Guardian does Daily Mail style article on Reading services

[All Line Rover]

No idea. Can you tell me how many people actually hold First Class season tickets to travel on these Southeastern services, and how that compares to Standard Class?

How many of these people are simply Standard Class paying passengers sitting in First Class, given the little difference and "just a sticker" to identify it.

I know that's what I would do given the opportunity.

Ticket checks are carried out on Southeastern, so I doubt you'd get away with sitting there every day. I have no idea how many people purchase First Class season tickets, but I have been told by people living in the area that a good few do.

The number of First Class passengers they'd lose compared to the number of extra Standard Class passengers they could convey, would more than even things out.

Even better when you think of a potential reduction in complaints and a better reputation.

FGW suffers from awful overcrowding between Reading and London. There are only two First Class carriages on many services (which have a decent loading), so I doubt declassifying First Class would solve all of FGW's problems. Getting back to my original point, the simple fact is that Standard Class commuters should just reserve a seat if they want one, instead of complaining that they never get one. Barge through the carriage if need be!

 

[dvboy]

If these people insist on travelling to London to work but aren't happy with the train service they can always move somewhere else or get a job nearer to home. A poor view to take but pffft.

It is a poor view to take, for example, I work in Birmingham but it's much cheaper for me to live where I do in Wolverhampton and commute every day than it is to live in central Birmingham. I imagine living costs in London make that argument even stronger for some.

Changing job is far easier said than done.

 

[Urban Gateline]

I think some of the passengers using that FGW route are probably glad they don't have to be on the train long, it is much quicker than the SWT alternative which takes over 1h 20min for the same journey, but via Ascot!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I think some of the passengers using that FGW route are probably glad they don't have to be on the train long, it is much quicker than the SWT alternative which takes over 1h 20min for the same journey, but via Ascot!

Doesn't help that over the years the fast services have been scrapped. In the past there was an hourly service calling at Wokingham, Ascot , Staines and Richmond only!

 

[dvboy]

Ticket checks are carried out on Southeastern, so I doubt you'd get away with sitting there every day. I have no idea how many people purchase First Class season tickets, but I have been told by people living in the area that a good few do.

Probably not but I would happily move if requested and there was somewhere for me to move to. Most ticket checking staff I have come across, on the odd occasion I have done this, have been happy for me to sit in First when Standard is crowded. You don't ask if you don't get.

You'll find that when a service is crowded enough, ticket checks are harder if not impossible to carry out anyway.

And you don't know the numbers so your argument is weak.

FGW suffers from awful overcrowding between Reading and London. There are only two First Class carriages on many services (which have a decent loading), so I doubt declassifying First Class would solve all of FGW's problems. Getting back to my original point, the simple fact is that Standard Class commuters should just reserve a seat if they want one, instead of complaining that they never get one. Barge through the carriage if need be!

It won't solve all the problems but would certainly improve the situation.

I have said it earlier in the thread that reservations cause more trouble on crowded trains because of people "barging through" to find their reservation, and trying to turf out people sat in their reserved seats.

Do you honestly expect season ticket holders to visit a booking office to reserve a ticket for each of their journeys they might make? For a good proportion of season ticket holders, this would be impossible to do because they don't get the same time trains every day, and don't know in advance which one they will take.

For example... I might be delayed on my journey to the station in the morning, or get a quicker than normal run on the bus because it's a school holiday. I might have a busy day at work which means I need to work later than I normally would. There might be delays in which case I might get an earlier train that arrives near to the time the one I would have got does.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm not sure why they've chose to single out the FGW services though...

I expect they've chosen to single out FGW because the last official ORR statistics showed that FGW had something like 9 out of the 10 most overcrwded services.

 

[All Line Rover]

I have said it earlier in the thread that reservations cause more trouble on crowded trains because of people "barging through" to find their reservation, and trying to turf out people sat in their reserved seats.

Do you honestly expect season ticket holders to visit a booking office to reserve a ticket for each of their journeys they might make? For a good proportion of season ticket holders, this would be impossible to do because they don't get the same time trains every day, and don't know in advance which one they will take.

For example... I might be delayed on my journey to the station in the morning, or get a quicker than normal run on the bus because it's a school holiday. I might have a busy day at work which means I need to work later than I normally would. There might be delays in which case I might get an earlier train that arrives near to the time the one I would have got does.

Reservations are free for season ticket holders. Most people try to take the same service, so it wouldn't be difficult to go to the ticket office and ask for a seat reservation on, say, the 07:33 from Reading to London for every weekday in the next month. You might be waiting for a few minutes, but it would be worth it to get a seat each day. If you miss the 07:33, that doesn't matter - you haven't lost any money.

I am happy to barge through a carriage to get a seat (people shouldn't bring their pet animals on peak services :roll. I'm not happy to argue with people who refuse to budge, but if that's the case and no other seats are available, I'll just go and sit in First Class anyway!

 

[dvboy]

Reservations are free for season ticket holders. Most people try to take the same service, so it wouldn't be difficult to go to the ticket office and ask for a seat reservation on, say, the 07:33 from Reading to London for every weekday in the next month. You might be waiting for a few minutes, but it would be worth it to get a seat each day. If you miss the 07:33, that doesn't matter - you haven't lost any money.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you're 16, right? You don't work, you don't commute daily, you don't know what "most people" do.

I'm going to go to my ticket office on Tuesday morning and book a seat on the 08:28 to Birmingham and the 17:49 back each weekday this month shall I? Yes I'll hold up the queue behind me at peak time and come away with 42 reservation coupons, that won't be a problem will it? I wouldn't be surprised if ticket office staff politely tell me to do one.

Oh and I probably won't get on those trains most days anyway so there'll be an empty seat running on it each way. Yes, those are the services I aim for but I rarely actually get them for various reasons.

Are you seriously recommending every season ticket holder do that? :roll:

I am happy to barge through a carriage to get a seat (people shouldn't bring their pet animals on peak services :roll. I'm not happy to argue with people who refuse to budge, but if that's the case and no other seats are available, I'll just go and sit in First Class anyway!

This has nothing to do with pets, but you have pretty much agreed with me anyway, unless you mean you'd be willing to pay to upgrade, in which case just buy the First Class ticket anyway.

 

[All Line Rover]

Correct me if I'm wrong but you're 16, right? You don't work, you don't commute daily, you don't know what "most people" do.

I'm going to go to my ticket office on Tuesday morning and book a seat on the 08:28 to Birmingham and the 17:49 back each weekday this month shall I? Yes I'll hold up the queue behind me at peak time and come away with 42 reservation coupons, that won't be a problem will it? I wouldn't be surprised if ticket office staff politely tell me to do one.

Oh and I probably won't get on those trains most days anyway so there'll be an empty seat running on it each way. Yes, those are the services I aim for but I rarely actually get them for various reasons.

Are you seriously recommending every season ticket holder do that? :roll:

I have started to commute daily along my local line (albeit with SDR's rather than a season) and use the same service each day. I highly doubt that "most people" take a different service every day - if they want to do so and don't get a seat, that's their choice, but it's a bit silly to complain about it.

If you buy a season ticket you have a right to make as many reservations as you want. I made about 50 reservations when I did an ALR, and rather than sulk, the ticket office staff just laughed about it! Why would they sulk? It keeps them in their jobs, after all, as you can't make reservations on a TVM! (Having checked, I'm not sure why you cite yourself as an example, as season tickets do not exist between Wolverhampton and Birmingham.)

Is the 08:28 really standing-room only? Wolverhampton to Birmingham has an excellent frequency of service, with many trains having empty seats. You could always take the 08:45 which would definitely have seats available, and First Class would only cost 40p more than an "Any Permitted" SDR!

 

[Old Timer]

...but if that's the case and no other seats are available, I'll just go and sit in First Class anyway!

I anticipate you will be meeting with an RPI in due course in that case.

 

[All Line Rover]

I anticipate you will be meeting with an RPI in due course in that case.

I'm sure the RPI will go and kick that person out, then.

 

[dvboy]

I have a NWM season ticket.

I never said my daily trains were so busy as I would never get a seat, but like I said, I often take other trains and I can do this because there is a high frequency of service, as there is Reading-London.

I don't know which line is your local line but perhaps you have less options available to you.

 

[All Line Rover]

I have a NWM season ticket.

I never said my daily trains were so busy as I would never get a seat, but like I said, I often take other trains and I can do this because there is a high frequency of service, as there is Reading-London.

I don't know which line is your local line but perhaps you have less options available to you.

My local line has an hourly service, so it is quite obvious why I always catch the same train.

Yes, Reading does have a high frequency of service. If you want to turn up and take whatever train you like - fine, but don't expect a seat and complain if you don't get one. If you want a seat, make a reservation and stick to it. It's not hard.

Getting back on topic, the people in The Guardian article are complaining for the sake of complaining. Seat reservations are available if they want a seat. They're in a much better position than some other commuters.

 

[dvboy]

My local line has an hourly service, so it is quite obvious why I always catch the same train.

Well there you go then... :roll: You've no idea what "most people" do on a line that has a high frequency of service.

Yes, Reading does have a high frequency of service. If you want to turn up and take whatever train you like - fine, but don't expect a seat and complain if you don't get one. If you want a seat, make a reservation and stick to it. It's not hard.

No because it's quite obvious that many of the trains on this line have overcrowding problems, not just some of them.

It is not the fault of passengers that the trains don't have enough seats, and therefore reservations is not the answer.

 

[All Line Rover]

No because it's quite obvious that many of the trains on this line have overcrowding problems, not just some of them.

It is not the fault of passengers that the trains don't have enough seats, and therefore reservations is not the answer.

What solution do you propose for the problems in Reading then?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

What solution do you propose for the problems in Reading then?

I'll say the obvious - more carriages!

 

[Minilad]

I'll say the obvious - more carriages!

Or a commuter cull

 

[dvboy]

I'll say the obvious - more carriages!

This.

But in the short term, declassifying First when Standard is crowded will help.

It is clear we are not just talking about a handful people having to stand...

The very worst was the 6.37am, packed with workers heading to trading desks in the City, where even on an average day the train was 306 passengers over capacity.

"Sometimes you've just got a square foot to stand in, it's horrible."

"I don't know how the train companies can justify the money they make," he says, cramped against an old slam door, [...] "If you look at first class it's normally half empty."

 

[asylumxl]

This.

But in the short term, declassifying First when Standard is crowded will help.

It is clear we are not just talking about a handful people having to stand...

That won't happen because there is still this view that first class passengers "subsidise" standard class passengers, when in reality they are so few it probably makes very little difference.

They don't want to upset their "business travellers" in FC, who are infact crammed into standard due to changes within their companies which mean they are no longer allowed to claim expenses on extortionate FC fares.

This is just my opinion anyway.

 

[Nym]

Or a commuter cull

Well, it's Berkshire so no massive loss really...

 

[Schnellzug]

Really? Aren't there like about two dozen HST services every hour? Some should be so lucky. :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The sad thing is that people will be taken in hook, line and sinker. With any luck media will be forced by law to be representative and factual at all times

I'm afraid that would amount to Censorship, and that would violate the Sacred Principle of Freedom of the Press.
That's what the Press would say, anyway. An argument I might have some sympathy for if they did something useful with their freedom, like highlighting abuses of government power, rather than just whinging on about this, that or the other when they have some space to fill. :roll:

 

[IanD]

Reservations are free for season ticket holders.

According to page 21 of the National Rail timetable, FGW charge £5 for each reservation made after you've purchased your ticket:

"RESERVATION DETAILS A seat reservation, free of charge, can be made at the time of purchasing your ticket. Additional reservations, including those made by season ticket holders, are subject to a £5 fee."

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse documents/eNRT/Dec11/Commercial_Information.pdf

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Really? Aren't there like about two dozen HST services every hour? Some should be so lucky. :roll:

Only 5-6 Most of which are full well before Reading.

 

[All Line Rover]

According to page 21 of the National Rail timetable, FGW charge £5 for each reservation made after you've purchased your ticket:

"RESERVATION DETAILS A seat reservation, free of charge, can be made at the time of purchasing your ticket. Additional reservations, including those made by season ticket holders, are subject to a £5 fee."

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse documents/eNRT/Dec11/Commercial_Information.pdf

That is shocking, although I suspect you could still make reservations for free by getting them at a non-FGW ticket office.

 

[thelongestroad]

That is shocking, although I suspect you could still make reservations for free by getting them at a non-FGW ticket office.

The charge is totally discretionary upon the production of a valid pass/ticket.

 

[Barn]

Saying that a first class ticket isn't bought to get a seat shows an admirable knowledge of ticketing terms and conditions but a real lack of commercial awareness. Declassification won't become a regular occurrence anytime soon if FGW wants to keep selling a peak-time first class offering.

 

[asylumxl]

The charge is totally discretionary upon the production of a valid pass/ticket.

I have never been charged for making a reservation at any FGW station. So nobody must enforce that idiocy.

 

[thelongestroad]

I have never been charged for making a reservation at any FGW station. So nobody must enforce that idiocy.

Absolutely. You are quite right.

 

[AlterEgo]

The very worst was the 6.37am, packed with workers heading to trading desks in the City....

....."I don't know how the train companies can justify the money they make," he says

Haaa!

 

[dvboy]

Haaa!

Erm...

The 39-year-old, who works in higher education, has been commuting to Charing Cross via London Paddington since the summer, paying £409 a month.

"I don't know how the train companies can justify the money they make," he says