought a £9.50 YP Railcard super off-peak day return St Albans-Falmer for Saturday's football. Plan was straight to Brighton on a direct, then Brighton-Falmer on the coastway line.

NR Journey Planner is now throwing me on a train to East Croydon, then to Coulsdon, bus to Three Bridges and onward on a train to Brighton.

Is there any other (faster) way to do this which would be valid? Even something a bit mad like going to Portsmouth on SWT and cutting across the coastway line?

 

[causton]

They've just told a customer on twitter that it scheduled to be normal service. As the engineering work should be finished.

So it appears they don't bother to tell their twitter people anything.

Southern really has become worse!

The advice on Twitter has been abysmal, I have seen someone I follow correct many tweets of theirs "Yes, there will be an xx17/xx47 service running tomorrow to Gatwick Airport" when there was most definitely not! Stuff like that... makes me wonder whether they're always this bad or whether the good people are on Xmas hols!

 

[Stats]

48hrs of testing? Sorry but that's simply not been the plan at all. The line is planned to be given back with route proving before the deadline but not days long testing when I left a few hours ago. And I've been given updates every couple of hours throughout the block.

Are you confusing Gatwick as the two blocks were back to back.

No, I am not confusing anything. Network Rail explicity said in their publicity that the Stoats Nest Junction was to have 48 hours of testing once completed.
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/news/2...k-Airport-and-the-south-coast-this-Christmas/

Redhill and Purley

Replacing a major junction between Redhill and Purley (Stoats Nest junction) will remove the need for speed restrictions and increase the reliability of the infrastructure.

Replacing Stoats Nest junction is a huge engineering challenge:
A total of 16 separate switches and crossings will be replaced which, if they were laid end to end, would be around one mile long - an more than 350 separate welds will be used to complete the work
Around 7,770 tonnes of spoil will be removed and be replaced with the same volume of new ballast, using around 21 trains to transport the material

Once complete, we'll carry out 48 hours of testing to check that everything is working correctly.