Guardian does Daily Mail style article on Reading services

[northwichcat]

It's entitled: Welcome to Britain's worst train service: Reading to London

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/201...ton?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

As we know passenger numbers are not counted on every single service, just the busy London commuter lines and the 150/0s and 180s will allow extra capacity on FGW routes later in the year.

 

[All Line Rover]

:roll: Sensationalist journalism at its best.

Season tickets rise by 6%! Shock horror! hock: Just like all other season tickets as per government policy.

And is this article about Reading or Theale? If it's about Reading (as indicated by the title), I'm surprised that the "seasoned traveller" - an advertising account manager who complains "I don't ever get a seat" - isn't aware that she can simply make a reservation on HST trains and get a guaranteed seat every morning (and evening).

 

[Zoe]

And is this article about Reading or Theale? If it's about Reading (as indicated by the title), I'm surprised that the "seasoned traveller" - an advertising account manager who complains "I don't ever get a seat" - isn't aware that she can simply make a reservation on HST trains and get a guaranteed seat every morning (and evening).

Don't forget some HSTs stop at Theale.

 

[All Line Rover]

Don't forget some HSTs stop at Theale.

Oh - I didn't know that. That simply concretes the futility of these complaints, in that these "seasoned" travellers are free to make a seat reservation whenever they like! :roll:

Is it possible to make seat reservations on Turbostar's also?

 

[SS4]

The sad thing is that people will be taken in hook, line and sinker. With any luck media will be forced by law to be representative and factual at all times

 

[Nym]

On FGW, I'd say turbostar reservations are impossible....

Thames Turbo reservations, I'm not to sure on

 

[dvboy]

If there are First Class seats sitting empty and Standard is full, why are they not declassifying First Class (or part of it)?

 

[Captain Chaos]

You cannot reserve a seat on turbo's. The carriages are not lettered, inside there are no seat numbers and there is nowhere to put the slips anyway.

 

[WestCoast]

You cannot reserve a seat on turbo's. The carriages are not lettered, inside there are no seat numbers and there is nowhere to put the slips anyway.

Interesting story I read somewhere (it might have been here), when a pacer once operated in place of a 158 on the old Transpennine Express, the seat reservation slips were sellotaped on the seatbacks!

 

[Minilad]

Sometimes these hard done by commuters just don't help themselves though. Time and time again I have been at Reading in the AM peak watching them all fighting to get on when announcements are made about another London train 3 minutes away (in fact you can usually see it waiting for entry into the station). But no they still all fight their way on like Lemmings. Then within about 15 mins there are 3 or 4 London trains none of which are anything like as full as the first

 

[ushawk]

If there are First Class seats sitting empty and Standard is full, why are they not declassifying First Class (or part of it)?

If there are paying FC passengers in FC already, perhaps the guard doesnt want to declassify it or they have been told not to.

 

[jon0844]

Sometimes these hard done by commuters just don't help themselves though. Time and time again I have been at Reading in the AM peak watching them all fighting to get on when announcements are made about another London train 3 minutes away (in fact you can usually see it waiting for entry into the station). But no they still all fight their way on like Lemmings. Then within about 15 mins there are 3 or 4 London trains none of which are anything like as full as the first

You see that on the tube too. A gap in service means a train comes in that is packed, with 2 or even 3 services close behind.

It then delays the service further, when there is a train behind (or at the very least one behind that) that will have more than enough room. How desperate can people be to want to fight their way on to a train when another is behind?

I see the same at Finsbury Park when people try to squeeze on to a 3-car 313 into Moorgate and a 6-car is just minutes behind.

I guess these clueless commuters (and you'd think that doing it day in day out would be quite educational) are the ones who are first to volunteer to rant in the press and on TV!

 

[SS4]

I guess these clueless commuters (and you'd think that doing it day in day out would be quite educational) are the ones who are first to volunteer to rant in the press and on TV!

And the last to realise the hefty discount they get for buying a season ticket too presumably

 

[dvboy]

You cannot reserve a seat on turbo's. The carriages are not lettered, inside there are no seat numbers and there is nowhere to put the slips anyway.

To be fair, if a train is crowded, having reservations sometimes just makes matters worse.

 

[Chew Chew]

A busy train being busy is hardly a shock nor is it news but I think that the level of complaints would be substantially less if it didn't cost people over £4.5k a year for a 30 minutes or so journey each way on a train every day.

The journey time from Falkirk High to Edinburgh Waverley (so into Scotland's financial capital) is roughly the same yet the cost of a season ticket for that, even after the increase, is £1832 so about 60% less.

Now, I'll be the first person to hold my hands up and say I don't know what kind of subsidies might be in place that allow for such a disparity in price but I'd say it is that disparity and not the standing that causes the complaints.

 

[All Line Rover]

If there are First Class seats sitting empty and Standard is full, why are they not declassifying First Class (or part of it)?

The whole point of First Class is that you are guaranteed a seat - quite justifiably considering the price! If there are a few empty seats in First Class, and First Class is then declassified, that means there are no empty seats left. Not ideal.

To be honest, FGW commuters have it easy compared to EC and VT commuters - the number of First Class seats in proportion to Standard Class seats is much lower.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

The whole point of First Class is that you are guaranteed a seat

No, a seat reservation guarantees you a seat. A ticket, of whatever class, just entitles you to travel in the applicable class.

 

[All Line Rover]

A busy train being busy is hardly a shock nor is it news but I think that the level of complaints would be substantially less if it didn't cost people over £4.5k a year for a 30 minutes or so journey each way on a train every day.

The journey time from Falkirk High to Edinburgh Waverley (so into Scotland's financial capital) is roughly the same yet the cost of a season ticket for that, even after the increase, is £1832 so about 60% less.

Now, I'll be the first person to hold my hands up and say I don't know what kind of subsidies might be in place that allow for such a disparity in price but I'd say it is that disparity and not the standing that causes the complaints.

Falkirk High to Edinburgh Waverly is, point to point, about 23.5 miles. Reading to London is about 34.5 miles. That doesn't completely justify the price difference, but it also has to be remembered that people in the south of England are on (generally) higher salaries than people in Scotland, that people in Reading have a more frequent service than people in Falkirk, and that there is more demand in Reading than there is in Falkirk.

 

[All Line Rover]

No, a seat reservation guarantees you a seat. A ticket, of whatever class, just entitles you to travel in the applicable class.

That is correct, but I doubt many people would buy First Class season tickets if they did not get a seat each morning. The idea that First Class travellers are guaranteed a seat is strongly implied, although, of course, there is no compensation available if that is not the case!

 

[Ibex]

I don't really have much sympathy mainly for points which have already been made by others. I'm not sure why they've chose to single out the FGW services though, I'm sure if Simon Murphy had spoke to commuters at Milton Keynes they'd say the same about LM / VT, commuters at Colchester would say the same about NXEA, the Woking commuters would say the same about SWT etc etc, you see where I'm going with this.

If these people insist on travelling to London to work but aren't happy with the train service they can always move somewhere else or get a job nearer to home. A poor view to take but pffft.

 

[dvboy]

The whole point of First Class is that you are guaranteed a seat

Rubbish.

 

[All Line Rover]

Sometimes these hard done by commuters just don't help themselves though. Time and time again I have been at Reading in the AM peak watching them all fighting to get on when announcements are made about another London train 3 minutes away (in fact you can usually see it waiting for entry into the station). But no they still all fight their way on like Lemmings. Then within about 15 mins there are 3 or 4 London trains none of which are anything like as full as the first

I've noticed exactly the same issue at Crewe.

The 08:11 Virgin Trains service to Manchester (06:36 ex. Euston) has hundreds of seats available (literally!). Rarely more than 10 people in the Quiet Coach, and often some empty First Class carriages.

But no, the commuters don't like this train! Instead, they all pile onto the 08:28 Arriva Trains Wales service to Manchester, which has been standing-room-only since Nantwich.

You do wonder what goes through peoples' minds sometimes. The Virgin Trains service is cheaper too! I know some people don't like Pendolino's, but I don't think it's the main reason in this case.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Rubbish.

Could you please give me one other reason why Southeastern commuters pay for a First Class season ticket?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Could you please give me one other reason why Southeastern commuters pay for a First Class season ticket?

Irrelevant in a topic about FGW.

 

[All Line Rover]

Irrelevant in a topic about FGW.

Relevant to the post. Even on FGW, unless they got a seat, what other benefits would justify commuters paying extra for a First Class season ticket? A cleaner loo?

 

[dvboy]

That is correct, but I doubt many people would buy First Class season tickets if they did not get a seat each morning. The idea that First Class travellers are guaranteed a seat is strongly implied, although, of course, there is no compensation available if that is not the case!

If First Class is declassified then compensation would be payable to those holding a First Class ticket on that train.

 

[All Line Rover]

If First Class is declassified then compensation would be payable to those holding a First Class ticket on that train.

I was not referring to First Class being declassified. I was referring to First Class being full, which in my experience happens in less than 5% of cases.

 

[dvboy]

Could you please give me one other reason why Southeastern commuters pay for a First Class season ticket?

No because I don't know what Southeastern offers passengers in First Class, or whether Southeastern has the same capacity problems as FGW.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was not referring to First Class being declassified. I was referring to First Class being full, which in my experience happens in less than 5% of cases.

Which is exactly why it should be declassified when Standard is full.

 

[amcluesent]

FC travellers pay the huge premium to remain blissfully unaware of shenanigan beyond the metaphorical 'blue curtain'.

 

[All Line Rover]

No because I don't know what Southeastern offers passengers in First Class, or whether Southeastern has the same capacity problems as FGW.

Well I'll let you in on something then.

• The seats are identical
• The legroom is identical
• There are no proper tables on most services (whereas there are in Standard Class)
• No refreshments are provided
• There is no door separating First Class from Standard Class - just a sticker
• Complimentary antimacassars are provided

So apart from being guaranteed a seat, why else would people pay for a First Class season ticket?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Which is exactly why it should be declassified when Standard is full.

That is your opinion, but I doubt most TOC's would agree with you. If First Class was declassified every time Standard Class was full, their levels of First Class customers would plummet. Also, First Class customers would claim compensation each time First Class was declassified, which would mean the TOC loses lots of revenue.

I'm not saying that First Class is necessary - indeed, I like Southeastern's High Speed service very much - but if a TOC feels that First Class is necessary, I don't think many people would upgrade unless they got a seat each day.

 

[dvboy]

Well I'll let you in on something then.

• The seats are identical
• The legroom is identical
• There are no proper tables on most services (whereas there are in Standard Class)
• No refreshments are provided
• There is no door separating First Class from Standard Class - just a sticker
• Complimentary antimacassars are provided

So apart from being guaranteed a seat, why else would people pay for a First Class season ticket?

No idea. Can you tell me how many people actually hold First Class season tickets to travel on these Southeastern services, and how that compares to Standard Class?

How many of these people are simply Standard Class paying passengers sitting in First Class, given the little difference and "just a sticker" to identify it.

I know that's what I would do given the opportunity.

That is your opinion, but I doubt most TOC's would agree with you. If First Class was declassified every time Standard Class was full, their levels of First Class customers would plummet.

The number of First Class passengers they'd lose compared to the number of extra Standard Class passengers they could convey, would more than even things out.

Even better when you think of a potential reduction in complaints and a better reputation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm not saying that First Class is necessary - indeed, I like Southeastern's High Speed service very much - but if a TOC feels that First Class is necessary, I don't think many people would upgrade unless they got a seat each day.

If Southeastern thought First Class was necessary they'd have put it on High Speed.

Was First Class a better offering on their trains before Southeastern? If so, that may be only the reason it's there still.