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Best and worst TOC names
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Whistler40145
Established Member
Apart from Class 185s, there isn't anything really special about Trans Pennine Express!
I am glad that they don't make us suffer with Class 142 Pacers!
I am glad that they don't make us suffer with Class 142 Pacers!
sprinterguy
Veteran Member
The third engine on a 185 isn't switched off all the time, only when Eco-mode kicks in when the train is coasting. 185s are massively overpowered for a three coach train, even when the enormous weight of each carriage is taken into account. Having three 750hp engines taking power all the time just isn't necessary on what is largely a sub-100mph route. The 1500hp available on just two engines is more than the power generated by a pair of 158s.
GNER was one of the best names, and they had one of the best liveries; why did they go?
C2C in my opinion is the worst name
C2C in my opinion is the worst name
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sprinterguy
Veteran Member
Because they were unable to make the ambitious premium payments to the Government that they had promised when they regained the franchise, and their parent company Sea Containers went into administration (Or something similarly disruptive to continued trading).
Whistler40145
Established Member
Can a TOC use defunct names?
e.g. Grand Central now use GNER or a similar name?
e.g. Grand Central now use GNER or a similar name?
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
If it's not still trademarked then I can't see why not.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
They can use unregistered names. Although, the name GNER has been taken by Ian Yeowart's Alliance Rail.
emoaconr
Member
The Merseyrail name would have never died anyway - Merseytravel PTE continually referred to it as "Merseyrail" all though the Arriva Trains Merseyside period. Add to that the yellow, black and grey theme... to the average user, it probably felt like nothing had changed.
But I agree Merseyrail is a strong name, as is Northern, London Midland, Great Western, Southern, CrossCountry and Scotrail.
Not too fussed on 'Arriva Trains Wales' - seeing as that name excludes the 'Borders' part of the franchise somewhat. South West /East Midlands Trains seems a bit samey in my opinion, but then again it stands for the region.
The use of "London Overground" to me seems a bit silly, as it seems to be distancing itself from NR.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Merseyrail is the name of the rail division of Merseytravel as well. That's why at stations like Rainhill you see the name Merseyrail.
MTL used the name 'Merseyrail Electrics', Serco/NedRailways registered the name Merseyrail Electrics but then added confusion by referring to their services as just Merseyrail.
junglejames
Established Member
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I cant understand what people love about the 185s so much. Yes they have their advantages, like they are usually quieter, but they seem to be lacking in seating, and to me, are pretty dam uncomfortable.
Would much rather see 175s on TPE. But hey, Alstom put paid to that.
Whistler40145
Established Member
I wonder what Adelantes would have looked like in First TransPennine livery instead of Northern?
Also, although FTPE Class 185s are uncomfortable, their ride is a lot more pleasant than a Class 142 Pacer!
Also, although FTPE Class 185s are uncomfortable, their ride is a lot more pleasant than a Class 142 Pacer!
I think there pretty good to be honest the only negative is the seats are hard and for journey's more than an hour that can be an issue but to be honest it doesn't bug me too much. Really the only change I would make to the 185s (other than wishing we could order an additional MSO) is to add maybe an inch or two of padding to the seat cushions otherwise they're pretty much perfect for the services they operate
Whistler40145
Established Member
I agree about Class 185 seat padding, unless one has a well padded backside!
Is the padding on the 185s on a par with the 444s which I find to be adequate?
I think the 185 was an improved product at the time because they made sure seats would align with windows after the voyager farce and there was adequate table provision.
Livery is hideous though. Suits FGW HSTs a lot better although I realise they are predominately painted and not vinyled.
I thought there was a severe lack of luggage space though and that they can be noisey?
Have yet to travel on one
I think the 185 was an improved product at the time because they made sure seats would align with windows after the voyager farce and there was adequate table provision.
Livery is hideous though. Suits FGW HSTs a lot better although I realise they are predominately painted and not vinyled.
I thought there was a severe lack of luggage space though and that they can be noisey?
Have yet to travel on one
Whistler40145
Established Member
I think a different shade of Blue would have made Class 185s look more appealing.
185s have standard Desiro seating so I would assume they have the same seats as can be found in 350/450/444/360 etc...
I don't think you can really compare the 185 with a Voyager they were built to meet different markets (eg 185 for airport/inter-regional/urban whilst 22x for inter-city/regional) and I'm not even sure if the Voyagers would have even been used as a comparison point as they come from different suppliers.
As for the livery I quite like it
There isn't normally an issue with luggage in my experience, nice big overhead racks and plenty of spaces for quite large suitcases and if all else fails there is plenty of room on the floor normally for luggage (assuming it isn't overcrowded) also seems to have good provision for bikes. As for noise they are no noisier than any other DMU and if you sit over the bogies then the engine nose is pretty minimal to be honest (and the ride quality doesn't suffer either).
I travel on them pretty frequently and I've never really had a complaint with them, I think they are one of the best modern DMU's around.
aspierail
Member
Top 3 worst TOC Names
One
C2C (it should really mean city to coast though)
Silverlink (more like silverstink)
One
C2C (it should really mean city to coast though)
Silverlink (more like silverstink)
WestCoast
Established Member
Sorry if it was unclear, I know the 180s are in very nice black and orange livery. I meant the purple firstgroup interior of the GC 180s which doesn't match the brand. Are there any plans to change the interior?
LexyBoy
Established Member
I think all franchises that start with 'First' should be renamed. Preferably with Abellio, DB, Arriva, NX or even UK Govt stuck infront instead
Absolutely - when I was commuting from London I was always astonished by the number of people walking through standard saying to their companions no, still first class, lets move on further. I used to see this 2-3 times a week (seriously). If anyone asked me I would say Id be pretty annoyed if Id paid for first class and got this, wouldnt you?
Imagine if there were a TOC operating the routes around the Peak District which decided to call itself Off Peak trains
Anyway, my preference is for names which sound like railway companies rather than some bizarre bit of corporatespeak i.e. Southern, Great Western, Northern, CrossCountry etc good; First Capital Connect, c2c, Arriva Transit Solutions bad.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
The only real differences between a 185 and 350/1 are:
1. the 4th carriage.
2. FC is in a different place.
3. diesel/electric traction.
The seating and doors are identical except for the colour.
Both Voyagers and 185s carry a mix of commuters/short distance travellers and long distance travellers. Very few people do end to end in a Voyager but a 185 has quite a lot of people doing end to end journeys taking 2-4 hours.
If they think standard looks anything like First, they would probably be fine sitting on the roof!
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If they think standard looks anything like First, they would probably be fine sitting on the roof!
Never travelled on an electrostar then...!
Chapeltom
Established Member
I quite like the name "Northern Rail" or "Northern" as its often called. You just think when you get a Northern train that its going to be an old 142 or 150. Despite having some of the worst trains in the country Northern do run a very good service for Northerners! 142s running the Southport to Manchester Airport service is a good one and I've seen Manchester Victoria to Blackpool North ran as a single 142! A good TOC
and one that has rarely let me down.
and one that has rarely let me down.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
If they think standard looks anything like First, they would probably be fine sitting on the roof!
170 standard class seating is probably better than the 158 FC seating that used to be on TPE.
In the north standard class quite often means:
http://airedaleandwharfedale.webs.com/142060 interior (1).JPG
or
http://airedaleandwharfedale.webs.com/142051 interior (1).jpg
GNER has to be my favourite. East Coast is fine although I did find their logo ugly, I've gotten used to it now.
I do like NXEA's legal name (London Eastern Railway), they should have used that rather than 'one'.
I think any train company that retains their franchise should be allowed to retain their name, but any new franchises should be generically branded. (i.e. if Virgin wins the West Coast they can keep using the name Virgin Trains as passengers are used to it but if anyone else wins it then they should use West Coast operated by XXX).
I do like NXEA's legal name (London Eastern Railway), they should have used that rather than 'one'.
I think any train company that retains their franchise should be allowed to retain their name, but any new franchises should be generically branded. (i.e. if Virgin wins the West Coast they can keep using the name Virgin Trains as passengers are used to it but if anyone else wins it then they should use West Coast operated by XXX).
Christ I've been on that 142 before now, it was truly terrible (and I speak as someone who doesn't mind Pacers!) there was so little legroom I actual had to sit sideways over two seats in order to fit! Thankfully it was like 06:00 so pretty empty at peak time I would have had no option but to stand.
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