Lewes derailment - Thursday 13th August

[NSEWonderer]

Would the driver have felt the derailment from his cab?

Doubt it, the rails seem to have fully deformed enough to break gauging not long after the first car of the rear unit passed over the point of fault.

Depending how bad the ride quality down that section is, it might not have even felt any different intially. Certainly anyone on the rear unit would have ended up noticing.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Does not appear to be casualties so that at least is good.

 

[FuzzyDuck]

Does not appear to be casualties so that at least is good.

BBC report is saying there are two serious injuries.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

BBC report is saying there are two serious injuries.

Oh good lord. How sad.

 

[GrandOldDukeOf]

Did you text 61016?

Not really sure that rough rides are within the BTPs remit?

 

[gabrielhj07]

Not really sure that rough rides are within the BTPs remit?

They’d be inundated if so.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Does not appear to be casualties so that at least is good.

No fatalities, but several injuries, two reported as serious.

 

[mrblws]

Very sad to hear that there have been two serious injuries in the derailment outside Lewes, according to reports on Sky News

https://news.sky.com/story/police-fire-service-and-paramedics-on-scene-as-train-derails-13571690

The South East Coast Ambulance Service has given its first major update on the incident, announcing two people have suffered serious injuries.

Nine others are less seriously injured.

Around 150 people were on board at the time of the derailment, it adds.

The ambulance service says it is continuing to respond to the "major incident", with other emergency services remaining at the scene.

"There were approximately 150 people on board the train at the time of the incident," it says.

"At this stage, we can confirm that two patients have sustained serious injuries and a further nine patients have sustained less serious injuries."

Patients were assessed and treated at the scene, it adds, with some transported to local hospitals for further treatment.

"A number of passengers who did not require hospital treatment have been taken to a local community centre, where they are being supported by partner agencies," it adds.

I hope they make a speedy recovery.

From the pictures I've seen online it happened somewhere between Offham and Lewes where the line follows the Ouse for about a mile.

There has been a rough section of track there ever since I began commuting from Lewes over 20 years ago, to the extent that noone getting off at Lewes would stand up until we had gone over it for fear of falling over. It only affected the down line, where the derailment happened, never the up. I guess with the heat it finally failed.

 

[marshlinker]

The area is relatively near to civilisation, so some form of response should have been available quickly. There is a fire station in Barcombe, and police in Lewes.

The hq of both Sussex Police and East Sussex Fire and Rescue are less than a mile away as the crow flies on the other side of the River Ouse in Malling, Lewes. You can probably see the derailment from the upper floors of their offices.

 

[LRV3004]

As shocking as the pictures are to look at, one minor positive (if anything), is that the carriages appear to have held up pretty well throughout the incident.

 

[ainsworth74]

Possible service changes due to climate change are not on-topic in this thread. For one thing we do not know what actually caused the accident yet. Therefore if anyone would like to discuss what we might need to do to adapt to climate change please start a new thread.
Edit: a thread for this can now be found here:

Climate adaptation challenges facing a railway built for a very different world?

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/lewes-derailment-thread-thursday-13th-august.305792/ From the suggestions above wasn't something similar experienced in the recent Spanish incident where the driver didn't realise/wasn't notified an incident had occured further...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Sussex hammer]

One positive (if you can call it that) is there are only two serious injured and no fatalities. Carriages look pretty much intact after derailing and tipping over down the embankment.

Scary for all those involved and huge applause for the emergency services and rescuers.

 

[Acey]

Doubt it, the rails seem to have fully deformed enough to break gauging not long after the first car of the rear unit passed over the point of fault.

Depending how bad the ride quality down that section is, it might not have even felt any different intially. Certainly anyone on the rear unit would have ended up noticing.

Having had three derailments in my railway career, albeit they were in a yard so low speed (5mph), if the driving coach derails (twice), you certainly feel itgets somewhat bumpy.

When I had a rearmost unit derail, all I felt was a reduction in motive power for 5 seconds or so, until someone called out to me that I was "in the dirt"; the brake pipes stayed intact!

 

[AlterEgo]

As shocking as the pictures are to look at, one minor positive (if anything), is that the carriages appear to have held up pretty well throughout the incident.

We don't know that yet. The Croydon tram crash killed several people who fell out of windows and underneath the toppling tram. It looked very benign at first viewing.

 

[Recessio]

We don't know that yet. The Croydon tram crash killed several people who fell out of windows and underneath the toppling tram. It looked very benign at first viewing.

It's been confirmed there's no fatalities at the scene. Two serious injuries so far.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Indeed but until the derailed carriages are lifted, taken to a works for forensic inspection, we don't know yet what structural damage there is

 

[AlterEgo]

It's been confirmed there's no fatalities at the scene. Two serious injuries so far.

We still don't know the nature of the injuries. Given the primary risk in this crash is a passenger ejection from a broken window - which does not always result in a fatality - I don't think we should jump to any conclusions about the stock yet. People saying it's "held up well"...in what context? We don't know the speed of the incident. The carriages being structurally intact is entirely expected in a rollover, the major risk is with the side of the train that cannot be seen.

 

[EYFanatic]

It's been confirmed there's no fatalities at the scene. Two serious injuries so far.

Thats good - that there are no deaths so far... Not that they are injured of course. As for the carriages, they seem to have held up so far exceptionally well though the proof will be when they get them upright again

I don't think it is off topic to ask, but when was the last derailment of a train (so avoiding the tram incident) where there was a fatality?

 

[AlterEgo]

Thats good - that there are no deaths so far... Not that they are injured of course. As for the carriages, they seem to have held up so far exceptionally well though the proof will be when they get them upright again

I don't think it is off topic to ask, but when was the last derailment of a train (so avoiding the tram incident) where there was a fatality?

Bedford involved a derailment though it was not the cause of the fatality. Stonehaven then? Or do you mean a simple rollover incident?

 

[saismee]

We still don't know the nature of the injuries. Given the primary risk in this crash is a passenger ejection from a broken window - which does not always result in a fatality - I don't think we should jump to any conclusions about the stock yet. People saying it's "held up well"...in what context? We don't know the speed of the incident. The carriages being structurally intact is entirely expected in a rollover, the major risk is with the side of the train that cannot be seen.

From some pictures I have seen (which I will not be posting here), it does seem to have held up decently well and the interiors are intact. I'm surprised there weren't more injuries as anything in the luggage racks would've well and truly landed on passengers on the opposite side of the carriages which I expect could've/would've caused a lot of injury. It doesn't appear that the train was heavily loaded but I do not know the average loadings on these trains.

I think the windows on a modern (air quotes optional) commuter train would hold up a lot better than a tram (such as the Croydon tram derailment you mentioned), but it's too soon to suggest that passengers being ejected is impossible/unlikely. I'm unsure of any similar incidents involving an Electrostar unit to compare to.

We still don't know the actual speed of the train or the true cause of the derailment so we cannot tell what the cause of the injuries is. Derailment due to buckled rails caused by heat is still just speculation.

 

[EYFanatic]

Bedford involved a derailment though it was not the cause of the fatality. Stonehaven then? Or do you mean a simple rollover incident?

Rollover - I did think Stonehaven but then thought maybe another I had forgot about

 

[Shimbleshanks]

I was on the train half an hour before this one and there was a massive jolt between Cooksbridge and Lewes, easily the worst one I've ever felt. I'd have assumed the driver reported it but judging by what's happened, it doesn't seem that way.

I travelled the route yesterday morning (down direction) and back in the afternoon (up direction). Didn't notice anything untoward.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With regard to the tram, a significant factor was that it was single glazed. All UK trains since the Pacers have double glazed windows, though odd bits of glass eg the hoppers on 15x and the doors on CAF units are single.

 

[Haywain]

We still don't know the nature of the injuries.

No, but they have been described as 'serious' at worst and not 'life threatening' or 'life changing', so this should be seen as relatively positive.

 

[AlterEgo]

Rollover - I did think Stonehaven but then thought maybe another I had forgot about

Grayrigg was another. This was more a classic derailment down an embankment.

 

[Haywain]

From the BBC news report the location of the incident today can be found on Google Maps opposite Landport Road, Lewes. The curve in the river at that point identifies the location.

 

[mrblws]

I travelled the route yesterday morning (down direction) and back in the afternoon (up direction). Didn't notice anything untoward.

Defending my earlier post, perhaps, but I've been a commuter on that line for more than 20 years and there was always a definite jolt on the down line around where the derailment occurred. Maybe the driver wouldn't feel it, but the passengers did. It was bad enough that you wouldn't stand up until you'd gone over it.

 

[rmHawk765]

I am sure the driver was totally professional and did a fantastic job.

No, of course, according to the other posts that's exactly what happened.

 

[king_walnut]

We still don't know the actual speed of the train or the true cause of the derailment so we cannot tell what the cause of the injuries is. Derailment due to buckled rails caused by heat is still just speculation.

I sign this route. The train called at Cooksbridge so I'd say with some confidence that it would have been doing around 40mph where it derailed.

 

[Mattplans]

I sign this route. The train called at Cooksbridge so I'd say with some confidence that it would have been doing around 40mph where it derailed.

Do you know if it's possible if there is/was a TSR/ESR in operation? I can see no services have called at Cooksbridge OT today (with services generally picking up 4+ mins in this area), so it's possible it might've/should've been going even slower?