Best and worst TOC names

[W-on-Sea]

One was just silly and impractical ("The 12.30 One service to Norwich...damn...left a minute earlier than they announced"), and so many of the compound names (company name + regional detail) are just too lengthy and a mouthful, but I still think Silverlink was the worst of them.

All the ideas the name conjures up are those of coming second...second-rate, second-class, second-to-best, not really up to the task....all of which (apart from the "second-to-best", which would be far far too kind) was pretty accurate in describing the run-down and vaguely intimidating atmosphere of many of their trains and stations (at least in the "metro" area), But thankfully they are no more...

I thought c2c was ludicrous when it was introduced - although it had the obvious purpose of distinguishing itself from the shambles the line had been up until then - and the excessive use of bright pink and youthful branding was kind of nauseating. But now they've kind of stopped all that (and got rid of the claim that "although it doesn't stand for anything in particular, it could stand for care to our customers").... I can let it pass. The fact that the service they provide is thoroughly excellent means that the silly name is overlooked.

But, this privately-owned company that provides a service between two particularly delightful towns in the Friuli-Venezia Giulia region of Italy has to take the biscuit as regards unfortunate acronyms (and English words that are understood universally)

http://www.ferrovieudinecividale.it/

 

[GNER 373]

c2c and ONE are the worst!

Anything with GREAT in the name are the best!

 

[Ivo]

Given my age when it was introduced, I had formerly assumed that c2c meant Capital to Coast - until c2c themselves suggested otherwise. I don't mind it as a name, but its lack of meaning lends it to potential problems with confusion... On the other hand, 'one' always was and probably always will be the worst for me. Yes, I know what it means, but couldn't, say, Northern have followed the same principles? And may I add how it is interesting how NX introduced both names, suggesting more than a hint of laziness?

On the other hand, I quite FTPE. I know it sounds like a mouthful, but it always feels like it just rolls of the tongue for me, although it would be better if the corporate prefix (i.e. "First") was done away with. No that it'll happen before renewal...

 

[Tom B]

It's pretty stupid, IMO, that so much money goes down the pan on repainting and rebranding - not just trains, but stations, staff uniforms, stationary, publicity etc... better to follow the ScotRail idea and insist on a consistent brand with perhaps a wee vinyl saying "Mis/managed by First" or the like. Many passengers still refer to old franchises and names which does say something for the effectiveness of certain brands over others ("GNER" "InterCity" "British Rail").

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I do like creative 'geographically' descriptive names like London Midland and First Great Western; Southern, Northern and Chiltern are all ones I like too. Worst? c2c, 'one', and stupidly long ones: NXEA, FTPE etc.

 

[tbtc]

Daft though c2c may have sounded, you have to appreciate that LTS had one of the worst reputations under BR, so I can see some logic in going for something completely different.

My one criticism would be TPE - I could accept First Transpennine or Transpennine Express, but it doesn't need both. The reason for calling it "express" was to differentiate it from the other "local" services, which was fair enough when it was part of BR (or part of the Northern Spirit franchise - a bit like the "Central Citylink" brand).

 

[ushawk]

I like any name which isnt really fancy and just says where they operate (SWT, SN, SE, NR, EC etc). I also think First Capital Connect is quite snappy too.

I dont really like National Express East Anglia, too long i think.

 

[tbtc]

I do like creative 'geographically' descriptive names like London Midland and First Great Western; Southern, Northern and Chiltern are all ones I like too. Worst? c2c, 'one', and stupidly long ones: NXEA, FTPE etc.

I agree with your main point, though if it's okay for First to put their name before the region they operate in (First Great Western) is that any different to National Express putting their name before the region they operate in (National Express East Anglia)?

 

[Ivo]

National Express has ten letters and four syllables more than First remember It seems like the corporate name is the dominant factor, not the TOC specific name. And given how often the "East Anglia" bit is skipped, it seems like NX are too self-important.

 

[GarethW]

South West Trains is a reasonable name apart from the obvious fact that we aren't in the South West (apart from a tiddly bit trickling into Exeter).

 

[tom1649]

Arriva Trains Merseyside was a poor replacement for such a strong brand as Merseyrail Electrics. Fortunately Merseytravel, the PTE kept all its own branding and literature with the Merseyrail name during that period.

At least we don't have Arriva Trains Crosscountry, what a mouthful.

 

[starrymarkb]

TBF Stagecoach have kept the BR Shadow TOC name, they did try Stagecoach South West Trains for a bit just after privatisation but dropped it fairly quickly (was still visible on some signage) - They kept the Shadow logo for the first few years too, before launching a redesign in 1999 where they launched the swoops that then spread to the buses. Mind you for the first couple of years they were awful, so the logo might have been a clean break with the turn around of the company

 

[Minilad]

My favourite TOC name ?
Simple really. BRITISH RAIL

 

[Zoe]

South West Trains is a reasonable name apart from the obvious fact that we aren't in the South West (apart from a tiddly bit trickling into Exeter).

But they do cover the South Western division of the former Southern Region of BR.

 

[tbtc]

National Express has ten letters and four syllables more than First remember It seems like the corporate name is the dominant factor, not the TOC specific name. And given how often the "East Anglia" bit is skipped, it seems like NX are too self-important.

It's more of a mouthful, yes, but no more/less corporate than Arriva Trains Wales, First Great Western etc

 

[WillPS]

* Northern services to Stoke-on-Trent and Nottingham.
* So many of EMT services serve Sheffield which is not in the East Midlands.

The start of the North depends on your perception of the Midlands. Those in Yorkshire consider me Southern for coming from Nottingham, yet when I went for a job in London I was considered very Northern.

Two East Midlands Trains services call at Sheffield, three if you count the Stopper and Express London services separately (I don't). There are many many more Northern services.

 

[starrymarkb]

But, this privately-owned company that provides a service between two particularly delightful towns in the Friuli-Venezia Giulia region of Italy has to take the biscuit as regards unfortunate acronyms (and English words that are understood universally)

http://www.ferrovieudinecividale.it/

There is also FART in Switzerland. I was always fond of BOB in the valleys south of Interlaken

 

[tbtc]

The start of the North depends on your perception of the Midlands. Those in Yorkshire consider me Southern for coming from Nottingham, yet when I went for a job in London I was considered very Northern.

Two East Midlands Trains services call at Sheffield, three if you count the Stopper and Express London services separately (I don't). There are many many more Northern services.

I suppose you could argue that East Midlands Trains is the link from Sheffield to the East Midlands in the way that East Midlands Trains is the link from London to the East Midlands. Depends how pedantic we get about things (e.g. Hull Trains don't just serve Hull!)...

 

[OxtedL]

Southern is a successful name, and quite a decent one I think.
South central...well...

 

[junglejames]

The name Virgin came from where Richard Branson was when he came with the idea of setting up his own company (the Virgin Islands.)



Names like that always misfit some routes:
* ATW running Crewe-Chester and then Manchester-Cardiff and beyond does over 100 miles in England before it gets to Wales.
* Northern services to Stoke-on-Trent and Nottingham.
* So many of EMT services serve Sheffield which is not in the East Midlands.

Thats not the reason it was called Virgin. It wasnt actually RB that came up with it. Somebody suggested it because they were all virgins in business.

 

[90019]

But, this privately-owned company that provides a service between two particularly delightful towns in the Friuli-Venezia Giulia region of Italy has to take the biscuit as regards unfortunate acronyms (and English words that are understood universally)

http://www.ferrovieudinecividale.it/

That's nothing on this one;
Ferrovie autolinee regionali ticinesi



Edit: Damn, just noticed starrymarkb beat me to it.

 

[BestWestern]

Surely one of the worst TOC branding decisions was to rename Thameslink. That was a fairly universal name which many users and others living in the areas it served recognised and understood. First's insistance on Corporatism shows up the worst elements of the current system. Those stations including Thameslink in their names eneded up making no sense whatsoever. I'm suprised the DfT allowed that change of identity to happen TBH. Combined with the fleet of 319's running in half a dozen different liveries, FCC must have ended up with a bit of an identity crisis!

 

[Whistler40145]

I think they got it completely wrong when BR was privatised.

1 Instead of e.g. Virgin Trains, each TOC running High Speed services should have been branded 'InterCity West Coast' etc.

2 Local services under each TOC should have been branded e.g. 'Midland Regional'

3 Several liveries would have been sufficient, InterCity with Silver Swallow, local/medium distance trains would have been Regional Railways or BR Blue & Grey or in London area, NSE should have been a livery

4 A simple transfer e.g. Virgin Trains next to InterCity branding would have been sufficient. Also, what 'normal' cares whether their Dundee to Penzance train is called CrossCountry Trains, they can work that out for themselves!

 

[MCR247]

So will it be 'West Coast' operated by Virgin Trains? (of course if Virgin get the franchise)

Do you reckon they will be able to keep the branding on the train ends, with operated by Virgin on the other coaches? IMO, the franchise should have a base colour, which the TOC can have a logo (like VT) at the ends of the trains, with operated by xxx (all vinyls) and also they should be able to add vinyls to the doors (stripey anyone )

 

[Blindtraveler]

Surely one of the worst TOC branding decisions was to rename Thameslink. That was a fairly universal name which many users and others living in the areas it served recognised and understood. First's insistance on Corporatism shows up the worst elements of the current system. Those stations including Thameslink in their names eneded up making no sense whatsoever. I'm suprised the DfT allowed that change of identity to happen TBH. Combined with the fleet of 319's running in half a dozen different liveries, FCC must have ended up with a bit of an identity crisis!

and the city flyer or city metro brands were an idiot proofe way of identifying fast and slow services. Think more toc names should be simple and easy but with sub brands e.g southeasten high speed, central citylink etc used to identify particular services/products/routes etc. There are many that could be used today:

crosscountry air connect for there stansted - birmingham services which start at 1 airport and connect with just 1 change of train with 2 others. Thats just one example.

As to actual toc names, anything with ariva in it fils me with dread. Xc could be alrite if it wasnt an ariva product too! FTPE is to long, same with capital connect etc. As said above, a nice simple area descriptive name is my favourite. Whether NX keep it or not, i think c2c should be renamed something like essex connect, oh and reintroduce Thameslink!

As for the future, if virgin rail group were to win greater westen, I look forward to hearing 'virgin super pacer' in announcements!

 

[northwichcat]

The start of the North depends on your perception of the Midlands. Those in Yorkshire consider me Southern for coming from Nottingham, yet when I went for a job in London I was considered very Northern.

Political regions show the North West/West Midlands boundary to be between Nantwich and Whitchurch and the Yorkshire/East Midlands to be between Sheffield and Chesterfield.

Yes Chesterfield is further north than Nantwich but then the Scotland boundary is a diagonal line, so that's fairly logical.

Two East Midlands Trains services call at Sheffield, three if you count the Stopper and Express London services separately (I don't). There are many many more Northern services.

Other than St Pancras are there any stations with more EMT services calling at it than Sheffield with 2 trains from London every hour, 2 trains to London every hour, one train from Liverpool to Norwich every hour and one train from Norwich to Liverpool every hour i.e. 6 per hour in total.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Leicester - 4tph to London, 4tph from London, 1tph to Lincoln, 1tph from Lincoln

 

[northwichcat]

Thats not the reason it was called Virgin. It wasnt actually RB that came up with it. Somebody suggested it because they were all virgins in business.

Richard Branson himself has said in interviews that the name originated because he was delayed on a return flight from the Virgin Islands when he came up with the idea of setting up his own airline.

Your suggestion seems to originate from an unreferenced claim on Wikipedia.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

(e.g. Hull Trains don't just serve Hull!)...

All of Hull Trains services do go to Hull though.

 

[tbtc]

All of Hull Trains services do go to Hull though

Yes, and all East Midlands services go to/from the East Midlands...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Surely one of the worst TOC branding decisions was to rename Thameslink. That was a fairly universal name which many users and others living in the areas it served recognised and understood. First's insistance on Corporatism shows up the worst elements of the current system. Those stations including Thameslink in their names eneded up making no sense whatsoever. I'm suprised the DfT allowed that change of identity to happen TBH. Combined with the fleet of 319's running in half a dozen different liveries, FCC must have ended up with a bit of an identity crisis!

If it were just a new franchise taking over the Bedford - Brighton service (plus the Wimbledon/Sutton "loop") I'd agree with you.

However, FCC did take over the Great Northern part of WAGN. Calling services from Kings Cross (high level)/Moorgate to Welwyn/Peterborough/Cambridge "Thameslink" would have confused things.

Similarly, when Stagecoach took over from Midland Mainline they didn't just take over the "mainline" route, so needed a name that covered more of the region.

Personally I'd rather franchises were operationally efficient rather than worried about geographic boundaries. For example, it made sense for North Western Trains/ First North Western to run the Manchester - Llandudno service, rather than having an artificial "Wales & Borders" franchise. If a result of this is that some stations are served by TOCs that sound like they serve a different part of the country then that seems a trivial price to pay.

 

[me123]

I've always thought that "First Capital Connect" wasn't a great name. It doesn't really tell you where it operates, whereas most other London operators give you a clue. Besides, it sounds a bit silly. One and c2c are/were just awful. Having said that, I think "Virgin Trains" works well, but that's largely because people know the brand and they know where Virgin goes. Still, renaming the franchise "West Coast" would be a step in the right direction!

I like the simple ones the best. Scotrail is a classic name, as is Crosscountry. They do exactly what they say on the tin. I like Northern, Southern and East Coast as well. Short, catchy, and easy to understand the kind of area they serve.