Guardian does Daily Mail style article on Reading services

[All Line Rover]

Erm...

Your point please?
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Haaa!

I am surprised that any City worker lives in Reading, to be honest. They must love the place! Why not live in SW London (services to Waterloo), SE London or the SE in general?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Your point please?
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I am surprised that any City worker lives in Reading, to be honest. They must love the place! Why not live in SW London (services to Waterloo), SE London or the SE in general?

Firstly Berkshire is quite a well to do area, some very pleasant villages surround Reading. Secondly, the quote came from a teacher, not a banker, that was his point.

 

[dvboy]

Your point please?

The quote wasn't from a city worker.

 

[All Line Rover]

The quote wasn't from a city worker.

Ah, OK - that's a fair point.

 

[A0]

"Guardian does Daily Mail style article on Reading services"

And you're surprised? The Grauniad is to the left what the Daily Mail is to the right.

It panders to it's readers prejudices perfectly. If anything it's nastier than the Daily Mail because it speaks for a privileged minority who somehow believe they are superior.

If you want objective reporting The Telegraph, FT and Economist are the best places by far.

 

[dvboy]

"Guardian does Daily Mail style article on Reading services"

And you're surprised? The Grauniad is to the left what the Daily Mail is to the right.

It panders to it's readers prejudices perfectly. If anything it's nastier than the Daily Mail because it speaks for a privileged minority who somehow believe they are superior.

If you want objective reporting The Telegraph, FT and Economist are the best places by far.

Oh please. :roll:

 

[Tomonthetrain]

If you want objective reporting The Telegraph, FT and Economist are the best places by far.

My Faveroite newspapers!

 

[route:oxford]

Sometimes these hard done by commuters just don't help themselves though. Time and time again I have been at Reading in the AM peak watching them all fighting to get on when announcements are made about another London train 3 minutes away (in fact you can usually see it waiting for entry into the station). But no they still all fight their way on like Lemmings. Then within about 15 mins there are 3 or 4 London trains none of which are anything like as full as the first

Perhaps it's because passengers have, over the years, learnt not to trust the announcements or the departure boards.

I've known announcements "waiting outside the station" to mean 12-15 minutes behind the service on the platform - generally because there are conflicting movements at the western end of the station throat as a consequence of service delays.

Hopefully, the 5 extra platforms at Reading will result in more reliable information.

 

[bengolding]

I've never reserved a seat in First Class on the Nuneaton/Rugby-Euston route. Always got a seat unless the WCML has gone pear-shaped. I buy a First Class season twice a month between Paddington-Reading. As I'm going against the flow, I never have problems although I do always avoid the Turbos (even First on the SWT via Virginia Water is fairly comfortable). I often arrive into Reading around 8am and it is fascinating to watch hoards trying to cram onto an already packed HST when 2 or 3 HSTs are running directly behind. Perhaps starting a few HSTs at Reading would help but where's the platform capacity/units for this?

 

[mralexn]

Correct me if I'm wrong but you're 16, right? You don't work, you don't commute daily, you don't know what "most people" do.

I'm going to go to my ticket office on Tuesday morning and book a seat on the 08:28 to Birmingham and the 17:49 back each weekday this month shall I? Yes I'll hold up the queue behind me at peak time and come away with 42 reservation coupons, that won't be a problem will it? I wouldn't be surprised if ticket office staff politely tell me to do one.

Oh and I probably won't get on those trains most days anyway so there'll be an empty seat running on it each way. Yes, those are the services I aim for but I rarely actually get them for various reasons.

Are you seriously recommending every season ticket holder do that? :roll:



This has nothing to do with pets, but you have pretty much agreed with me anyway, unless you mean you'd be willing to pay to upgrade, in which case just buy the First Class ticket anyway.

Yes. It's not the Train Company's fault that YOU miss YOUR train with your Seat reservation on it, no one elses,
Also, you can reserve seats Online or On your smartphone now, 2 hours in advance, and with CrossCountry it is 10 mins!

 

[Nym]

All well and good but when your train into work left Penzance 5 hours earlier it isn't much good really...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

No, a seat reservation guarantees you a seat. A ticket, of whatever class, just entitles you to travel in the applicable class.

Unless you are travelling on ATW from Hereford to Wilmslow, when that particular company does not put the seat reservation labels in their holders and when you board, there are people sat in your seat. 2011 saw this happen more than once to me, even though the seat reservations had been booked a week in advance at the same time as ticket purchase.

Anyone else who has suffered from ATW not putting seat reservations labels in, when seat reservations had been made.

 

[northwichcat]

I've noticed exactly the same issue at Crewe.

The 08:11 Virgin Trains service to Manchester (06:36 ex. Euston) has hundreds of seats available (literally!). Rarely more than 10 people in the Quiet Coach, and often some empty First Class carriages.

But no, the commuters don't like this train! Instead, they all pile onto the 08:28 Arriva Trains Wales service to Manchester, which has been standing-room-only since Nantwich.

You do wonder what goes through peoples' minds sometimes. The Virgin Trains service is cheaper too! I know some people don't like Pendolino's, but I don't think it's the main reason in this case.

Maybe you should tell some of the passengers that. A lot of people may not realise that if they get up 15 minutes earlier there is a long deserted train calling at Wilmslow, Stockport and Manchester. Virgin publicise all the demand for their services and all the extra seats being introduced but don't say anything about all the empty air some of their trains transport around.
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I'll say the obvious - more carriages!

FGW are getting more carriages in the form of the 150/0s and the 180s, which will allow more Turbostars to run doubled up, as well as additional HST carriages. However, I didn't notice any mention of this in the article.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Most of the posts on this thread are unbelievably customer-hostile.
You do realise these are the people that pay wages and keep the railways going, and they have a choice of transport mode?

And they can look forward to at least 5 years of disruption from electrification and resignalling works before the service improves.

To enrage you all, I suggest First send a batch of 185s from FTP to FGW for the Thames Valley commuter services as soon as they convert Manchester-Scotland to electric, rather than using them on Manchester-Leeds...


There is also nothing wrong with the Guardian article as a piece of reportage.
Much the same as on the BBC this morning.
It's what happens when the industry manages its PR so badly.

The Guardian's regular transport correspondent Dan Milmo is one of the best journos and is usually very fair (he didn't write this one).

 

[FGW_Lad]

My cousin travels daily from Reading to London and although he is not happy with the train fares, he has a steady job and during these difficult economic times is a bonus.

I occasionaly use the trains in the mornings, sometimes on my way to uni in Hatfield and it makes me wonder why people do cram on to one train at once, where there is another behind or a few minutes away.

Then again, train fares are becoming a joke year on year

 

[Bellwater]

To enrage you all, I suggest First send a batch of 185s from FTP to FGW for the Thames Valley commuter services as soon as they convert Manchester-Scotland to electric, rather than using them on Manchester-Leeds....

That's if they're not 'secretly' moved up to Scotrail when/if First get kicked out of TPE...

 

[northwichcat]

To enrage you all, I suggest First send a batch of 185s from FTP to FGW for the Thames Valley commuter services as soon as they convert Manchester-Scotland to electric, rather than using them on Manchester-Leeds...

Due to the fact that the Scottish service will be via Wigan and something will need to plug the gap via Bolton, there's only likely to be 4 or 5 x 185s freed up to add capacity on to North TPE - really just enough to allow 4 x doubled up 170 diagrams, as it should have been originally. 4 or 5 units which aren't similar to another type within the FGW fleet will be a nightmare for mantentaince and crew training.

It would actually make more sense to put a few 185s on to Blackpool to York or Calder Vale and send a few 158s down south, if you're intent on robbing one operator who is overdue additional rolling stock to give it to another.

However, in reality FGW will have cascaded electric stock by the time North TPE is electrified, which is when the North will actually have spare rolling stock in the form of around 30 or so class 142s, which will be ready to be withdrawn by then.

 

[jon0844]

The Guardian's regular transport correspondent Dan Milmo is one of the best journos and is usually very fair (he didn't write this one).

I think they get Alastair Campbell to write the really horrid anti-rail, anti-Government drivel!

I think FGW could learn from FCC after FCC recently issued a press release to big up its new year offering of extra trains (and free travel) and then cancelled almost every train because it didn't manage to get any drivers to turn up.

FGW could merely say it will run extra trains from Reading, but then cancel them on the day. No need to say where the drivers, or rolling stock, is coming from!!

(FWIW, I doubt First is in any position to move stock from one franchise to another, nor could FGW buy any more stock on its own - not least as I believe the DfT wasn't best pleased about a TOC owning its own trains).
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Then again, train fares are becoming a joke year on year

Tell me about it. I am so glad to no longer need to pay £3,500 for what was sometimes less than 30 minutes on the train! I am not sure what it would be this year.

I dislike the percentage increase that compounds over time, so it obviously grows faster and faster every year even if the percentage is the same. Of course, I am not sure there's another way to do it (besides just adding a fixed amount to each fare every year) but inflation has been quite low - yet I'm paying a load more (or would have been) than I was when I started commuting 9 years ago.

 

[Helvellyn]

A busy train being busy is hardly a shock nor is it news but I think that the level of complaints would be substantially less if it didn't cost people over £4.5k a year for a 30 minutes or so journey each way on a train every day.

The journey time from Falkirk High to Edinburgh Waverley (so into Scotland's financial capital) is roughly the same yet the cost of a season ticket for that, even after the increase, is £1832 so about 60% less.

Now, I'll be the first person to hold my hands up and say I don't know what kind of subsidies might be in place that allow for such a disparity in price but I'd say it is that disparity and not the standing that causes the complaints.

Reduce an annual Reading-London Season Ticket to £1832 a year, and then see the complaints about overcrowding!

 

[jon0844]

Reduce an annual Reading-London Season Ticket to £1832 a year, and then see the complaints about overcrowding!

Yeah, that's the problem isn't it.

I was paying a small fortune, but I have to say that I got a seat about 99% of the time (only exception being between Finsbury Park and Highbury & Islington on the only 3-car train that ran in the peak, so that meant standing for two stops before getting a choice of seats). For the other trains, I'd always get a seat and often the option of first class on a declassified service.

So, while the price was crazy, I never suffered congestion like some people do. I do sympathise with people who may have to stand for a long time, as well as having to move around to let others on/off, or get off yourself (if not going all the way to the terminus). I know your ticket doesn't ensure a seat, but I'd still expect to be given a fair chance to get one.

To its credit, FCC did do a lot of work to manage the peak services, and secure new rolling stock, and the result is you are more likely to get a seat than not. But, unlike the media, we know that it is not as simple as getting new trains (or even old ones) thanks to the way to the franchises work.

 

[Greenback]

The HSt's between Reading and London have been extremely busy for years. I commuted for a very short time in the late 1990's and was squeezed into the vestibule just like today!

I don't think seat reservations are a viable solution for season ticket holders, neither do I think that declassifying First Class is in the interests of the TOC. Although I am loathe to mention it, as it isn;t soemthing I would like to happen, perhaps different season ticket fares for different services might be seen as a way forward?

 

[LexyBoy]

Reading to London is certainly overcrowded, though I'm surprised that Thameslink or some of the routes through East Croydon or Clapham Junction aren't worse. And it certainly does seem expensive - travelling from Oxford, twice the distance, is only ~25% more expensive (from memory).

What surprised/amused/disappointed me was the repeated quotes complaining that "it wouldn't be so bad if we could see where the money is going"... erm... what about the £700m building site you get trains from every day? Or the additional capacity announced in November? Or the proposed electrification of the GWML with considerably more seats? Even Crossrail is likely to have an impact.

If you really want a seat, you're pretty much guaranteed one if you take a service starting at Reading - at the expense of a longer journey - ~45 mins to Paddington or ~80 to Waterloo.

It would be great to see a high-speed shuttle between Reading and Paddington to soak up passengers from longer-distance services, but until Heathrow Express can be removed from the fast lines it's just not going to happen, even if there was stock available. Even little innovations like posters colour-coding trains by typical overcrowding levels would be good, though unlikely as FGW would probably feel it shows them in a bad light.

Although I am loathe to mention it, as it isn;t soemthing I would like to happen, perhaps different season ticket fares for different services might be seen as a way forward?

You mean a sort of "off peak" season? It might work, but I doubt there are many who would be able to use it. There was (is?) FGW's "first class eastbound only" season - don't think this applied from Reading though.

 

[Greenback]

You mean a sort of "off peak" season? It might work, but I doubt there are many who would be able to use it. There was (is?) FGW's "first class eastbound only" season - don't think this applied from Reading though.

I was thinking more of a cheaper ticket that would only be valid on trains before and after particular times, except for those trains you mention that start/terminate at Reading.

It would be nightmare to enforce though, and as most Reading commuters seem 'happy' to pay the current fares, stand, and have a moan about it I can't see it being of much practical use in any case.

 

[All Line Rover]

I was thinking more of a cheaper ticket that would only be valid on trains before and after particular times, except for those trains you mention that start/terminate at Reading.

It would be nightmare to enforce though, and as most Reading commuters seem 'happy' to pay the current fares, stand, and have a moan about it I can't see it being of much practical use in any case.

You mean like TPE's "Early Bird" season tickets? I could see that working, although they would have to have more reasonable restrictions.

 

[cle]

I think once Crossrail and Hex are online, there will be more fast trains to Reading, but they'll probably go on to Newbury and Oxford, and so have the same problems if turning up full at Reading already.

Might it be worth putting in a high-density carriage on some FGW HSTs, aimed at Reading passengers?

 

[Nym]

Indeed cle, but they could run 16 carriage formation EMUs on crowdbuster services when they get their 319s, for me they can have all of them to run these services, from Oxford, Newbury or starting at Reading, i'm sure 320m of train a couple of times in the morning would go down well with the berkshire commuters, but they'll no dowbt moan that the're old units.

 

[142094]

You mean like TPE's "Early Bird" season tickets? I could see that working, although they would have to have more reasonable restrictions.

I was just going to suggest that - it is probably the next step, but again all this does is spread out the demand a bit further. If patronage keeps on increasing as it has been, then these services will become overcrowded and we'll be in the same situation all over again.

Good solution for the short term but we need to plan long term as well.

 

[northwichcat]

I don't think seat reservations are a viable solution for season ticket holders

It's one of those things that sounds good on paper.

However, if
number of season ticket holders who regularly travel on service > number of seats on trains
then you have a problem where some season ticket holders will never get a seat, unless a season ticket holder normally travelling on that service isn't travelling.

That is then the second problem the annual ticket holders will get 4-5 weeks holiday then there will be regularly reserved seats not taken, which will, as happens at present, lead to non-reservation holders taking their chances in a non-occupied reserved seat in the hope that the reservee doesn't turn up.

 

[Nym]

Other then extending Reading, Oxford, Newbury and paddington's platforms to 400m and running 20 car formation EMU, I can't think of anyting more 'long term' that can be done, other than population control in Berkshire.

6 track to Airport Junction could help, and then extend many more crossrail services to Reading, so out of the core 24tph...

8tph Airport
12tph Reading
4tph Tring?

But remember XR stock is only 200m long, and will be slower than HSTs, that pax will still pile onto because it's 10mins faster than the fast XR services on the relief lines.

Crowdbuster services could work, but you need somwhere to put them...

At the moment I'm wondering if there would be space at Reading to terminate 8 or 12tph off the Relief lines?

Possibly:
8tph Airport, 4tph Slough, 4tph Maidenhead, 4tph Reading, 4tph Tring, if there isn't much space on the releifs, but withthe 4tph Reading only calling at principal stations on the way into London in an attempt to make it as fast as possible, 6 track from Airport Junction would help.

 

[LexyBoy]

I think once Crossrail and Hex are online, there will be more fast trains to Reading, but they'll probably go on to Newbury and Oxford, and so have the same problems if turning up full at Reading already.

The existing Oxford HSTs are generally the least busy on arrival at Reading, so if augmented then it should still help.

Might it be worth putting in a high-density carriage on some FGW HSTs, aimed at Reading passengers?

hock: Have you been on a FGW HST? The only way they could pack more in would be a London Overground style standing room only coach, which I don't think would lead to very appreciative headlines!
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But remember XR stock is only 200m long, and will be slower than HSTs, that pax will still pile onto because it's 10mins faster than the fast XR services on the relief lines.

I doubt it, not many people want to go to Paddington. I'm sure it would be possible to encourage people to change at Reading for central stations too, which would free up some seats on the fasts.

At the moment I'm wondering if there would be space at Reading to terminate 8 or 12tph off the Relief lines?

With the additional platforms, I don't think it's too unrealistic.