GWR Class 230 Information, Movements & Discussion.

[REVUpminster]

Whatever train design GWR decide on it will have input from Northern trains, who are looking to replace their fleets, as any new train will become like the Hitachi 800 has for intercity and became a main stay of the local diesel fleets, without the diesel, throughout the North and West.

 

[vuzzeho]

Whatever train design GWR decide on it will have input from Northern trains, who are looking to replace their fleets, as any new train will become like the Hitachi 800 has for intercity and became a main stay of the local diesel fleets, without the diesel, throughout the North and West.

Well, this new train family will be replacing the GWR Turbos and 15xs, probably the Northern 15xs, possibly the SWR 158/9s, ScotRail's suburban and regional trains, maybe Chiltern's tender. Maybe even the Networkers. If it uses GWR's battery tech that's a lot of money for GWR/GBR/whoever.

 

[martin butler]

This new class though will have to be 3rd rail, overhead and battery, capable though, but the genius of it will be that it can be introduced across the entire network, a common design that with just internal fit that might differ, such as some having no first class, or is it even possible to have a one size fits all design, that again, cuts design costs,

Much of the tech already exists, we have dual voltage units in the 377/8 family, could this form the basis of the design, adapted to have batteries included, It actually might have other possibilities, such as when diversions are in place over non powered lines, a battery unit, can still power its train, and mobile recharging plants be introduced, that can be deployed at non electrified termini, in the case of diversions, so that units could recharge whist laying over,

 

[Invincible]

Well, this new train family will be replacing the GWR Turbos and 15xs, probably the Northern 15xs, possibly the SWR 158/9s, ScotRail's suburban and regional trains, maybe Chiltern's tender. Maybe even the Networkers. If it uses GWR's battery tech that's a lot of money for GWR/GBR/whoever.

We are starting to stray into speculation and off topic. It may not be just one family, but a mixture of large fleet "families" from different manufacturers, who already have submitted tenders with new designs, which include battery trains and low floors like Alstom's X’trapolis, Siemen's Desiro Verve, Hitachi's latest AT200, etc to be built in UK.

The lack of firm orders for new trains for the main TOCs, (but Lumo has placed an order) is becoming political. Hopefully the DfT (interim GBR) will place orders soon? Might be they were waiting for the fast charge report and awaiting new tenders with the fast charge technology?
From CNBC

UK Exchange newsletter: All aboard? A new crisis looms over Britain’s troubled rail system

As Britain begins renationalizing its railways, there are real fears over one of the privatization era’s most successful innovations.

www.cnbc.com

MPs representing seats that are home to rolling stock manufacturers like Alstom, Siemens and Hitachi — which support thousands of skilled manufacturing jobs — could also be expected to support open access.

Alstom and Siemens have both recently warned of a failure by ministers to sign off on a backlog of new orders, while Hitachi won a £500 million contract from Lumo to deliver 14 new trains in December last year

 

[norbitonflyer]

If I may act to quash the speculation. 230001 is very definitely going to go into passenger service this summer, on the Greenford branch.

Any update on this post, from a few weeks ago? At one time the date was quoted as being a Friday this month, and there's only one of those left..........

 

[FGW_DID]

Any update on this post, from a few weeks ago? At one time the date was quoted as being a Friday this month, and there's only one of those left..........

230001 departs Reading TCD this afternoon, to return to West Ealing LMD. I think the intention is still to have it in service in the near future.

Realtime Trains | 5Q43 1633 Reading Traincare Depot to West Ealing Emu Sidings | 23/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q43 1633 departure from Reading Traincare Depot to West Ealing Emu Sidings on 23/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[martin butler]

230001 departs Reading TCD this afternoon, to return to West Ealing LMD. I think the intention is still to have it in service in the near future.

Realtime Trains | 5Q43 1633 Reading Traincare Depot to West Ealing Emu Sidings | 23/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q43 1633 departure from Reading Traincare Depot to West Ealing Emu Sidings on 23/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

But what is the purpose behind putting 230001 into service, is it to get real time date, on how the systems work, how the recharging copes
so that it can be incorporated into any new build orders for battery / overhead units,
Or are the GWR intending to go it alone, with a fleet of 230's as a stop gap to a future new build family of battery/ overhead/ 3rd rail trains?

 

[John R]

But what is the purpose behind putting 230001 into service, is it to get real time date, on how the systems work, how the recharging copes
so that it can be incorporated into any new build orders for battery / overhead units,
Or are the GWR intending to go it alone, with a fleet of 230's as a stop gap to a future new build family of battery/ overhead/ 3rd rail trains?

Not the latter, as a perusal of recent posts by those in the know will soon make clear.

I think all the technical testing you refer to has been done, but presumably having got the unit and the infrastructure in place using it in service is both good PR and helpful in easing GWRs tight diesel unit position atm.

 

[AdamWW]

I think all the technical testing you refer to has been done, but presumably having got the unit and the infrastructure in place using it in service is both good PR and helpful in easing GWRs tight diesel unit position atm.

I also think that no amount of testing is the same as actually being in service even if in principle it shouldn't make a difference.

I don't know if the rail industry has adopted technology readiness levels as some have, but if they have then perhaps the highest rating requires service in actual passenger operation.

 

[The exile]

Admittedly virtually everything that is new and being tested here is “under the floor” (or indeed not on the train at all) but experience has showed that the great British public is capable of discovering all kinds of weaknesses and foibles that wouldn’t occur to a testing engineer in a month of nightmare Sundays!

 

[John R]

Bear in mind that nothing that is being tested is within the reach of the passengers. Eg If passengers somehow find or create a problem with the doors - well those aren’t being tested.

 

[AdamWW]

Bear in mind that nothing that is being tested is within the reach of the passengers. Eg If passengers somehow find or create a problem with the doors - well those aren’t being tested.

Nevertheless......

You don't know until you've tried it if there is some problem that might manifest in passenger operation that nobody thought of.

What makes a technology look better - to say it's been shown to be reliable in actual passenger operation, or to say that it's never actually been tested in passenger operation but nobody could think of anything that could go wrong?

 

[norbitonflyer]

25th July 2025, hoping to start passenger service at long last. Probably Fridays only to begin with (nice soft start) then gradually building up to 6 days a week (Monday to Saturday) as more drivers are passed out on it.

RTT has 165119 working the shuttle today

 

[Woods]

Regrettably, 230001 won't be going into passenger service this month after all, and probably not for a couple more months yet. My understanding is that the engineers involved have been told to sort out the passenger saloon aircon, as it doesn't work very well at the moment (a Vivarail legacy gremlin), this was really evident in recent media appearances with everybody sweating their b*llocks off (e.g. the Geoff Marshall video, filmed in the middle of the last heatwave). The good news is that a solution to the problem has been designed, fitted to the cab aircon units (that's why the unit has been tucked away at Reading depot for the past two weeks), and has turned out to be a very effective fix. They are now just waiting for the parts to arrive to mod the remaining aircon units, and then time is needed to physically do the mods (so there'll be more visits back to Reading in the coming months). GWR evidently didn't want to risk reputational damage to the battery train project with something as mundane as aircon, which is kind of understandable, just a shame about the delay.

 

[AdamWW]

Regrettably, 230001 won't be going into passenger service this month after all, and probably not for a couple more months yet. My understanding is that the engineers involved have been told to sort out the passenger saloon aircon, as it doesn't work very well at the moment (a Vivarail legacy gremlin), this was really evident in recent media appearances with everybody sweating their b*llocks off (e.g. the Geoff Marshall video, filmed in the middle of the last heatwave). The good news is that a solution to the problem has been designed, fitted to the cab aircon units (that's why the unit has been tucked away at Reading depot for the past two weeks), and has turned out to be a very effective fix. They are now just waiting for the parts to arrive to mod the remaining aircon units, and then time is needed to physically do the mods (so there'll be more visits back to Reading in the coming months). GWR evidently didn't want to risk reputational damage to the battery train project with something as mundane as aircon, which is kind of understandable, just a shame about the delay.

Thanks for the update.

Of course if it takes a few months they probably won't need the air conditioning.
I hope the heating works!

 

[Woods]

Thanks for the update.

Of course if it takes a few months they probably won't need the air conditioning.
I hope the heating works!

True!

 

[The exile]

Thanks for the update.

Of course if it takes a few months they probably won't need the air conditioning.
I hope the heating works!

Let’s not be pessimistic about our chances of a glorious autumn!

 

[Woods]

Let’s not be pessimistic about our chances of a glorious autumn!

Quite right, if recent years are anything to go by, we could still be getting heatwaves into September or October!

 

[vicbury]

Quite right, if recent years are anything to go by, we could still be getting heatwaves into September or October!

Yep, in recent years the air con in my car has kept kicking in well into October. What a lovely surprise to see GWR taking air con seriously, now if they could get around to fixing the sweatbox Turbos that would be nice.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Yep, in recent years the air con in my car has kept kicking in well into October. What a lovely surprise to see GWR taking air con seriously, now if they could get around to fixing the sweatbox Turbos that would be nice.

Maybe the 230 will be the testbed for just that!

 

[DelW]

Yep, in recent years the air con in my car has kept kicking in well into October. What a lovely surprise to see GWR taking air con seriously, now if they could get around to fixing the sweatbox Turbos that would be nice.

I did strike me as ironic that the mitigation for poorly-performing aircon on the 230 was to sub it with a 165. "Out of the frying pan, into the fire" might be all too apt if our heatwave returns.

 

[The exile]

I did strike me as ironic that the mitigation for poorly-performing aircon on the 230 was to sub it with a 165. "Out of the frying pan, into the fire" might be all too apt if our heatwave returns.

The air cooling on the 165s I’ve coincided with in the West over the last few months has been pretty darn good. It’s the 166s which are dire (ironic since they were supposed to be the more premium version!)

 

[DelW]

Regrettably, 230001 won't be going into passenger service this month after all, and probably not for a couple more months yet. My understanding is that the engineers involved have been told to sort out the passenger saloon aircon, as it doesn't work very well at the moment (a Vivarail legacy gremlin), this was really evident in recent media appearances with everybody sweating their b*llocks off (e.g. the Geoff Marshall video, filmed in the middle of the last heatwave). The good news is that a solution to the problem has been designed, fitted to the cab aircon units (that's why the unit has been tucked away at Reading depot for the past two weeks), and has turned out to be a very effective fix. They are now just waiting for the parts to arrive to mod the remaining aircon units, and then time is needed to physically do the mods (so there'll be more visits back to Reading in the coming months). GWR evidently didn't want to risk reputational damage to the battery train project with something as mundane as aircon, which is kind of understandable, just a shame about the delay.

Disappointingly, this month's Railway Magazine reports that GWR has decided not to use the 230 in passenger service at all.

An article in the "Traction & Stock" section (from a paper copy so no link) says the following:

The unit underwent a year of extensive testing between West Ealing and Greenford, but there are no plans for it or any other battery-powered 'D-Trains' to enter revenue-earning service.

Oddly, it quotes GWR as saying that D-Trains are "not suitable for mass roll-out" because "They're significantly older than the regional trains we already have in service ...", which doesn't acknowledge that rebuilt ex D-Trains are in daily use on TfW and Island Line, albeit with mixed success. Presumably a battery unit would not have TfW's troubles with pollen filters or diesel engine cooling either.

GWR are quoted as seeing their preferred option as "new electric multiple units which can also run in battery mode", which could have been developed without these trials*.

Presumably the battery 230, the MV units, and the rest of the D78s will now be scrapped.

(*Edit: it does also suggest that the fast charge system "could" be used on branch lines in the Thames Valley and West Country. )

 

[pokemonsuper9]

in developing and proving technology that likely won't ever be used.

I think the technology absolutely has potential for use, think 777s at Wrexham, Preston, Wigan or Warrington.

 

[DelW]

I think the technology absolutely has potential for use, think 777s at Wrexham, Preston, Wigan or Warrington.

Yes, apologies, I overstated the case with that comment, hence my edit deleting it and referring to possible use of the system on GWR branches. It would be good if it could be used elsewhere as you suggest.

 

[MotCO]

GWR are quoted as seeing their preferred option as "new electric multiple units which can also run in battery mode", which could have been developed without these trials*.

Was the word 'not' omitted from this sentence? I thought that GWR were pleased with the results of the trials so to say they could have developed battery operated trains without the 230s seems somewhat ridiculous.

 

[DelW]

Was the word 'not' omitted from this sentence? I thought that GWR were pleased with the results of the trials so to say they could have developed battery operated trains without the 230s seems somewhat ridiculous.

There are examples of AC + battery trains coming into use already, which didn't have any input from the trials. Whether whatever trains eventually replace the turbos will use the fast charge system or not remains to be seen, but won't be known for some time yet.

 

[sad1e]

Disappointingly, this month's Railway Magazine reports that GWR has decided not to use the 230 in passenger service at all.

An article in the "Traction & Stock" section (from a paper copy so no link) says the following:

Oddly, it quotes GWR as saying that D-Trains are "not suitable for mass roll-out" because "They're significantly older than the regional trains we already have in service ...", which doesn't acknowledge that rebuilt ex D-Trains are in daily use on TfW and Island Line, albeit with mixed success. Presumably a battery unit would not have TfW's troubles with pollen filters or diesel engine cooling either.

GWR are quoted as seeing their preferred option as "new electric multiple units which can also run in battery mode", which could have been developed without these trials*.

Presumably the battery 230, the MV units, and the rest of the D78s will now be scrapped.

Quite a sad end to the story of the 230's , I wish I could have had a chance to ride it in passenger service

 

[FenMan]

Quite a sad end to the story of the 230's , I wish I could have had a chance to ride it in passenger service

If the successful trial of the technology gets DfT and GBR off the pot to replace the Turbos etc sooner rather than later, that would be the bigger win.

 

[D365]

Quite a sad end to the story of the 230's , I wish I could have had a chance to ride it in passenger service

You do… TfW or Isle of Wight.