ATW stock allocation questions

[craigybagel]

Had a rattle on 150285 on a Manchester train between Rhyl and Chester today, 3 car 175 on crewe to Chester shuttle.

Now that's a complete waste of resources!

Any idea why the loco hailed was pulled today. I presume 175108 was the standby.
Putting a three car 175 on the Crewe/Chester shuttle,early afternoon,says it all.

Normally this happens when a 175 develops a fault and needs to be taken out of service at Chester. If no spare units are available the 150 from the shuttle is used, with the shuttle cancelled in the meantime. Later on a 175 might become available in which case it goes on the shuttle until the 150 gets back to Chester/Crewe and then they can swap.

I'm not saying that's definitely what happened today, but its more likely than ATW mixing up the diagrams today just for the sake of it.

 

[Greenback]

There's usually a good reason for things like that happening. However a TOC might improve at running their services, I don't think any would deliberately swap diagrams just to annoy passengers. As with the explanation above, it's usually the best that can be done in a particular set of circumstances.

 

[Welshman]

Had a rattle on 150285 on a Manchester train between Rhyl and Chester today, 3 car 175 on crewe to Chester shuttle.

The 0712 Chester to Manchester Pic. is usually 2x158. This forms the 0850 return, where the front set goes fast to Llandudno Junction and Holyhead, and the rear set forms a stopping service to Llandudno. That rear set stays on the Llandudno-Manchesters for the rest of the day.

Occasionally, that rear set is a 150 rather than a 158, and I suspect it was this that you had the misfortune of boarding later in the diagram.

 

[PHILIPE]

It's usually a case of what's in the right place at the right time if something fails. The 175 might have been available at short notice after being "stopped" on the Depot.

Oh. Manchester LHCS is 175 again today due 67001 failing on Depot at Crewe with CDL fault.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
67001 and coaches took over 1H89 15 01 Holyhead to Manchester from Chester.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The 0712 Chester to Manchester Pic. is usually 2x158. This forms the 0850 return, where the front set goes fast to Llandudno Junction and Holyhead, and the rear set forms a stopping service to Llandudno. That rear set stays on the Llandudno-Manchesters for the rest of the day.

Occasionally, that rear set is a 150 rather than a 158, and I suspect it was this that you had the misfortune of boarding later in the diagram.

I split my tickets the 30 mile Rhyl to Chester leg being the most expensive @ £16.10. The 2 car 175 I had up to Rhyl was ok if a little overcrowded between Wrexham and Chester. My £12.10 Shrewsbury to Chester Any Permitted was better value, the 42 miles from Shrewsbury to Chester was on a 2 car 175 but I came back via the slightly longer route via Crewe using a 3 car then a 2 car 175.
The 33 mile leg from Newtown to Shrewsbury was of course the best value as I used my Cambrian railcard to pay £5.40.

Is paying nearly 30p a mile for class 150 haulage fair? £8.05 /30.

 

[PHILIPE]

I split my tickets the 30 mile Rhyl to Chester leg being the most expensive @ £16.10. The 2 car 175 I had up to Rhyl was ok if a little overcrowded between Wrexham and Chester. My £12.10 Shrewsbury to Chester Any Permitted was better value, the 42 miles from Shrewsbury to Chester was on a 2 car 175 but I came back via the slightly longer route via Crewe using a 3 car then a 2 car 175.
The 33 mile leg from Newtown to Shrewsbury was of course the best value as I used my Cambrian railcard to pay £5.40.

Is paying nearly 30p a mile for class 150 haulage fair? £8.05 /30.

It's not supposed to be a 150 and was obviously due to no 158 being available.
One can't change the fare structure if the booked class is replaced by another.

 

[Robertj21a]

I split my tickets the 30 mile Rhyl to Chester leg being the most expensive @ £16.10. The 2 car 175 I had up to Rhyl was ok if a little overcrowded between Wrexham and Chester. My £12.10 Shrewsbury to Chester Any Permitted was better value, the 42 miles from Shrewsbury to Chester was on a 2 car 175 but I came back via the slightly longer route via Crewe using a 3 car then a 2 car 175.
The 33 mile leg from Newtown to Shrewsbury was of course the best value as I used my Cambrian railcard to pay £5.40.

Is paying nearly 30p a mile for class 150 haulage fair? £8.05 /30.

Sounds quite fair to me for that distance. I doubt that many companies (or their passengers) would see much point in trying to charge by the type of train operated on a 'standard' service.

 

[Philip]

175s used to replace 158s on Chester-Birmingham diagrams every now and then. I'm guessing this was also because of a diagram messing up because of a unit failure?

 

[PHILIPE]

175s used to replace 158s on Chester-Birmingham diagrams every now and then. I'm guessing this was also because of a diagram messing up because of a unit failure?

There are 101 reasons a diagram can be messed up, so to speak, and broken. Not necessarily a failure but insufficient availability on a given day due to number of "stopped" units. May be the need to step up to cover other failures or late running earlier in the day. I could go on.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Sounds quite fair to me for that distance. I doubt that many companies (or their passengers) would see much point in trying to charge by the type of train operated on a 'standard' service.

My overall saving on a Newtown to Rhyl return was small about £3-4 but splitting shows some huge variance in pricing for similar distance trips within the Wales and Borders franchise.
I wouldn't say I experienced any premium in product on the North Wales coast.

 

[PHILIPE]

Gerald stopped additionally at Church Stretton, Craven Arms, Ludlow and Leominster today due to cancellation of 06 30 Manchester to Milford Haven which did. in fact, start from Hereford due to Traincrew shortage. Obviously guard, as the unit ran ECS to Hereford.

 

[merlodlliw]

Gerald stopped additionally at Church Stretton, Craven Arms, Ludlow and Leominster today due to cancellation of 06 30 Manchester to Milford Haven which did. in fact, start from Hereford due to Traincrew shortage. Obviously guard, as the unit ran ECS to Hereford.

Gerald the stopper then,however there would be loads of room as the Assembly is shut for half term.

 

[SprinterMan]

Looks like ATW aren't withdrawing it after all...

Adam

 

[merlodlliw]

Looks like ATW aren't withdrawing it after all...

Adam

The Minister in a letter to AMs yesterday afternoon, confirmed 0747 Wrexham/Birmingham plus the 0700 feeder Shrewsbury to Wrexham is saved.

 

[PHILIPE]

ATW Journey Check stating on morning of Saturday 14th March that bustitution between Shrewsbury & Llanwrtyd on 18 01 Shrewsbury to Swansea and 18 21 Swansea to Shrewsbury due traincrew shortage. No mention on Journey Check Saturday evening and RTT indicates trains ran normally. On Saturday evening Journey Check stated similar info re 16 18 Shrewsbury to Swansea and 15 32 Swansea to Shrewsbury Sunday afternoon.
No mention by afternoon and again evidence of trains running
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Manchester Coast Loco Hauled 175106 today. Reason not known at present.

 

[ValleyLines142]

150227 on 1934 Cardiff to Holyhead
142076 on 1935 Cardiff to Ebbw Vale
150284+153367 on 0516 Shrewsbury to Cardiff vice 153+153

 

[merlodlliw]

Network Rail we know have turned down ATW for extra North Wales/Chester to Manchester airport services from May, I have just been informed of the following from Mark Isherwood North Wales listed AM.

"ATW intend to now make the case to Office of Rail Regulation, who will ultimately make the decision."

So its not over yet.

Bob


.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Network Rail we know have turned down ATW for extra North Wales/Chester to Manchester airport services from May, I have just been informed of the following from Mark Isherwood North Wales listed AM.


So its not over yet.

Bob


.

Reading the Northern & TPE ITT's it's clear DfT went whoever comes forward to have first dibs at any paths into Manchester Airport and ATW will go to Victoria.

 

[PHILIPE]

Due OHLE problems at Wilmslow this morning a number of South Wales to Manchester Picc trains diverted via Warrington BQ and Chat Moss, mostly turning back at Oxford Rd.

Correction to above. Trains from Manchester can run normal route via Wilmslow.

 

[merlodlliw]

I note the Minister has extended the concessionary fares for another two years on ATW, over 60s etc.

So free travel on the following.

Wrexham to Shotton
HOWL, presume in Wales?
Llandudno to Ffestiniog
Cambrian, presume in Wales?

However on the buses Welsh bus passes allow travel in & out of Chester.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

I note the Minister has extended the concessionary fares for another two years on ATW, over 60s etc.

So free travel on the following.

Wrexham to Shotton
HOWL, presume in Wales?
Llandudno to Ffestiniog
Cambrian, presume in Wales?

However on the buses Welsh bus passes allow travel in & out of Chester.

I believe HOWL and Cambrian are only available October to March on concessionary travel. So no summer days out for the pensioners.

http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/ConcessionaryTravel/

 

[merlodlliw]

I believe HOWL and Cambrian are only available October to March on concessionary travel. So no summer days out for the pensioners.

http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/ConcessionaryTravel/

have not seen the statement on WG web site yet, so you may well be correct.

The same pass is however 24/7 x 52 weeks on all buses in Wales on service routes, many in Wrexham do a day trip to Barmouth & Rhyl etc.

 

[Llanigraham]

I note the Minister has extended the concessionary fares for another two years on ATW, over 60s etc.

So free travel on the following.

Wrexham to Shotton
HOWL, presume in Wales?
Llandudno to Ffestiniog
Cambrian, presume in Wales?

However on the buses Welsh bus passes allow travel in & out of Chester.

And the Cambrian is only Machynlleth to Pwllheli. (Oct to March)

 

[merlodlliw]

And the Cambrian is only Machynlleth to Pwllheli. (Oct to March)

Presume then the status Que will carry on.Gets confusing when the Cambrian is mentioned with the inland & coast sections in different Counties and of course Countries.

 

[PHILIPE]

ATW Journey Check reporting that 15 21 Cardiff to Holyhead 5L and formed 2 instead of 3 between Cardiff and Chester due Train Fault. Worked between Cardiff and Chester by 2 Carriages not normally used on long distance trains.
All I can think of is 2 x 153.

 

[craigybagel]

Almost certainly a 150, there's normally one spare at Cardiff for situations like this. I know that being pedantic they are used on long distance services but only a very small amount of them.

 

[CallySleeper]

A 150 turned up on a Holyhead - Cardiff last week. I was only going Prestatyn - Chester but fortunately they managed to sub it for a 175 at Chester.

 

[PHILIPE]

Almost certainly a 150, there's normally one spare at Cardiff for situations like this. I know that being pedantic they are used on long distance services but only a very small amount of them.

There have been 150s working these services on quite a number of occasions, so that's why I have gone for a guess of pair of 153s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Similar comments now being made re 13 02 Carmarthen to Manchester but withdrawn from 15 21. Indications that 16 50 ex Holyhead to Cardiff and the 15 21 will swap over with each other at Chester. Watch this space, I think.

Can't understand ATWs remarks re formations.
13 02 Carmarthen to Manchester changed units at Cardiff - 175002 in/175116 fwd
15 21 Cardiff to Holyhead - 150267 (not sure of the remarks as 150s have worked before)

 

[Gareth Marston]

There have been 150s working these services on quite a number of occasions, so that's why I have gone for a guess of pair of 153s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Similar comments now being made re 13 02 Carmarthen to Manchester but withdrawn from 15 21. Indications that 16 50 ex Holyhead to Cardiff and the 15 21 will swap over with each other at Chester. Watch this space, I think.

Well more of this stuff will be going on after May 18as ATW reduce Maintainence to squeeze out more Cambrian and HOW diagrams.

 

[PHILIPE]

Well more of this stuff will be going on after May 18as ATW reduce Maintainence to squeeze out more Cambrian and HOW diagrams.

Not necessary for HOW extras. Encompassed within existing resources.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There have been 150s working these services on quite a number of occasions, so that's why I have gone for a guess of pair of 153s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Similar comments now being made re 13 02 Carmarthen to Manchester but withdrawn from 15 21. Indications that 16 50 ex Holyhead to Cardiff and the 15 21 will swap over with each other at Chester. Watch this space, I think.



Can't understand ATWs remarks re formations.
13 02 Carmarthen to Manchester changed units at Cardiff - 175002 in/175116 fwd
15 21 Cardiff to Holyhead - 150267 (not sure of the remarks as 150s have worked before)

Incidentally 175105 working Manchester Locohauled today. Reason unknown