Best and worst TOC names

[shinkansen1966]

Anything with a brand name in it.

Trains are a public service offering a product. Get ride of 'First.... ' or 'Virgin' or 'C2C' or 'Arriva'. They mean nothing and add nothing to the rail journey.

 

[northwichcat]

Christ I've been on that 142 before now, it was truly terrible (and I speak as someone who doesn't mind Pacers!) there was so little legroom I actual had to sit sideways over two seats in order to fit! Thankfully it was like 06:00 so pretty empty at peak time I would have had no option but to stand.

I think there's around 12 142s like that. I once sat next to the window on a 3 seater and two schoolgirls got on and took up the other two seats. When the conductor came along to check tickets I had to stand up to put my hand in my jacket pocket to make sure I didn't elbow one of the girls accidentally.

Now imagine it wasn't a 'still growing' school kid next to me but someone like Eric Pickles or John Prescott.

 

[PR1Berske]

I quite like the name "Northern Rail" or "Northern" as its often called. You just think when you get a Northern train that its going to be an old 142 or 150. Despite having some of the worst trains in the country Northern do run a very good service for Northerners! 142s running the Southport to Manchester Airport service is a good one and I've seen Manchester Victoria to Blackpool North ran as a single 142! A good TOC
and one that has rarely let me down.

Talk about exceptions proving rules! Northern aren't without some (serious) faults.

I have to say I will miss the rather plush way I commute into Leyland every weekday morning

 

[Whistler40145]

HST Power, sounds like a train in Asia!

 

[Whistler40145]

jcollins, I wonder how many years Northern will be stuck with Class 142 Pacers & which unfortunate area will be lumbered with them!

 

[northwichcat]

jcollins, I wonder how many years Northern will be stuck with Class 142 Pacers & which unfortunate area will be lumbered with them!

Under disability law passed in 1995 Pacers can't be used beyond 2019 in their current form and it isn't economically viable to rebuild them.

If Secro/Abellio are awarded the next 'Northern' franchise then I can see Newton Heath continuing to be 'Pacer haven' and maybe even have all the 142s with the 144s replacing 142s at Heaton. IF Pacers start to be withdrawn between before 2018 I wouldn't be surprised if Newton Heath houses all remaining 142s in the country.

IF we get a LM style franchise not operated by Northern Rail it might be that the North West actually gets some nice new trains as direct replacement for 142s and 150s.

 

[TDK]

As mentioned previously, this is the way all future franchises will be operated (as they are replaced or renewed)
Equally, First Group will have to drop the "First" from many of its franchise names

This will greatly devalue their franchises
It has already been suggested that if the West Coast franchise is renewed to Virgin Rail Group, the loss of "Virgin Trains" logos could be worth as much as £500,000 to the DfT, plus the outgoing TOC has to pay for these logos to be removed

Have you a link to this information as I haven't seen it anywhere where the Francisee has to drop their brand names from their trains and stations

 

[northwichcat]

Have you a link to this information as I haven't seen it anywhere where the Francisee has to drop their brand names from their trains and stations

Most of the former First North Western station signs remained after Northern took over and in the first instance Northern stickers were placed over the top of First North Western.

 

[WestCoast]

Most of the former First North Western station signs remained after Northern took over and in the first instance Northern stickers were placed over the top of First North Western.

I think TDK may have been referring to 'literature' surrounding the dropping of brand names for future franchises (e.g Virgin perhaps becoming West Coast).

 

[Whistler40145]

Considering that by their due withdrawal date, several routes currently booked for a Class 142 are being electrified, so will this determine whether they are based at Newton Heath?

 

[HST Power]

HST Power, sounds like a train in Asia!

I take it you mean my comment about sitting on the roof?

It's incredible in India. You go on a bus, on a train or in a taxi, and there are more people on the roof than there are in the vehicle itself!

 

[Whistler40145]

I certainly do HST Power, glad it doesn't happen in the UK!

 

[HST Power]

I certainly do, glad it doesn't happen in the UK!

I've yet to see any benefit of FCC's extra seats so it could happen!

 

[Chapeltom]

Talk about exceptions proving rules! Northern aren't without some (serious) faults.

I have to say I will miss the rather plush way I commute into Leyland every weekday morning

I'm going to look forward to my 100 mile commute into Uni from September onwards. That'll compose of a mix of Northern and East Midlands Trains, depending on which local station I use! It'll be a mix of 142s, 150s and 156s with a good old 158 chucked for the Stockport/Manchester to Warrington leg.

 

[sprinterguy]

Under disability law passed in 1995 Pacers can't be used beyond 2019 in their current form and it isn't economically viable to rebuild them.

If Secro/Abellio are awarded the next 'Northern' franchise then I can see Newton Heath continuing to be 'Pacer haven' and maybe even have all the 142s with the 144s replacing 142s at Heaton. IF Pacers start to be withdrawn between before 2018 I wouldn't be surprised if Newton Heath houses all remaining 142s in the country.

IF we get a LM style franchise not operated by Northern Rail it might be that the North West actually gets some nice new trains as direct replacement for 142s and 150s.

It’ll be up to the DfT to decide whether to let the new Northern franchise as a “growth” or “no growth” franchise, irrelevant of who operates it. I dearly hope it will be let as a growth franchise, and I would be interested to see how the “safe pair of hands” that is the Serco/Abellio conglomerate would handle such a franchise and deal with the development of a new rolling stock fleet.

144s maintained at Heaton sounds like a nice idea. It would be fantastic to see some three carriage Pacers operating in the Tyne-Tees area. I feel that that is as close as the area is likely to get to the proposed capacity enhancements mentioned in the East Coast RUS.

 

[paulravuslante]

First Great Western Link always felt like a cop out name to me. Thames Trains was much better. But seeing as it was going to be merged into First Great Western anyway, I suppose it got people used to the name.

Valley Lines was a brand name was good as it was simply a continuation of the BR branding and even today, I'm sure that people still refer to the local routes around Cardiff as the Valley Lines. ATW speak refers to these lines as Valleys and Cardiff Local Routes, which is rather cumbersome but geographically accurate I suppose.

Wessex Trains also sounded good.