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The mighty Class 74 (some questions!)

Bald Rick

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I have come into possession of some of old father BR’s photos. I knew there was one in there of a 74.

The caption in the album says “May 1975, Class 74 on a Salisbury Express”. That seems unlikely, not least the 90 headcode. But did the loco make it past Bournemouth?

Apologies for the photo quality, evidently he pressed the shutter too soon, and it’s over 50 years old!


BBFB3CA8-4885-401D-AAD0-C99AC3C167DC.jpeg
 
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Gloster

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I have come into possession of some of old father BR’s photos. I knew there was one in there of a 74.

The caption in the album says “May 1975, Class 74 on a Salisbury Express”. That seems unlikely, not least the 90 headcode. But did the loco make it past Bournemouth?

Apologies for the photo quality, evidently he pressed the shutter too soon, and it’s over 50 years old!


View attachment 194922

90 means it was a Weymouth Quay Boat Train. The 74 would have replaced a 33 at Bournemouth.
 

nw1

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Was trying to figure out where that was, but obviously somewhere up line from Basingstoke.

Even though it's the mid 70s the signage and type of lighting was very much as I remember in the pre-NSE part of the 80s.

The 74 though, very much not - sadly a class that came and went before my time.

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I hope i can be forgiven, but i have been pointed to an old video - which has 2 or maybe 3 Class 74s (and others) in it! Please slow the video down to 0.25 speed, and its a case of spot all the old stock!

Very interesting. Long enough ago to seem like a bygone and unfamiliar era even for someone like myself who started using the SWD regularly back in 1982. Not just the trains, but the style of signage, adverts, etc.

Evidently just before the mass introduction of the CIG and VEP stock that would be the mainstay of the SWD in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Spotted just one CIG/VEP/REP/TC.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

After a couple of hours 'refreshment' stop in Bournemouth we were treated to a blistering non-stop run back to Waterloo behind 74 007 taking an hour and twenty minutes.

1hr20 from Bournemouth to Waterloo?

That is incredible if so. Mind you I do see that in 1982, the '91's did Waterloo-Bournemouth hourly in 1hr36, and Waterloo-Southampton in 1hr07. I guess we've now got used to slower timings so these late-BR schedules seem incredibly fast nowadays.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

A Class 74 was a regular performer on what I think was the 7.17 from Eastleigh to Waterloo. Usually the74 was at the head of the 11TC formation, but occasionally at the rear. On at least one occasion it was sandwiched between 8TC and 3TC! There was also the occasional substitution of a Class 73.

Interesting - another forum member sent me the 1974 Table 158 some time ago and this was a stopper as far as Farnborough, then Woking and Waterloo.
 
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Harlequinuk

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Are these the same recordings?

Yes.

Not my video, however i do believe permission from Grahame was sort (by Mike whos channel it is) also supplied his own recordings as well.

Fantastic to hear the sound of a loco, all cut up near 50 years ago! One for the history books
 

Harlequinuk

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1hr20 from Bournemouth to Waterloo?

That is incredible if so. Mind you I do see that in 1982, the '91's did Waterloo-Bournemouth hourly in 1hr36, and Waterloo-Southampton in 1hr07. I guess we've now got used to slower timings so these late-BR schedules seem incredibly fast nowadays.
There is a thread on the 4REP , i do believe timings for the express ; headcode 91 Waterloo to Bournemouth and Weymouth (and 92, the return trip) are mentioned for that particular `rocket ship`, `the Deltic of the Southern Region`
 

nw1

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There is a thread on the 4REP , i do believe timings for the express ; headcode 91 Waterloo to Bournemouth and Weymouth (and 92, the return trip) are mentioned for that particular `rocket ship`, `the Deltic of the Southern Region`

Yes - I've seen that thread. For point of order 92 wasn't the return trip; the express was 91 both ways. Headcodes on all services through the Woking area were bi-directional.
92 was the hourly semi-fast which called at Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh, Brockenhurst, New Milton and Christchurch in addition to the 91 stops.

The 91 and 92 did interwork at Waterloo, though, due to the timings.
 

Harlequinuk

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This fantastic video popped up today ; it starts with colour video of the Night Ferry!

 

AndrewE

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a bit OT, but is there a cleared signal at 1 min 45 in that video? There must be...
 

Sun Chariot

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Apologies that this is likely 71, not 74, related... 3-4 years ago now, whilst perusing boat train photos of the 1960s and early 1970s, one image-result was an electric blue liveried class 71 (presume) pre-TOPS era.
My memory cannot recall if the train was Night Ferry, Golden Arrow, or another boat train.

I have yet to find that image again. Does it ring any bells? Do you know which loco was painted thus? It looked stunning.
 

Harlequinuk

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2 of the 74 on the boat train at Southampton. BR Blue?
 

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Big Jumby 74

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I have yet to find that image again. Does it ring any bells? Do you know which loco was painted thus? It looked stunning.
Have checked the Southern Way Special edition 14, relating to classes 71/74, and can't find any reference to other than BR blue, the main livery discussion revolving around the application of yellow warning panels in varying styles etc.
Being a SW man myself, the 71's were only on my radar from my enthusiast head, and so my memories of them are largely from their stored days at both AF and HG, other than a run up the SWML on 13 Sept 92 behind the preserved E5001, which was a nice conclusion to a day when my own department (with volunteers to staff same !!!) had a stall I believe within the CM&EE shed at Bournemouth Depot for the open weekend in question.
 

Gloster

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Apologies that this is likely 71, not 74, related... 3-4 years ago now, whilst perusing boat train photos of the 1960s and early 1970s, one image-result was an electric blue liveried class 71 (presume) pre-TOPS era.
My memory cannot recall if the train was Night Ferry, Golden Arrow, or another boat train.

I have yet to find that image again. Does it ring any bells? Do you know which loco was painted thus? It looked stunning.

Could it be the variable quality of older colour film, both when taken or as it ages? And you can add the possibility of colour resolution during printing being off.
 

Big Jumby 74

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Could it be the variable quality of older colour film
That was what crossed my mind tbh, but I thought it best to check the limited sources I do have. As said, being a SW man, albeit with SE contacts from those days, some of whom are still with us (we shared HQ offices at Waterloo), I will ask, but that is all I can say. My SE/SC contacts are ex Planning to a large degree, not Fleet maintenance, where as I (SW wise) was closely involved with Fleet maintenance side during my time with SWT days.
 

Sun Chariot

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Thanks @Big Jumby 74 and @Gloster
The aspect that jumped out at me, was that the entire colour image was faithfully close to foliage, sky, the permanent way and rolling stock; and that the (presumed) 71 in question (no warning panel) was faithfully close in colour to AL1-AL5.
That's why it piqued my interest so much.
My grey cells think it was with either Golden Arrow Pullmans, or the Night Ferry stock.
 

Harlequinuk

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A question for the resident experts

Did the `74 work the `Ocean Liner Express` ? Was it still a named train then?
 

Sun Chariot

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A question for the resident experts

Did the `74 work the `Ocean Liner Express` ? Was it still a named train then?
Graham Muspratt's excellent website includes a photo of a Class 74 leaving Southampton’s old docks, for Waterloo, in May 1975. P&O’s Oriana is in the background.
I cannot determine which boat train service this is, though.

Page linked here

Photo is attached in this post (Photo credit: George Woods)
 

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D6130

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A question for the resident experts

Did the `74 work the `Ocean Liner Express` ? Was it still a named train then?
IIRC, there was no specific train named the Ocean Liner Express....it was merely a generic term used to describe the boat trains between Waterloo and Southampton Eastern or Western Docks and vice-versa. However in steam days, some of the boat trains carried headboards advertising the shipping company concerned....especially Cunard.

There were a number of 'Q' (conditional or as required) pathways in the working timetable....but additional services could be patched under special traffic arrangements - depending on such variable factors as tides and expected arrival/departure times of ships.

When I worked in the Special Traffic Section at the Wimbledon Divisional Manager's Office in 1977-78, we had a gentleman who was known as 'Mr Boat Train'. He had a rare job that encompassed both the commercial and operational side of organising the ocean liner expresses. Always immaculately-dressed in a smart suit and tie, he spent a lot of time out of the office having meetings with - and being wined and dined by - the shipping companies. When he did show up in the office, it would usually be to give me a piece of paper - and copies for the relevant diagramming sections - for inclusion in the weekly Special Traffic Notice of an additional boat train that he had timed himself.

Incidentally, he also organised the annual office Christmas dinner....which I recall took place at the Berni Inn (remember them?) at Hampton Court. I expect that @Big Jumby 74 Will have known the gentleman concerned.
 

Sun Chariot

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@Harlequinuk apologies, i've just realised that the credited, linked image I attached into my post 173, is one of the two imqges you attached in your post 167. :)

The "duplicated" image was taken at the (now) freight only Western Quay. Until the late 1990s, access to that area was fairly easy; nowadays it's a no-no.
The other image you attached, is at the long-closed Terminus station. The former building is now a casino; and some of its former overall roof now merely covers a car park for adjacent premises. This link, you can see what it looks like these days
 

Big Jumby 74

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Incidentally, he also organised the annual office Christmas dinner.
R.L. Passed away two/three years ago, after doing a stint of contract work for SWR when they first took over from SWT. A demon with the 'arrows' over in the Alex at lunchtimes back then, before the alcohol ban came in of course.
 

D6130

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R.L. Passed away two/three years ago, after doing a stint of contract work for SWR when they first took over from SWT. A demon with the 'arrows' over in the Alex at lunchtimes back then, before the alcohol ban came in of course.
Sorry to hear that....he must have been a good age. :(
 

Big Jumby 74

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Sorry to hear that....he must have been a good age
Not really in this day and age, 72! The whisky and the roll up's probably didn't help, but one is entitled when all said and done, so I would never criticise anyone on that front. Let's just say he was one of DMO's characters!
 

Bald Rick

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When I worked in the Special Traffic Section at the Wimbledon Divisional Manager's Office in 1977-78, we had a gentleman who was known as 'Mr Boat Train'. He had a rare job that encompassed both the commercial and operational side of organising the ocean liner expresses.

How convenient to have a name the same as your job! :lol: :lol:
 

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