321448 demonstrator

[badassunicorn]

I also got a quick look on the 317/7 that they half refurbished, looks just like a SWT 455 inside tbh. A vast improvement as the existing interior on 317's is just dire

 

[ginger]

It does not matter to the Rosco, I would imagine the Rosco has already written off the 321's on their books.

All ex BR stock has been written off a long while ago.......pure cashflow for the ROSCO (sorry profit)......hence why they get sold for BILLIONS every over year....all profits guaranteed by franchise contracts....ok if you on a line that gets a new fleet (SE/SWT etc) but if you are dumping ground for the cascades then you are in trouble!

and I have been saying exactly this for ages but get slagged off for pointing out the bleeding obvious from a franchise and balance sheet/structure viewpoint!

Hate to say told you so but we are fast approaching crunch point.....

Right....examine the ROSCO spokesmans comment in Rail recently......he said (in short) if we dont get an order soon and there is not a 15 yr franchise....then there is no return for us....simply meaning that if they dont get 15 yr payback guaranteed then there is no reason for them to do the work!

Hence my point this will be a white elephant UNLESS the Dft get their heads out of their arses, stop raping Essex commuters for 000ms every year and sort this crap out!

PS Abellio do not help by coming along and saying to the DFT lets sweat the assets even further, do minimal maintenance and run these already sad tired trains into the ground!

 

[edwin_m]

Maybe, but I'd be pretty confident that it wouldn't happen on these trains.

Let's say these trains come off lease. The ROSCO would then have to either slash the price to get someone else to take them as is, consider scrapping them, or do the upgrade work itself and suddenly have loads of interest.

The same goes for the 317s (especially the 317/7s) and 319s.

And also the 313s and 315s in due course.

By doing one unit the ROSCO can demonstrate to potential customers what is possible, and be in a position to do the rest relatively quickly and at a predictable cost at the start of any new contract. And by not refurbishing the rest of them until they get a long term contract from a TOC, the TOC gets to specify some details of the interior (colour scheme, seating layout etc).

 

[ginger]

By doing one unit the ROSCO can demonstrate to potential customers what is possible, and be in a position to do the rest relatively quickly and at a predictable cost at the start of any new contract. And by not refurbishing the rest of them until they get a long term contract from a TOC, the TOC gets to specify some details of the interior (colour scheme, seating layout etc).

fine in an ideal world but respectfully you are missing the point re franchises timings private investments and timings.....and the looming 2020 regs!

 

[Voyager 2093]

http://www.globalrailnews.com/2013/11/01/countdown-to-321-demonstrator-entering-passenger-service/ - Some pictures on this page for anyone interested.

 

[Fincra5]

Those seats are hideous!

 

[Pugwash]

Those seats are hideous!

They still have pile on them so are an improvement on current GA stock.

 

[Class377/5]

I think they seats are great!

 

[fgwrich]

In the 'Metro' 3+2 section, are those the original 'Ashbourne' seats recovered?

 

[Bringback309s]

New cushions and covers!

 

[badassunicorn]

brand new seats they are, everything inside is brand new

 

[Manchester77]

No the ashbournes are the same just with new backs and covers

 

[samuelmorris]

Interesting point that was raised in the article linked - the seats still look as low as the originals. Unless the windows have been lowered (doesn't look like it) - that still makes seeing out the window a bit uncomfortable...

 

[jon0844]

Surely the windows are exactly the same size, as that would be a serious amount of work.

 

[samuelmorris]

Well yeah that's what I'd expect - hence I think a lot of people were rather hoping the seats would be higher this time around, but it doesn't look like it from the picture.

 

[ert47]

Sorry to go on a bit of a tangent, but was there a reason as to why 319-322/456 seats were so darn low?

 

[jon0844]

Is there any information as to where the demonstrator is on any given day?

I'm in London three days next week, so may well try and hunt it down if I have a clue.

 

[badassunicorn]

448 is still in Ilford Car Sheds under RSI inspection at present.

 

[Pugwash]

If the seats are still the same heights then the people who did the refurbishment should receive some feedback, the present seats are awful and use more interior space than is necessary.

 

[Alfie1014]

Report on the refurbishment of 317722 in this article;

www.therailengineer.com/2013/11/28/class-317-half-old-half-new

 

[southern442]

If the seats are still the same heights then the people who did the refurbishment should receive some feedback, the present seats are awful and use more interior space than is necessary.

The present seats are comfy for the journeys that they work but have far too little legroom.

 

[Lrd]

Report on the refurbishment of 317722 in this article;

www.therailengineer.com/2013/11/28/class-317-half-old-half-new

Looks nothing like a current 317. It looks very nice!

 

[Manchester77]

Report on the refurbishment of 317722 in this article;

www.therailengineer.com/2013/11/28/class-317-half-old-half-new

Has the same seats as the 377/6s

 

[ginger]

If the seats are still the same heights then the people who did the refurbishment should receive some feedback, the present seats are awful and use more interior space than is necessary.

really?? Clearly in the minority then! Try the dwarf seats 3 inches from the ground for 25 yrs!!! dreadful!

Cant believe after they spent millions on a proper refurb they ignore the MOST BASIC and frequent customer complaint......

Really??? Is 99% of the UK population hobbits?

 

[jon0844]

No exaggeration there at all. 3 inches from the floor...

Never had a problem on the 317 & 321s I use regularly on FCC, and I'm 5ft 10.

 

[ginger]

No exaggeration there at all. 3 inches from the floor...

Never had a problem on the 317 & 321s I use regularly on FCC, and I'm 5ft 10.

the 1% has replied.........

 

[jon0844]

Nobody expected you to like these 'new' trains. Even if you had brand new trains, you'd find something to moan about - but, seriously, the height of the seats is now a major problem for 99% of users?

That's just laughable.

I've never really noticed that the seats are any lower than other stock, and if they are then it hasn't been a problem. Of course, making them higher could mean people sit up straighter, which takes up less room - but what about young children that might struggle to get up on the seats?

 

[Manchester77]

the 1% has replied.........

Ginger you have no proof of what you randomly churn out you just take your own opinion and exaggerate it and make it into everyone's supposed opinion :roll:

 

[jon0844]

I wonder if he's Tweeted GA about how bad these trains are yet?

 

[ginger]

Nobody expected you to like these 'new' trains. Even if you had brand new trains, you'd find something to moan about - but, seriously, the height of the seats is now a major problem for 99% of users?

That's just laughable.

I've never really noticed that the seats are any lower than other stock, and if they are then it hasn't been a problem. Of course, making them higher could mean people sit up straighter, which takes up less room - but what about young children that might struggle to get up on the seats?

wonderful! once again the very few who even know about this medium ae shouted down by you! well done! you must feel so proud......just because 000s of people (who have no choice) suffer this crap daily then that is ok with you!

Well done! Love to meet up and discuss the real world of people who have to suffer this drivel every day....whilst paying through the roof!

Challenge there!