ATW stock allocation questions

[ValleyLines142]

If there 8 x 153s for 7 Diagrams and 2 are out of service, something has to give. Don't hold your breath yet.

Well I'm just happy a 153 isn't on the City Line anymore. It was frankly ridiculous.

 

[craigybagel]

Can you suggest somewhere better to put the 153's that are currently on the city line?

 

[ValleyLines142]

Can you suggest somewhere better to put the 153's that are currently on the city line?

Strengthening other services.

The issue with the 153 that was on the City Line was that it was on the diagram that was probably the busiest on the line, if that makes sense? For example it worked the 0804 Radyr to Coryton which was full and standing. Also boarding times are longer as there's only one door at each end. If it had worked an earlier diagram then it would have made sense but it was just sod's law that it was on the busiest diagram. I regularly missed connecting trains because it couldn't keep to its timings.

Apparently it was swapped because a Pacer was required on the Fishguard Line. Sorry but how can a branch line in West Wales with about six trains a day be busier than a half-hourly commuter line into the Welsh capital?

 

[PHILIPE]

Strengthening other services.

The issue with the 153 that was on the City Line was that it was on the diagram that was probably the busiest on the line, if that makes sense? For example it worked the 0804 Radyr to Coryton which was full and standing. Also boarding times are longer as there's only one door at each end. If it had worked an earlier diagram then it would have made sense but it was just sod's law that it was on the busiest diagram. I regularly missed connecting trains because it couldn't keep to its timings.

Apparently it was swapped because a Pacer was required on the Fishguard Line. Sorry but how can a branch line in West Wales with about six trains a day be busier than a half-hourly commuter line into the Welsh capital?

No not for the Fishguards, but to provide 2 carriages on Pembroke Docks. The Fishguards were covered by juggling with and fitting in existing diagrams.

 

[Philip]

Just a thought involving diagram: 04:54 Crewe-Milford Haven, 11:10 Milford Haven-Manchester, 17:35 Manchester-Cardiff, 21:17 Cardiff-Chester

Would this be an appropriate diagram for another loco-hauled service, in fact would it be more logical than the current LHCS diagrams? The 04:54 Milford Haven is a big commuter service for people south of Shrewsbury going to work in Cardiff as it arrives there around 8am and also for people who work in Swansea arriving an hour later. Later on the 17:35 out of Manchester goes without saying for people going home. It shouldn't be too difficult starting and finishing the diagram at Crewe as the current LHCS does.

 

[ValleyLines142]

My worst nightmare!!! Got a 150 all the way to Manchester on the 0540 from Cardiff!!

Just a thought involving diagram: 04:54 Crewe-Milford Haven, 11:10 Milford Haven-Manchester, 17:35 Manchester-Cardiff, 21:17 Cardiff-Chester

Would this be an appropriate diagram for another loco-hauled service, in fact would it be more logical than the current LHCS diagrams? The 04:54 Milford Haven is a big commuter service for people south of Shrewsbury going to work in Cardiff as it arrives there around 8am and also for people who work in Swansea arriving an hour later. Later on the 17:35 out of Manchester goes without saying for people going home. It shouldn't be too difficult starting and finishing the diagram at Crewe as the current LHCS does.

To be fair, the 0454 Crewe to Milford Haven isn't that bad. It's fairly busy but not to the point where it is full and standing.

As for the 1730 off Manchester, I can't comment on that but I would have thought most people would only be going to Crewe and Shrewsbury, the former of which has plenty of other options available anyway

But regardless of the reasoning, an LHCS diagram to Manchester would be quite good, especially with first class, plug sockets and free wifi

No not for the Fishguards, but to provide 2 carriages on Pembroke Docks. The Fishguards were covered by juggling with and fitting in existing diagrams.

Ah yes, knew it was one of the two Pembrokeshire lines. Still, the same principal applies and it was ridiculous.

 

[merlodlliw]

Just a thought involving diagram: 04:54 Crewe-Milford Haven, 11:10 Milford Haven-Manchester, 17:35 Manchester-Cardiff, 21:17 Cardiff-Chester

Would this be an appropriate diagram for another loco-hauled service, in fact would it be more logical than the current LHCS diagrams? The 04:54 Milford Haven is a big commuter service for people south of Shrewsbury going to work in Cardiff as it arrives there around 8am and also for people who work in Swansea arriving an hour later. Later on the 17:35 out of Manchester goes without saying for people going home. It shouldn't be too difficult starting and finishing the diagram at Crewe as the current LHCS does.

I would agree the Holyhead/Cardiff LHS could be better used elsewhere ,this seven hour downtime in Canton needs sorting out, has for the Crewe based
LHS, its key run is 0738 Chester/Manchester where the passengers are.

I read in the threads the Friday only extension to Pwhelli late evening,is this five days a week or remaining Friday only.The Minister if I recall only mentioned Friday?

 

[berneyarms]

I would agree the Holyhead/Cardiff LHS could be better used elsewhere ,this seven hour downtime in Canton needs sorting out, has for the Crewe based
LHS, its key run is 0738 Chester/Manchester where the passengers are.

I read in the threads the Friday only extension to Pwhelli late evening,is this five days a week or remaining Friday only.The Minister if I recall only mentioned Friday?

It's every day, Monday-Saturday.

Given that there are now going to be two sets overnighting at Pwllheli each night, it needs to operate every day, otherwise the sets wouldn't balance out.

 

[Gareth Marston]

It's every day, Monday-Saturday.

Given that there are now going to be two sets overnighting at Pwllheli each night, it needs to operate every day, otherwise the sets wouldn't balance out.

Yes it's all week, the 0500 ish Mach to Pwllheli lis withdrawn and the 0735 ish Pwllheli to BHM INTL is formed with a unit that stables overnight.

 

[quarella]

Strengthening other services.

Apparently it was swapped because a Pacer was required on the Fishguard Line. Sorry but how can a branch line in West Wales with about six trains a day be busier than a half-hourly commuter line into the Welsh capital?

Because there are only six trains a day with limited alternative transport options.

 

[Delta558]

Ah yes, knew it was one of the two Pembrokeshire lines. Still, the same principal applies and it was ridiculous.

Not so ridiculous when the 153 on the Pembroke Dock branch is full and standing by Tenby and you have to leave people behind quite frequently, causing them to wait for two hours for the next service, with no guarantee that that one would be any better. That used to happen regularly over the summer and other holiday periods (a large part of the reason for 150s being diagrammed down there over the last few years).

At least as you admit, on the City Line it's only a half hour wait which, whilst not perfect by any standard, is better than two hours.

 

[craigybagel]

Especially given that for most of the day the city line carries around fresh air, it doesn't need more than a 153. There is one of the 3 diagrams that can't use a 153 because it travels beyond Radyr at one part of the day and 153s aren't cleared up there.

The diagram with the 0454 and 1730 departure departures is very busy and at times an extra carriage would be nice, but it would require large scale crew training to run it with the loco and stock. At present, there'd be no guards to take it north of crewe or west of Cardiff, and I'm not entirely sure if the link of Cardiff drivers that sign it also sign Millford haven. The beauty of the new diagram in North Wales is that it can be worked by the limited crews that are already trained on it.

 

[merlodlliw]

It's every day, Monday-Saturday.

Given that there are now going to be two sets overnighting at Pwllheli each night, it needs to operate every day, otherwise the sets wouldn't balance out.

Thank You
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Yes it's all week, the 0500 ish Mach to Pwllheli lis withdrawn and the 0735 ish Pwllheli to BHM INTL is formed with a unit that stables overnight.

So gain one lose one,however the 0500 dawn patrol must be quiet.

The 0747 was on the agenda last Monday when my AM Aled Roberts met the Minister for the monthly meeting they hold.
I understand the Minister has asked ATW to resolve the matter and report back.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Thank You
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


So gain one lose one,however the 0500 dawn patrol must be quiet.

The 0747 was on the agenda last Monday when my AM Aled Roberts met the Minister for the monthly meeting they hold.
I understand the Minister has asked ATW to resolve the matter and report back.

Pwllheli Town Council have objected as there's no arrival into there until 0930. I suspect you could get a Pwllheli to Porthmadog return run in with the unit that forms the 0738.

The Ministers also said the May tt on the Cambrian is all go see http://shrewsburyaberystwythrailway.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/RAILMINUTESFEB2015.pdf

 

[Phil from Mon]

Thanks for the link Gareth. Do you have any idea what the scope of the proposed survey on the North Coast noted in the minutes, is?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Thanks for the link Gareth. Do you have any idea what the scope of the proposed survey on the North Coast noted in the minutes, is?

I'll find out Phil.
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The Town Clerk from Welshpool Robert Eobinson didn't elaborate much further though it seems to be the Ministers idea, My hunch is that she wants someone from Outside North Wales to do it so as not to be biased toward any particular outcome. The obvious point being more trains to Cardiff (which WG seem to be set on) or more trains to Liverpool and Manchester, Birmingham which is what locally a lot are calling for. My source got the impression there's a pot of money promised for this survey.

 

[Phil from Mon]

Great, many thanks Gareth

 

[ValleyLines142]

Not so ridiculous when the 153 on the Pembroke Dock branch is full and standing by Tenby and you have to leave people behind quite frequently, causing them to wait for two hours for the next service, with no guarantee that that one would be any better. That used to happen regularly over the summer and other holiday periods (a large part of the reason for 150s being diagrammed down there over the last few years).

At least as you admit, on the City Line it's only a half hour wait which, whilst not perfect by any standard, is better than two hours.

I agree entirely but at this time of the year the Pembroke Dock Line isn't exactly going to be as full as a 5.30pm service out of Waterloo is it?

It's annoying from a passenger's point of view, as the likelihood is that whilst I'm wedged on a single 153 on a peak hour service into Cardiff, there's probably a Pacer with about a dozen people on it on the PD Line.

But anyway, a 153 is now back on the diagram. I avoided it and got 2C09 instead, which was 142073.

The diagram with the 0454 and 1730 departure departures is very busy and at times an extra carriage would be nice, but it would require large scale crew training to run it with the loco and stock. At present, there'd be no guards to take it north of crewe or west of Cardiff, and I'm not entirely sure if the link of Cardiff drivers that sign it also sign Millford haven. The beauty of the new diagram in North Wales is that it can be worked by the limited crews that are already trained on it.

I appreciate your view but I've seen busier services. The 1739 Cardiff to Milford Haven for example (3 car 175 rammed to the rafters).

Unfortunately, as with many other TOCs, there's a national shortage of stock and you will find that all services will be busy. There is just no way to completely clear the problem.

 

[PHILIPE]

It appears, Dan, that you are having a gripe about a train that YOU travel on regularly for a short distance. This is probably the only overcrowded work in the unit's days work. Many trains, and which travel further distances, are also overcrowded on a regular basis and many people appreciate that due to a national shortage of stock they just have to grin and bear it. As for Pembroke Docks they may not be so busy at this time of the year on the Branch, but they are still busy between Swansea and Carmarthen. 2 Coaches replaced 153s for a good reason.

 

[Greenback]

I agree with Phillipe. Every PD service I've caught has been very busy west of Carmarthen, and they can also be busy on the branch itself, though not so much at this time of year.

In an ideal world we would have 153's on the City Line, but it's a relatively short journey and where compromises have to be made it's logical to choose a short route rather than a longer one.

 

[ValleyLines142]

It appears, Dan, that you are having a gripe about a train that YOU travel on regularly for a short distance. This is probably the only overcrowded work in the unit's days work. Many trains, and which travel further distances, are also overcrowded on a regular basis and many people appreciate that due to a national shortage of stock they just have to grin and bear it. As for Pembroke Docks they may not be so busy at this time of the year on the Branch, but they are still busy between Swansea and Carmarthen. 2 Coaches replaced 153s for a good reason.

I agree with Philipe. Every PD service I've caught has been very busy west of Carmarthen, and they can also be busy on the branch itself, though not so much at this time of year.

In an ideal world we would have 153's on the City Line, but it's a relatively short journey and where compromises have to be made it's logical to choose a short route rather than a longer one.

The issue isn't so much the overcrowding; to be fair the journey time between Waun-Gron Park and Cardiff is only a mere eight minutes, so it's not a major problem despite having a small spell of sciatica, but the 153s struggle to keep to the fairly tight timings on the City Line (as with most of the other Valley Lines), and boarding/alighting times are slower because there is only one door at each end.

When you've got a 6 minute connection at Central and the City Line is late, it isn't good. This morning I had a 142 and I made the connection perfectly.

 

[Philip]

The 17:39 is the 14:34 off Manchester isn't it? I remember this going from a booked 3-car unit to a booked 2-car unit a few years ago.

 

[craigybagel]

I agree entirely but at this time of the year the Pembroke Dock Line isn't exactly going to be as full as a 5.30pm service out of Waterloo is it?

Neither is the city line. But the city line is the only route mentioned here where very few people will be standing for more than 5 minutes,and even then only on one train a day if a 153 is provided!

I appreciate your view but I've seen busier services. The 1739 Cardiff to Milford Haven for example (3 car 175 rammed to the rafters).

Unfortunately, as with many other TOCs, there's a national shortage of stock and you will find that all services will be busy. There is just no way to completely clear the problem.

I'm well aware of that fact. If you read my post properly you'd see that I was merely agreeing that a particular service mentioned was busy. Other services are too including the one you mention above. However, the point I was making is that simply changing a diagram over to loco hauled would be difficult, (with the exception of the change that has aready been made in north Wales), due to the amount of crew training that would be required.

 

[Delta558]

I agree entirely but at this time of the year the Pembroke Dock Line isn't exactly going to be as full as a 5.30pm service out of Waterloo is it?

The Pembroke Dock services generally start at Swansea and are a connection for passengers arriving there on FGW services from Paddington and travelling west. Throughout the day, you can get high passenger loadings between Swansea and Carmarthen on these trains throughout the year and 153s could not cope with it.

 

[ValleyLines142]

The 17:39 is the 14:34 off Manchester isn't it? I remember this going from a booked 3-car unit to a booked 2-car unit a few years ago.

1430 yes.

It was booked for a 2-car 175 but it is now a 3-car 175.

Neither is the city line. But the city line is the only route mentioned here where very few people will be standing for more than 5 minutes,and even then only on one train a day if a 153 is provided!

If you had read MY post properly you'd see I was referring to boarding times, not crowding.

I'm well aware of that fact. If you read my post properly you'd see that I was merely agreeing that a particular service mentioned was busy. Other services are too including the one you mention above. However, the point I was making is that simply changing a diagram over to loco hauled would be difficult, (with the exception of the change that has aready been made in north Wales), due to the amount of crew training that would be required.

If you're aware then that's the end of the matter.

 

[PHILIPE]

I agree entirely but at this time of the year the Pembroke Dock Line isn't exactly going to be as full as a 5.30pm service out of Waterloo is it?

It's annoying from a passenger's point of view, as the likelihood is that whilst I'm wedged on a single 153 on a peak hour service into Cardiff, there's probably a Pacer with about a dozen people on it on the PD Line.

Pembroke Dock was initially changed to Pacers to replace 153s, but subsequently changed to 150s.
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175108 working Manchester LHCS today. Many short formed (2 vice 3) on Marches today said due lack of serviceable sets. (also 175108 N/A for 175 work)

 

[Gareth Marston]

I agree entirely but at this time of the year the Pembroke Dock Line isn't exactly going to be as full as a 5.30pm service out of Waterloo is it?

It's annoying from a passenger's point of view, as the likelihood is that whilst I'm wedged on a single 153 on a peak hour service into Cardiff, there's probably a Pacer with about a dozen people on it on the PD Line.

Pembroke Dock was initially changed to Pacers to replace 153s, but subsequently changed to 150s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
175108 working Manchester LHCS today. Many short formed (2 vice 3) on Marches today said due lack of serviceable sets. (also 175108 N/A for 175 work)[/QUOTE]

Had a rattle on 150285 on a Manchester train between Rhyl and Chester today, 3 car 175 on crewe to Chester shuttle.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Had a rattle on 150285 on a Manchester train between Rhyl and Chester today, 3 car 175 on crewe to Chester shuttle.

Now that's a complete waste of resources!

 

[merlodlliw]

I agree entirely but at this time of the year the Pembroke Dock Line isn't exactly going to be as full as a 5.30pm service out of Waterloo is it?

It's annoying from a passenger's point of view, as the likelihood is that whilst I'm wedged on a single 153 on a peak hour service into Cardiff, there's probably a Pacer with about a dozen people on it on the PD Line.

Pembroke Dock was initially changed to Pacers to replace 153s, but subsequently changed to 150s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
175108 working Manchester LHCS today. Many short formed (2 vice 3) on Marches today said due lack of serviceable sets. (also 175108 N/A for 175 work)

Any idea why the loco hailed was pulled today. I presume 175108 was the standby.
Putting a three car 175 on the Crewe/Chester shuttle,early afternoon,says it all.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Any idea why the loco hailed was pulled today. I presume 175108 was the standby.
Putting a three car 175 on the Crewe/Chester shuttle,early afternoon,says it all.

1320 Cardiff to Holyhead was a 158. I got on 1409 BHM INTL to Aberystwyth/Pwllheli at Shrewsbury to be turfed out straight away for unit swop with 1330 ex ABR fully expecting it to be 2 car mighty relieved when 4 hoved into view. Thank god it was a Wednesday afternoon in term time February I've seen this in summer and it's carnage at Shrewsbury when they do it.