-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
GWR Class 230 Information, Movements & Discussion.
- Thread starter FGW_DID
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Class15
Established Member
Exactly what I was thinking. Battery trains have their place but Oxford needs wires.
Is it impressive? Electric buses are going further in the real world and they have far greater rolling resistance with rubber wheels rather than steel.
To be honest, I don't understand why the public sector is spending any money on battery train trials at all. Surely it is for the private train manufacturers to demonstrate that their products work if they want to win tenders?
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Starting a new thread on What implications does the latest battery train results have on future UK electrification ?.
It an interesting subject / speculation but not core to this 230 thread.
It an interesting subject / speculation but not core to this 230 thread.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
How fast did this battery train go? And it maintained a constant speed throughout?
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
I believe it's max speed is 60mph, and based on the RTT schedules, it stopped at Paddington (twice), Reading (twice), Slough and Oxford.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
It was limited to 40 mph on this run as that was the best speed to minimise drain on the batteries.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
Imagine doing that during the daytime in between service trains :
Chris125
Established Member
Completing Vivarail's work on a charging system for recycled 3rd/4th rail EMUs did make sense if such trains were likely to be used...
...but now new trains seem the only game in town for which overhead charging looks simpler, more flexible and is already well proven.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
I think that's why they did it as an all nighter!!!Imagine doing that during the daytime in between service trains :
Imagine doing that during the daytime in between service trains :
Well if battery trains are deployed for routes on which they are most suited (like the Thames Valley branches), that's not a massive issue.
If it is seen as some sort of replacement for continuous OLE work, then it's a much bigger problem.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
The main point of the 230 battery trials seems to have been to try out the fast charging possibilities for a train that spends little or no time on overhead 25KV AC. The main feature was that the supply of electricity from outside the railway only needed to be as much as is required in a normal built up area. So the power available to charge the batteries was limited. The fast charging is achieved by steadily charging fixed batteries at the charging station that the local supply can accommodate. Then when the battery train arrives the fixed batteries discharge a lot more quickly into the batteries on the train.
To charge a train fast directly from the outside supply would require a very expensive connection to the national grid not just a connection to the local three phase supply used for houses etc.
I expect fast charging need not be done from short rails below but could be just as well achieved from a wire above - maybe a wide strip as a lot of current is being passed. The 230 does not need a step down transformer to achieve this.
So I think it’s well understood that the conditions of the trial (slow speed, limited hotel power etc), only necessary station stops etc. and as such it doesn’t reflect “real world” usage, despite some of the sniping here and on other SM.
But I’d be interested to know what range is now considered realistic for daily usage. For one thing, AIUI, the intent would be to keep the charge between 20% and 80%, so that nearly halves it. And then you have all the points raised above, together with reduced charge in very cold weather and contingency (though arguably that could be the <20% buffer).
The other aspect is that the intent appears to be to continually top up, so the maths then becomes what does the end of day charge need to be given periodic top ups. Eg A 3 min turnaround after an hour’s travel would reduce the charge much more than, say, a 10 min turnaround each hour.
But I’d be interested to know what range is now considered realistic for daily usage. For one thing, AIUI, the intent would be to keep the charge between 20% and 80%, so that nearly halves it. And then you have all the points raised above, together with reduced charge in very cold weather and contingency (though arguably that could be the <20% buffer).
The other aspect is that the intent appears to be to continually top up, so the maths then becomes what does the end of day charge need to be given periodic top ups. Eg A 3 min turnaround after an hour’s travel would reduce the charge much more than, say, a 10 min turnaround each hour.
Railperf
Established Member
- Joined
- 30 Oct 2017
- Messages
- 3,683
There were several speed profiles in use depending on whether the train was running early or late and in response to anything In expected on the network. The speed profile was meticulously planned to get the most miles out of the battery and fit in between service and freight trains running with only the relief lines being in use due to a main line block being in place.
At some points the plan was to accelerate to 35mph and coast to 30mph accelerating back to 35mph etc. The maximum speed profile was 45/40mph - ironically close to what the trains would have achieved in daily service on the District line without stops.
TheLastMinute
Member
The press release included a table of estimated ranges. It stated the estimated range for a typical Greenfield branch type usage was 50 to 80 miles which would be useful for many self contained branch services.
The full press release is available here.
The full press release is available here.
Railperf
Established Member
- Joined
- 30 Oct 2017
- Messages
- 3,683
This was a three vehicle train with batteries under only the two end vehicles.
It is quite conceivable that batteries could be fitted under the middle vehicle which could extend the range. Also this train is built around what was described to me as 2nd generation batteries where the latest generation is described as being fifth generation in terms of capacity. So lots of potential for a lot of routes.
Interestingly the team say that they have not experienced any noticeable degradation of the battery capacity to date - which is still big issue / worry to EV owners.
Wyrleybart
Established Member
Oxford - Milton Keynes or Oxford - Bedford. Those routes will have 25kV at both ends when Oxford is eventually wired so maybe those @Mr 196s can be replaced by BEMUs. I bet they would get a good 20 mins 25kV charge on each Bletchley - Milton Keynes - Bletchley trip as well as a quick turnround boost in Oxford. Good for subsidised passenger trains but NBG for freight.
Railperf
Established Member
- Joined
- 30 Oct 2017
- Messages
- 3,683
Actually 200.5 miles for the record.3Q83 is back on Reading TCD so that should be 230001’s World Record in the bag at approximately 202 miles!
230001 is back out and about. There will be Driver training runs on the Greenford Branch next week.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Realtime Trains | 5Q43 1633 Reading Traincare Depot to West Ealing Emu Sidings | 12/09/2025
Real-time train running information for 5Q43 1633 departure from Reading Traincare Depot to West Ealing Emu Sidings on 12/09/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Why are they still doing driver Training, I thought they decided they weren't going to run it in passenger service?230001 is back out and about. There will be Driver training runs on the Greenford Branch next week.
Realtime Trains | 5Q43 1633 Reading Traincare Depot to West Ealing Emu Sidings | 12/09/2025
Real-time train running information for 5Q43 1633 departure from Reading Traincare Depot to West Ealing Emu Sidings on 12/09/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Railperf
Established Member
- Joined
- 30 Oct 2017
- Messages
- 3,683
Never say never!
Chris125
Established Member
Aparently GWR have applied to the DfT for the relevant derogations allowing 001 to enter service.
Explains why they're still doing driver training on it then.
The detail, for anybody that is interested: https://www.gov.uk/government/consu...at-western-railway-class-230-fast-charge-unit
Trainbike46
Established Member
Great to see that this might actually happen and isn't just wishful thinking!
norbitonflyer
Established Member
I see the consulatation periodm for the exemptions from accessibility requirements expires on 24th October, so presumably we won't see it in service until some time after that date.
The December timetable change would seem to be a logical time to make the switch.
So it definitely won't be then.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Ahhh, and you did not even say which yearThe December timetable change would seem to be a logical time to make the switch.
So it definitely won't be then.
.