AWC Derailment at Shap Summit 03/11/25

[brad465]

Utter trivia of course, but it's bizarre to have major incidents declared on the WCML and ECML concurrently - I can't recall the last time.

Also not a million miles from the scene of the other notable Pendolino derailment at Grayrigg in 2007.

 

[pitdiver]

As a matter of interest will the Cally sleeper be using the ECML tonight?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Yeowch! Just shows how solid and well built the 390s are that the cab structure and windscreen are intact despite what was clearly a fairly substantial impact. It did it's job and protected the driver.

They’re fine trains with great structural integrity. 117 will probably be off for a good few months though.

 

[enginedin]

As a matter of interest will the Cally sleeper be using the ECML tonight?

Not yet (publicly) decided; according to their website:

Monday 3rd November​

We are aware of the ongoing incident in the Shap area and are working with our industry partners to understand the impact on our services this evening. We will have more information after 11am and will update this page and contact guests directly as soon as possible. Please contact us on Live Chat if you have any questions.

 

[MickeyN]

What will happen to the 4S50 Basford Hall to Coatbridge F.L.T.Currently at Bamfurlong Junction 172mins late?

 

[Cowley]

All your armchair expert discussion needs can be found in this handy new thread here:

Armchair experts?

mods note - split from this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/awc-derailment-at-shap-summit-03-11-25.294230/unread Is it a unique railway thing where bystanders and people observing events are so convinced that they know better than the people involved? Happens a lot among railway...

www.railforums.co.uk

Please don’t tell me that I could have done this better…

 

[driver9000]

Up to 80mph, the derailment is around the area where speed goes from 80mph to 110/EPS 125 IIRC.

Minor correction after Shap Summit on the Up speed rises to 105 with 120/125EPS to just beyond Tebay where it drops to 100 with 115/125EPS

 

[hexagon789]

Minor correction after Shap Summit on the Up speed rises to 105 with 120/125EPS to just beyond Tebay where it drops to 100 with 115/125EPS

Thanks for the correction

 

[38Cto15E]

Thank the good Lord that there was not a train approaching on the down line when the 390 derailed.

 

[D6130]

They’re fine trains with great structural integrity. 117 will probably be off for a good few months though.

What has happened to the undamaged first class driving vehicle from 390 033, which I believe remained on the track during the Grayrigg derailment?

 

[bengley]

What has happened to the undamaged first class driving vehicle from 390 033, which I believe remained on the track during the Grayrigg derailment?

Avanti training train at Crewe.

 

[D6130]

Avanti training train at Crewe.

Is it in any fit condition to be temporarily reinstated while the corresponding vehicle from 390 117 is being repaired?

 

[JUMOUK]

Has anyone had a look to see where the northbound service (if there was one) was at the time of the derailment? Given the position of the derailed unit, it looks like it could’ve potentially been far, far worse if it happened to be passing the northbound train at the same time

 

[Bantamzen]

Has anyone had a look to see where the northbound service (if there was one) was at the time of the derailment? Given the position of the derailed unit, it looks like it could’ve potentially been far, far worse if it happened to be passing the northbound train at the same time

Realtime Trains | 1S30 0457 Manchester Piccadilly to Glasgow Central | 03/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 1S30 0457 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Glasgow Central on 03/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Looks like it was stopped some way short thankfully.

 

[hexagon789]

Has anyone had a look to see where the northbound service (if there was one) was at the time of the derailment? Given the position of the derailed unit, it looks like it could’ve potentially been far, far worse if it happened to be passing the northbound train at the same time

1S30 Manchester to Glasgow was due past about 10-11 mins later.

 

[Archvile]

Is it in any fit condition to be temporarily reinstated while the corresponding vehicle from 390 117 is being repaired?

Definitely not. Alstom have been nicking parts off it for years.

 

[Strathclyder]

They’re fine trains with great structural integrity. 117 will probably be off for a good few months though.

Yep, Grayrigg was proof enough of their structural strength imho, despite the set as a whole being written off.

 

[DaveyJones]

Definitely not. Alstom have been nicking parts off it for years.

It's also not had the interior refurbishment or external repaint!

 

[londonmidland]

More than 50mm has fallen over Shap in the last 24 hours and there’s plenty more to come over the next 10 days.

Attached pictures below show how much rain has fallen over the past 24 hours at Shap, as well as how much more rainfall is to come, over the next 10 days.

 

[Efini92]

It's also not had the interior refurbishment or external repaint!

It’s had half an external repaint

 

[Harpo]

The other time factor to be added-in before train recovery and repairs can begin, is the time RAIB will take for their investigations before handing the site back. That will doubtless involve off-site investigations into the incident site’s management too. Reference to previous incidents caused by civil-engineering issues offer some background to that.

 

[Annetts key]

Ah ok, I wondered if it was something deliberately connected to the rail post accident, temporary earth, or signalling related.

Not anything to do with signalling. Apart from 650V power supply cables (which normally are only used in the cess / lineside) signalling cables are normally black rubber cables.

Not a surprise, given the damaged unit will need to be rerailed and dragged away and the track and earthworks will need to be inspected and repaired/secured/stablized. Rest of the week I can see it being closed.

May also have been damage to signalling cables given that some cross the six foot and the train wheels have ploughed through the ballast there.

Kind of surprised they walk people to evacuate in those circumstances rather than bringing a DMU alongside or behind. It must be quite awkward walking on the ballast if you aren't wearing suitable shoes or are infirm.

Well, years ago, before the maintenance budgets were cut, there were (in many places) gravel paths along either the up side or down side cess. These were lovely to walk along when they existed. Alas, either they are now covered in vegetation, have had spent ballast dumped on top, or have been damaged by relaying or ballast cleaning (really ballast removed and replaced) works.

 

[Archvile]

There are Landslip Early Warning Sensors in the location of the derailment. Either the slip was sudden, or the sensors didn't function correctly. Ironic either way.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Yep, Grayrigg was proof enough of their structural strength imho, despite the set as a whole being written off.

That set, of course, was thrown down a hill and onto its side, there should be no reason to write off 117.

What might be beneficial while its fixed, however, is to temporarily donate its two newer cars to a 9 carriage set, if it’s going to take a good few months which it will. Or, to temporarily pinch a 9 car’s driving carriage. Better to be down a 390/0 than a 390/1.

 

[chrisjo]

Realtime Trains | 1S30 0457 Manchester Piccadilly to Glasgow Central | 03/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 1S30 0457 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Glasgow Central on 03/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Looks like it was stopped some way short thankfully.

I'm pretty sure that when I looked at RTT earlier it had got as far as Lambrigg, which makes sense as that would have been almost the exact time that the derailment happened. It must have reversed back to OXN?

 

[Class385]

Was there any blanket restrictions in place the forecasted heavy rain?

 

[Straus]

Was there any blanket restrictions in place the forecasted heavy rain?

No

 

[Spartacus]

There are 4 access points closeby and I would think they were heading to one of these. Screenshots attached.

Yeah, nice easy access point with a large hotel nearby to wait for onward road transport.

 

[Bantamzen]

I'm pretty sure that when I looked at RTT earlier it had got as far as Lambrigg, which makes sense as that would have been almost the exact time that the derailment happened. It must have reversed back to OXN?

Yeah it did show that so presumably it reversed back as you say

 

[Guard86]

1S30 Manchester to Glasgow was due past about 10-11 mins later.

Ironically stopped at Greyrigg and went bang road back to Oxenholm, before crossing back onto the UP.