Class 175s to GWR

[biglads]

16 units in Devon & Cornwall with only one of them out there earning is abysmal in all honestly.

 

[driverd]

16 units in Devon & Cornwall with only one of them out there earning is abysmal in all honestly.

I'm going to hazard a guess that 004 and 010 are both for static training (unless they're being stored)?

That improves fleet availability from just 6% to.....


7%

 

[Apedlar12]

I'm going to hazard a guess that 004 and 010 are both for static training (unless they're being stored)?

That improves fleet availability from just 6% to.....


7%

Yeah since 004 and 010 came down they haven't left Exeter and Penzance.

010 was brought down by a couple of 37s if I remember correctly straight from Ely, but 004 came down under its own power from Wolverton.

 

[jamieh27]

There are multiple rumours, but I am guessing some serious contingency planning must be on the table by now. The first 175s arrived over 18 months ago, and they just don't seem to be fixable to the point of doing 1000 fault free miles.

There have been talk of the TfW 158s, even some of the TfW 150s (others are virtually out of miles before expensive overhaul).

But there were supposed to be enhancements, Cornwall metro, some lengthening of Bristol area trains, Okehampton, Portishead, Restoring 4 or 5car on Cardiff-Portsmouth etc. If 175s don't work need extra other stock for this.

The frustration is that there are spare EMUs, but because of the lack of extending electrification, they are going for scrap, whilst the 34-40 diesel units struggle on, but have no replacements on order.

In blunt terms, currently policy is 175s or nothing, and with 175s continuing not to work, nothing is accidently becoming the outcome, but continuing nothing with a fleet approaching 40 years old is not practical, hence the ideas of scrabbling around for whatever can be got.

The only unit thats in passenger service is 175003 with a potential 175002 (minor issues) as they seem to be two good units with most of the 175/1 at Wolverton.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Friday at 16:14 ==

I don't think there are that many 387s spare

There was a plan for GWR to take TfW 158s but they couldn't due to lack of new rolling stocks from TfW also what 287s can GWR run on without OHLE?

 

[REVUpminster]

115 working Newquay. 112+113 mileage accumulation. 003 must be having a rest.

There are five turbos working Paignton with a 158 and an "overformed" 150. One turbo on Okehampton and one on Barnstaple. Probably recognised the passenger numbers on a Saturday.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Saturday at 08:59 ==

I've brought forward Aedlar's table with BillStampy's arrival dates on GWR. I've put a W against those that have been to Wolverton.

175001 - Laira T&RSMD 5 November 2025 W
175002 - Laira T&RSMD 27 November 2024
175003 - Laira T&RSMD 18 September 2025 W
175004 - Exeter TMD 23 June 2026 W
175005 - Wolverton Works by Road 1 July 2026
175006 - Laira T&RSMD 10 December 2025 W
175007 - Laira T&RSMD 28 February 2025
175009 - Laira T&RSMD 27 January 2025
175010 - Penzance T&RSMD 13 January 2026
175011 - Laira T&RSMD 10 December 2025 W

175101 - Laira T&RSMD 23 January 2026 W
175102 - Wolverton Works
175103 - Wolverton Works
175104 - Ely Mlf Papworth Sidings
175105 - Wolverton Works
175106 - Wolverton Works
175107 - Wolverton Works
175108 - Wolverton Works
175109 - Wolverton Works
175110 - Wolverton Works
175111 - Laira T&RSMD 20 March 2026 W
175112 - Laira T&RSMD 20 February 2026 W
175113 - Laira T&RSMD 15 May 2026 W
175114 - Laira T&RSMD 5 December 2024
175115 - Laira T&RSMD 13 April 2026 W
175116 - Laira T&RSMD 28 May 2026 W

175008 some reports say half went to Wolverton by road. Hopefully I have it right.

 

[Goldfish62]

An email has been sent to stakeholders updating on the latest Class 175 position. There are timetable reductions from 7th September while the issues with the 175s are sorted out before they enter / re-enter service.

Email text below. I don't have a source link but on this occasion this has been okay'd by the mods.

Update today on Class 175 trains from GWR>

As we approach the end of summer, we wanted to write to you regarding our Class 175 fleet of trains. As you may be aware, we introduced these to our fleet in Devon and Cornwall at the end of 2025 as we removed the last of our Castle Class HST sets from service. Those trains were the most expensive to maintain, and the biggest contributor of pollutants in our fleet so as we rightly look to reduce the level of taxpayer subsidy required taking those trains out of service was necessary.

The introduction of the 26 Class 175s is designed to improve capacity and resilience in Devon and Cornwall and provide a better experience for our customers. However, the 15 trains transferred to GWR to date have required a higher level of recommissioning work than expected following a prolonged period in storage and out of service. The introduction of these trains has been further affected in passenger service by technical issues, which now require immediate and targeted attention to ensure the fleet delivers the reliability and benefits our customers, the communities we serve, and our colleagues expect. As a result, we know performance and punctuality on our routes in Devon and Cornwall hasn’t been good enough recently. There have been too many cancellations and delays, and customers and colleagues are rightly frustrated.

To address the consistent performance issues and the frequent short-notice cancellations brought about by the issues outlined above, we are planning a limited number of timetable reductions to come into effect from Monday 7 September. These changes – 6 cancellations on a weekday, and a smaller number on a Saturday, between Penzance and Plymouth/Exeter – will help to provide certainty for customers instead of the ad-hoc cancellations we’ve had to make over recent weeks, and help protect capacity for the rest of our services in Devon and Cornwall.

To ensure we can deliver the long-term reliability and capacity benefits that we believe the Class 175s will bring, and so we can return to a full timetable as soon as possible, we’re introducing an improvement plan based around including the key interventions which we believe will deliver a more robust and reliable fleet:
* **Enhanced pre-service assurances – **once reported defects have been fixed, each unit will undergo additional checks to identify any related or emerging issues before the train returns to passenger service. The aim is to go beyond fixing the immediate fault and give greater confidence that the unit is ready for sustained operation.


* We’ve introduced a **Class 175 1,000-mile fault-free running period **for each train before it goes into passenger service. Trains must complete the distance in simulated passenger operation without any significant faults occurring. This provides a more realistic test of reliability and greater confidence before trains are released into service.


* A **dedicated technical investigation team **has been put in place, including specialists from GWR and Angel Trains, who own the trains, and original manufacturers, Alstom. That team will carry out a full forensic review of all reported defects, using new and existing data to better understand why faults are happening and how maintenance and repair regimes can be strengthened.

It will take some time for these measures to take full effect, and we recognise the inconvenience caused as we work through this difficult period. We will of course continue to keep you updated as the improvement plan progresses, and if you do have any questions please do get in touch.

 

[matt]

Just a reminder folks that this thread is just to discuss what is actually happening with the Class 175 introduction.

Anything else such as suggestions you what might happen go in this thread
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-to-introduction-of-class-175-for-gwr.305780/ or any other suitable thread.

 

[Apedlar12]

115 working Newquay. 112+113 mileage accumulation. 003 must be having a rest.

There are five turbos working Paignton with a 158 and an "overformed" 150. One turbo on Okehampton and one on Barnstaple. Probably recognised the passenger numbers on a Saturday.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Saturday at 08:59 ==

I've brought forward Aedlar's table with BillStampy's arrival dates on GWR. I've put a W against those that have been to Wolverton.

175001 - Laira T&RSMD 5 November 2025 W
175002 - Laira T&RSMD 27 November 2024
175003 - Laira T&RSMD 18 September 2025 W
175004 - Exeter TMD 23 June 2026 W
175005 - Wolverton Works by Road 1 July 2026
175006 - Laira T&RSMD 10 December 2025 W
175007 - Laira T&RSMD 28 February 2025
175009 - Laira T&RSMD 27 January 2025
175010 - Penzance T&RSMD 13 January 2026
175011 - Laira T&RSMD 10 December 2025 W

175101 - Laira T&RSMD 23 January 2026 W
175102 - Wolverton Works
175103 - Wolverton Works
175104 - Ely Mlf Papworth Sidings
175105 - Wolverton Works
175106 - Wolverton Works
175107 - Wolverton Works
175108 - Wolverton Works
175109 - Wolverton Works
175110 - Wolverton Works
175111 - Laira T&RSMD 20 March 2026 W
175112 - Laira T&RSMD 20 February 2026 W
175113 - Laira T&RSMD 15 May 2026 W
175114 - Laira T&RSMD 5 December 2024
175115 - Laira T&RSMD 13 April 2026 W
175116 - Laira T&RSMD 28 May 2026 W

175008 some reports say half went to Wolverton by road. Hopefully I have it right.

I know that half of 008 is still up in Ely, so the other half being in Wolverton would make sense, especially if they are using it as a donor for the other units currently having work done there.

 

[GBM]

From Journeycheck today
16:22 Par to Newquay due 17:14
16:22 Par to Newquay due 17:14 will be cancelled.
This is due to a late running train being in front of this one.


However, RTT» shows
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C42612/2026-08-29/detailed#allox_id=0
2N14 1338 Par to Newquay 175115 seems to have vanished on entering Goonbarrow Junction!
Then returned to Par at 1533 as 2N15.

Now parked in Par Chapel sidings as 5N15.

 

[BillStampy]

From Journeycheck today
16:22 Par to Newquay due 17:14
16:22 Par to Newquay due 17:14 will be cancelled.
This is due to a late running train being in front of this one.


However, RTT» shows
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C42612/2026-08-29/detailed#allox_id=0
2N14 1338 Par to Newquay 175115 seems to have vanished on entering Goonbarrow Junction!
Then returned to Par at 1533 as 2N15.

Now parked in Par Chapel sidings as 5N15.

1C99 is the problem. It's over 40 minutes late, hence why the service has been cancelled as it would just cause more delays on the mostly single track line.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

An email has been sent to stakeholders updating on the latest Class 175 position. There are timetable reductions from 7th September while the issues with the 175s are sorted out before they enter / re-enter service.

Email text below. I don't have a source link but on this occasion, but this has been okay'd by the mods.

One would have thought that they would have had this in place months ago when it was obvious that these trains were not as described in the "brochure"

* A **dedicated technical investigation team **has been put in place, including specialists from GWR and Angel Trains, who own the trains, and original manufacturers, Alstom. That team will carry out a full forensic review of all reported defects, using new and existing data to better understand why faults are happening and how maintenance and repair regimes can be strengthened.

Anyhow at least they've owned up to the issues but it doesn't tell the local users when things will improve.

 

[John R]

Those trains were the most expensive to maintain, and the biggest contributor of pollutants in our fleet so as we rightly look to reduce the level of taxpayer subsidy required taking those trains out of service was necessary.

A longer way of saying "Don't blame the management, we were told to do so."

 

[REVUpminster]

An email has been sent to stakeholders updating on the latest Class 175 position. There are timetable reductions from 7th September while the issues with the 175s are sorted out before they enter / re-enter service.

Email text below. I don't have a source link but on this occasion this has been okay'd by the mods.

This letter says 15 trains. Which one have we got wrong, and where is it?

 

[BillStampy]

175115 failed at Par. 5N28 to Laira

 

[Apedlar12]

175115 back out on Newquay again today.

150238 and 150246 covering the other two diagrams.

 

[dk1]

175115 back out on Newquay again today.

150238 and 150246 covering the other two diagrams.

From what I gather 150238 then had a fire which has now been extinguished.

 

[XFeed]

175115 back out on Newquay again today

Couldn`t have been to much of a failure yesterday with it back out agaiin today.

 

[BillStampy]

Couldn`t have been to much of a failure yesterday with it back out agaiin today.

Worked fine today too.

Lets see what's allocated tomorrow then!

 

[XFeed]

Worked fine today too.

That`s what we like to hear

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

An email has been sent to stakeholders updating on the latest Class 175 position. There are timetable reductions from 7th September while the issues with the 175s are sorted out before they enter / re-enter service.

Email text below. I don't have a source link but on this occasion this has been okay'd by the mods.

I'm impressed they've acknowledged the problems!

 

[REVUpminster]

Can only see 115 on the key 2C05 diagram.

 

[jimm]

It was shared in that FGW did the Hereford services and FGWL everything else. Herefords were HSTs of course.


My understanding was they were ordered to allow London South Wales to go up to half hourly. It could be both.

At the time of the order for the Class 180s in the autumn of 1997, the Cotswold Line was operated by two separate franchises - Thames Trains ran most of the services using Class 165 and 166 Turbo units, while the initial version of the GW Trains/FGW franchise ran HSTs on a small number of busy expresses operating from and to Hereford (I discount the weekday off-peak trip to Malvern and back, which ran as a Turbo much of time, while ostensibly being a GW service).

First Great Western Link did not exist until March 2004, when the Thames Trains franchise expired. Thames lost a beauty contest aginst FGW to decide who would operate the Paddington inner and outer suburban services and Cotswold Line from 2004 to 2006, pending a tender for an enlarged Greater Western franchise to start in 2006.

FGW quickly moved 180s on to Oxford and Cotswold Line because the 166s were struggling to handle the increasing number of passengers and the Turbos that this change freed up could be used to strengthen busy Thames Valley services, with the bonus of keeping the 180s closer to home base at Old Oak Common for maintenance purposes.

The 180s were ordered to enable half-hourly weekday frequencies on Paddington-Bristol Temple Meads and Paddington-Cardiff Central services and for duties where loadings did not justify an HST. This included off-peak and contra-peak duties to/from Cheltenham (with some of these extended to/from Worcester Shrub Hill) and the odd Berks & Hants semi-fast to Devon, as already noted up the thread. There was also an out-and-back Class 180 trip via Oxford and the Cotswold Line to Hereford on Sundays, prior to the creation of First Great Western Link and the big move of 180s to the route.

 

[43096]

FGW quickly moved 180s on to Oxford and Cotswold Line because the 166s were struggling to handle the increasing number of passengers and the Turbos that this change freed up could be used to strengthen busy Thames Valley services, with the bonus of keeping the 180s closer to home base at Old Oak Common for maintenance purposes.

Those 180s were made available by FGW taking on lease five extra HST sets after Project Rio finished.

The 180s were ordered to enable half-hourly weekday frequencies on Paddington-Bristol Temple Meads and Paddington-Cardiff Central services and for duties where loadings did not justify an HST. This included off-peak and contra-peak duties to/from Cheltenham (with some of these extended to/from Worcester Shrub Hill) and the odd Berks & Hants semi-fast to Devon, as already noted up the thread. There was also an out-and-back Class 180 trip via Oxford and the Cotswold Line to Hereford on Sundays, prior to the creation of First Great Western Link and the big move of 180s to the route.

Before the 180s were ordered GWT had intended to create some 1+4 half HST sets. The idea was they would run to Swindon (or Bristol Parkway?) then split with half to Bristol TM and half to Cardiff. Growth in passengers knocked the idea on the head and the 180s were ordered instead on the back of the NWT order with GEC-Alsthom.

 

[superalbs]

Those 180s were made available by FGW taking on lease five extra HST sets after Project Rio finished.

Before the 180s were ordered GWT had intended to create some 1+4 half HST sets. The idea was they would run to Swindon (or Bristol Parkway?) then split with half to Bristol TM and half to Cardiff. Growth in passengers knocked the idea on the head and the 180s were ordered instead on the back of the NWT order with GEC-Alsthom.

At risk of going off-topic, what on earth? Would they have added cabs to the Mk3 trailers, or used DVTs, or what?

 

[brad465]

I'm guessing 175003 and 175115 are the only two units that have cleared the 1000 mile fault-free testing so far.

 

[43096]

At risk of going off-topic, what on earth? Would they have added cabs to the Mk3 trailers, or used DVTs, or what?

They would have added cabs to the Mark 3 trailers. The design work was done, I believe.

 

[Snow1964]

I'm guessing 175003 and 175115 are the only two units that have cleared the 1000 mile fault-free testing so far.

To put 1000 miles into perspective

Penzance to Exeter about 10 times (or 5 return trips) for 1000 miles
If they did Penzance-Taunton instead, then about 4 return trips

Taunton isn't in normal operating area, but they are delivered via Taunton

 

[Harpo]

At risk of going off-topic, what on earth? Would they have added cabs to the Mk3 trailers, or used DVTs, or what?

Hardly a new idea either as there had been a plan for single power car sets for the NE-SW axis now lovingly (!) called Cross Country.

 

[Apedlar12]

I'm guessing 175003 and 175115 are the only two units that have cleared the 1000 mile fault-free testing so far.

Yes, but 115 has been the only one used for the last few days, 003 has disappeared.

To put 1000 miles into perspective

Penzance to Exeter about 10 times (or 5 return trips) for 1000 miles
If they did Penzance-Taunton instead, then about 4 return trips

Taunton isn't in normal operating area, but they are delivered via Taunton

Although the 1000 mile fault free running is being done out of service, so it would just be the trips between Exeter and Plymouth or Plymouth and Penzance mainly.

 

[brad465]

To put 1000 miles into perspective

Penzance to Exeter about 10 times (or 5 return trips) for 1000 miles
If they did Penzance-Taunton instead, then about 4 return trips

Taunton isn't in normal operating area, but they are delivered via Taunton

I suspect the danger here is if a unit fails, the trek back to Laira is longer and potentially more disruptive if breaking down near Taunton.