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321448 demonstrator

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oliMw

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I agree that the seats are to low down to sit on comfortably for 1 hour or more, especially on the 17:02 from LST to NRW. But I look forward to be able to seeing the improvements which have been added. The whole point of this train is to show people what improvements could be added, so how about you speak to GA and give your advice to them instead of moaning. I bet if you had brand new trains you would still moan.
 
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jon0844

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Ginger, do you have any idea how many people on FCC and GA use a 317 or 321 every single day? Or indeed those that use 319s on Thameslink, and any other variants still in use around the UK?

And you're predicting me as being part of the 1% that think the seats are fine, or really haven't even thought about it before BECAUSE IT ISN'T AN ISSUE?
 

43074

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ginger would moan if he had a private dial & ride service with one of his gold plated 379s! On the 317722 demonstrator thread he posted another one of his insightful comments, slagging the project off because the demo unit didn't have aircon, WiFi or plug sockets, even though it was supposed to be a metro demonstrator train.

He just doesn't know what he is on about!
 
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jon0844

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Ginger is of course entitled to have an opinion, but not keep talking as if he speaks for everyone and continually attacking GA (even though these Mk3 based EMUs are all over the place). It's tiresome because anyone can see he dislikes GA and just used anything to attack them.

Tens of thousands of people use these trains daily, and I don't see Facebook and Twitter full of complaints about the height of the seats, nor the director forums, nor people moaning on trains, nor petitions to have the seats changed or the trains scrapped. That's because they're rock solid, reliable, trains that get people to where they want to be in relative comfort and with little fuss.

Yes, perhaps the seats could be a bit higher but most people probably haven't thought about it or come to the conclusion that they're too low and now feel they should be changed. They're simply what they are, and have been like that since the 1980s!

Of course if Ginger can point me to anywhere that shows the supposed hatred of these seats, from 99% of the population, then I'll gladly stand (or sit if preferred) corrected.
 
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samuelmorris

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Well I certainly opened a can of worms there... sorry about that!
I do actually agree with him that the seats are a bit too low, but it doesn't exactly render the trains 'bad' because of it. To me it's a minor design issue I was rather hoping they'd use this opportunity to fix, but I'm under no illusion that it annoys the majority of travellers who use the stock, and if anything, them not having changed them probably proves this point.
 

Wivenswold

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really?? Clearly in the minority then! Try the dwarf seats 3 inches from the ground for 25 yrs!!! dreadful!

Cant believe after they spent millions on a proper refurb they ignore the MOST BASIC and frequent customer complaint......

Really??? Is 99% of the UK population hobbits?


I travel over 500 miles a week on the 321s and have done for 20 years. I've never once thought about the height of the seats and find them comfortable enough to nod off on nearly every journey.

The most frequent complaint? Really? In those 20 years I've heard thousands of complaints from customers not one of them was about the height of the seats.
 

jon0844

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I think he merely meant his own most frequent complaint, although I thought that was the dust behind the seats and along the heater vents etc?

Certainly that seemed to be his big moan about 321s before. I don't even remember Ginger mentioning seat height before either!
 

Pugwash

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I travel over 500 miles a week on the 321s and have done for 20 years. I've never once thought about the height of the seats and find them comfortable enough to nod off on nearly every journey.

The most frequent complaint? Really? In those 20 years I've heard thousands of complaints from customers not one of them was about the height of the seats.

The units that GA have refurbished show how bad the seats on the 321's generally are, the height of the chair is dependent on the thick foam in the seat to be of a reasonable height.

It is noticeable that in an unrefurbished unit that you sit far lower than a refurbished one, the lack of a regular replacement schedule is a problem, and more to the point in a unit refurbished to this level you would expect new seats.
 

samuelmorris

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Weren't the seats put in during the mid 90s refresh when FGE took over? I don't know how often the covers get changed, although I don't find them unpleasantly dirty, they're just...a bit too reclined.
If I'm totally honest, if you want to slump and doze off on your journey, they're probably better than regular seats. Unfortunately for someone who all too easily gets back pain if not sitting at the right angle, I prefer to be a bit more upright, and it's not really possible to sit upright on a 321 and have any support from your back, you basically just have to lean forward. For the 'healthy' I'm sure they're fine, it's just a little disappointing for me as the more modern seats on Electrostars and Desiros don't cause me any problems.
 

colchesterken

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302-307-306-309 had nice proper sprung seats,with high backs in the compartment ones

ooooh the old days
 

jon0844

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I'm not after fuss, but knowing when/where it is at any point next week (ideally Wednesday when I'm next in London) would be grand!

Maybe I'll meet Ginger going over it with a fine-tooth comb.
 

Aictos

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No exaggeration there at all. 3 inches from the floor...

Never had a problem on the 317 & 321s I use regularly on FCC, and I'm 5ft 10.

I'm 6ft and I've never had a problem with it too, I think Ginger has his maths confused as he's the 1% of the UK population who's got a problem with the seating :lol:
 

bramling

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Ginger, do you have any idea how many people on FCC and GA use a 317 or 321 every single day? Or indeed those that use 319s on Thameslink, and any other variants still in use around the UK?

And you're predicting me as being part of the 1% that think the seats are fine, or really haven't even thought about it before BECAUSE IT ISN'T AN ISSUE?

I find the 317s and 321s very comfortable to travel on when lightly loaded, however when you get to the point where more than 50% of seats are taken the environment becomes torturous because the legroom is inadequate. Though saying that the 365 can also be cramped in facing seats, but being only 2+2 does give a little extra space.

Ideally I'd prefer to see the 317s and 321s refurbished in a style more akin to the WAGN 317/6 refurbishment, which generally provided a pleasant travelling environment. It's a shame on the 24x 317/2s received the treatment which presumably was all the budget would stretch to.
 

samuelmorris

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Anyone know roughly what the demonstration period in service is going to be? Seemingly from the literature after initial testing it'll be going back for the traction system upgrade. I'm quite anxious to have a go on it before that happens :)
 

klewer

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21 May 2009
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I suspect they know the GEML falls apart at the slightist suggestion of rain.

Sure that wasn't a typo? Should have read "I suspect they know the GEML falls apart at the slightest suggestion of trains" :D
 
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