AWC Derailment at Shap Summit 03/11/25

[Warrior2852]

Surely the train is south of the landslip.

I was going off photos from earlier in the thread that seemingly showed the lines being buried by ballast, could be wrong about exact placement?
There is also the matter of the south-facing coupler has been destroyed which I presume would affect things.

 

[Adam0984]

Kirnow crane in Kirkstall Loop with a west coast 47/57 on the front assume its on its way to start the re railing process

 

[Warrior2852]

Interesting, so the NR Journey Planner shows nothing (perhaps deliberately) but the live departures board is confirming that they're running.

Not sure why you're getting that, I can see the usual S&C services on the journey planner too. Next listed leaves Carlisle 13:36.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not sure why you're getting that, I can see the usual S&C services on the journey planner too. Next listed leaves Carlisle 13:36.

Usually where you see odd stuff like this it's because you've accidentally left a "via" point in from a previous search, it doesn't take them out automatically and often results in nonsensical or non-existent results.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Usually where you see odd stuff like this it's because you've accidentally left a "via" point in from a previous search, it doesn't take them out automatically and often results in nonsensical or non-existent results.

In my case its often a TOC filter

 

[Lawrence18uk]

Live departures is showing Lancaster to Heysham, Leeds, Manchester, Windermere (some), Barrow/Corkickle are running.
Also shown is hourly service Preston - Lancaster etc

 

[NSEWonderer]

What a month this has been for the railway so far. 2 pretty serious incidents within the first 3 days. Thoughts go out to anyone affected

 

[Spartacus]

Kirnow crane in Kirkstall Loop with a west coast 47/57 on the front assume its on its way to start the re railing process

The schedule looks like it was created yesterday, so unlikely without a crystal ball. BRUFF team are on site.

 

[TUC]

How ? Both lines are blocked ? And ground unstable

It does beg the question how passengers with restricted mobility are evacuated in such circumstances?

 

[Efini92]

I was going off photos from earlier in the thread that seemingly showed the lines being buried by ballast, could be wrong about exact placement?
There is also the matter of the south-facing coupler has been destroyed which I presume would affect things.

I’m pretty sure it’s ahead of the landslip. The coupler doesn’t look like it’s taken much damage. Looks more like it’s just covered in dirt.

 

[800001]

It does beg the question how passengers with restricted mobility are evacuated in such circumstances?

normally with assistance of Fire Brigade

 

[Lawrence18uk]

Leeds - Carlisle trains on Journey Planner have now reappeared.
And Manch - Oxenholme (@ 14.50)

 

[Warrior2852]

I’m pretty sure it’s ahead of the landslip. The coupler doesn’t look like it’s taken much damage. Looks more like it’s just covered in dirt.

The image in post #54, the front of the train has taken quite a lot of damage around the nose area, I can't imagine that coupler being safe to use surely.

 

[brad465]

More than 50mm has fallen over Shap in the last 24 hours and there’s plenty more to come over the next 10 days.

This area is very vulnerable to high rainfall totals due to the topography and prevailing wind.

Playing any rainfall radar for this area overnight shows plenty of bouts of rainfall moving west to east, gaining intensity as it hits the high ground, then further east has either disappeared or is much weaker.

Given Shap is high up, the intensity here will be much higher than at sea level or the leeward side of high ground.

According to the live flood map, in the last 24 hours Wet Sleddale, the nearest gauge to Shap, received 51.9mm of rainfall, however Scalebeck to the east only received 11mm in the same period. Over the Lake District it was even higher, with several gauges seeing over 60mm and Honister apparently seeing 138mm! (the latter one is surrounded by several peaks over 600m above sea level)

 

[The Chimaera]

There is also the matter of the south-facing coupler has been destroyed which I presume would affect things.

Most definitely this.
The pipe work to extend the coupler will probably be damaged anyway. The air train pipe also goes to the coupler and will be need to be undamaged for the recovery even if the loco is on the northern end. I suspect even after the vehicle is rerailed recovery won’t be straight forward.

 

[sharpener]

It does beg the question how passengers with restricted mobility are evacuated in such circumstances?

Fire and Rescue, Ambulance services (both road and helo) and Mountain/Cave Rescue can all attend depending on the locality and terrain and all are trained to assist moving any casualties and the less mobile. Having said which I do not envy anyone however fit who has to walk on ballast for any distance let alone carrying anyone.

 

[Warrior2852]

TPE seem rather optimistic about line reopenings, because they've included Avanti services between Carlisle and Preston in their ticket acceptance.

Incident: Penrith | National Rail

major disruption between Carlisle and Preston. Find details of all current incidents on National Rail Enquiries.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

• Avanti West Coast between Carlisle and Preston, and between Scotland and Preston in both directions (once the line reopens)

 

[Adam0984]

The schedule looks like it was created yesterday, so unlikely without a crystal ball. BRUFF team are on site.

Fair dos, put 2 and 2 together and made 5

 

[Lawrence18uk]

Shap Wells Hotel does seem ideally located... 400m from the line, dunno how far down the line tho

 

[357]

The air train pipe also goes to the coupler and will be need to be undamaged for the recovery even if the loco is on the northern end.

Is there something on a pendolino preventing an end coach having the brakes/air isolated?

 

[Straus]

Shap Wells Hotel does seem ideally located... 400m from the line, dunno how far down the line tho

around 440 yds

 

[Spartacus]

It does beg the question how passengers with restricted mobility are evacuated in such circumstances?

Ideally you don't have to and you can get the train rescued before you need to, otherwise you call in the professionals in heavy handling, usually the emergency services in some form or another. Then the issue is transport to the access point, which might end being by PW trolley if there are any to hand. Safer than a long carry.

 

[Efini92]

Most definitely this.
The pipe work to extend the coupler will probably be damaged anyway. The air train pipe also goes to the coupler and will be need to be undamaged for the recovery even if the loco is on the northern end. I suspect even after the vehicle is rerailed recovery won’t be straight forward.

The coupler doesn’t need extending, there’s not nose cone anymore. The loco doesn’t use the air connection on the coupler, it uses a direction connection to the brake pipe.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Fire and Rescue, Ambulance services (both road and helo) and Mountain/Cave Rescue can all attend depending on the locality and terrain and all are trained to assist moving any casualties and the less mobile. Having said which I do not envy anyone however fit who has to walk on ballast for any distance let alone carrying anyone.

Probably fine for an experienced hillwalker in boots but much less so in heels!

 

[The Chimaera]

Is there something on a pendolino preventing an end coach having the brakes/air isolated?

No, there are cocks between vehicles if I remember right. but you would need to release the parking brake if the air was all drained out of the vehicle. They are spring worked. The amount of damage underneath to that equipment is an unknown factor. Dragging as a swinger shouldn’t be a problem as they have bar couplers between internal vehicles.

 

[D1511]

Ideally you don't have to and you can get the train rescued before you need to, otherwise you call in the professionals in heavy handling, usually the emergency services in some form or another. Then the issue is transport to the access point, which might end being by PW trolley if there are any to hand. Safer than a long carry.

At Greyrigg, they drafted in the local MRT to help

 

[Efini92]

No, there are cocks between vehicles if I remember right. but you would need to release the parking brake if the air was all drained out of the vehicle. They are spring worked. The amount of damage underneath to that equipment is an unknown factor. Dragging as a swinger shouldn’t be a problem as they have bar couplers between internal vehicles.

I would imagine they will put coach K on skates.

 

[357]

No, there are cocks between vehicles if I remember right. but you would need to release the parking brake if the air was all drained out of the vehicle. They are spring worked. The amount of damage underneath to that equipment is an unknown factor. Dragging as a swinger shouldn’t be a problem as they have bar couplers between internal vehicles.

Yes - I drive another type of Alstom unit of a similar age and was wondering if there was some difference.

I guess in the worst case they can put it on skates

 

[brad465]

Shap Wells Hotel does seem ideally located... 400m from the line, dunno how far down the line tho

While I don't know the exact situation at the hotel, a Sunday night/Monday morning in November is likely to be relatively quiet as well.

 

[jfollows]

At Greyrigg, they drafted in the local MRT to help

Mountain Rescue Team?