Should we have a universal ID card?

[ainsworth74]

may I ask why?

No you may not

To me it's an issue of ever more criminal offences for petty nonsense. If the police really feel that they need to work out who you are then let them arrest you, having met the necessary thresholds for an arrest, which then engages the various requirements and protections that come with that. Rather than having the opportunity to think "Don't like the look of that fella, lets demand his ID and see if he's got it or not". As we've seen before the police can be pretty poor at using powers like that (see the stop & search fiasco from back in the day). If the police want to work out who you are then they're going to work it out one way or another of course. For instance if they arrested me right now I've got my phone which has my name, age and address in my emergency contact info, I've got bank cards with my name on it, my driving licence with my photo, name and address on it, etc etc. But they can't demand that I prove who I am, and if I can't do it then arrest me for that failure.

To me that feels like quite an important distinction. They need to have a reasonable suspicion of an actual offence having been committed (or that one is going to be committed) right now before they start arresting or detaining people. Rather than just being able to go up to people and demand they hand over ID or face arrest.

Unless you can think of a way of compelling people to carry an ID without the threat of criminal sanction?

 

[Cloud Strife]

Absolutely there should be no mandatory requirement to carry an ID card but it's crackers we refuse to implement a national ID card scheme yet have made our lives increasingly bureaucratic and require proof of identity and status to be in the UK more and more without making it easy for people to do this. Crackers.

Exactly! It's ridiculous that I can go to the UK and have to jump through all these hoops with utility bills and so on, and I'd actually have problems because I'd show a British passport without a utility bill or otherwise. None of this bureaucracy exists here: the ID card identifies you and that's it.

Of course, underpinning this is a database that contains things like name, registered address, date of birth, spouse, etc. None of it is particularly creepy, and if I need a copy of this information for some specific reason, I can download a digitally signed certificate that will include the information that I choose to include. So, let's say that I need to show someone my registered address: I can obtain a digitally signed certificate that can be sent to the requester. The requester can easily verify the document online with two clicks, and if they look at the document, they can see that my ID number on the digitally signed document matches the ID number on the card in front of them.

So yes, you need an ID card to do things, but as you've illustrated above, you need to do pretty much the same thing in the UK, just that it's much more cumbersome and also much more invasive of one's privacy because you need to supply utility bills, bank statements, etc etc. I agree that being forced to carry it isn't good, but being able to use it to identify yourself isn't a bad thing at all. Another example: I need to apply to the social insurance institution here for sick leave benefits. I don't need to supply them with anything other than a document sent online to actually apply, as I identify myself online using a 'trusted profile' linked to my ID card.

I think having to physically carry an ID card at all times is cumbersome and I understand why people would object to it, but having ID cards in general means you can do away with a myriad of strange systems used to verify age and identity. Even things like free municipal transport here is handled by showing your ID card, there's no need for a separate pass or otherwise.

 

[GusB]

I'm rather late to the discussion but I say to those who say "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" - get a grip! We may have nothing to hide but we have everything to fear, given the amount of surveillance that we're subjected to these days.

A number tattooed on your wrist and readableby appropriate scanners would be an alternative low tech solution

While I suspect that you're trying to be funny, your post isn't quite as innocent as it may seem. "Appropriate scanners" can mis-read propely printed barcodes, so forgive me if I laugh at your suggestions that a tattooed number will be read correctly by such technology.

Exactly! It's ridiculous that I can go to the UK and have to jump through all these hoops with utility bills and so on, and I'd actually have problems because I'd show a British passport without a utility bill or otherwise. None of this bureaucracy exists here: the ID card identifies you and that's it.

Relying on utility bills is ridiculous when many people rent a room in a shared flat and the bills are split. During most of my twenties I lived in flat-shares and none of the bills were in my name; it was a major barrier if I wanted to apply for a loan or finance on a car, for example.

I have no objections to holding an official ID card. We need photographic ID for getting a job these days, so such ID should be provided free of charge. If we want everything to be "digital first", we need to provide pathways for those who don't have a passport or a driving licence to obtain ID.

 

[sor]

Don't forget that the utility bill sometimes has to be printed by the utility company, for no apparent reason. I once had this when buying a Devon and Cornwall railcard (where you need to show proof of residency).

I note that Canada's voter ID law, which is something we should look at adopting if we are going to carry on with the whole voter ID idea without an actual ID card, explicitly permits people to show a PDF copy of a bill and they don't even have to print it out.

 

[martin butler]

I would be very relaxed about having to carry an ID card, I already do, in the form of my photo driving licence, and if a policeman, or woman, stops me, and asks me who I am, its often because they are protecting a crime scene, or acting on intelligence, that someone you might have a resemblance to is wanted, or your acting in a way to make them notice you,

9 out of ten times, All you get is a friendly response, and it only takes a second, I don't have a record, so I'm not on their database, so normally it's a quick look, and I'm on my way, far better than having to be detained, put in a police car, taken to the station, your identity confirmed , then released without charge 4 hours later, Some people don't like any form of authority, I get that, but we live in a system where we do get controlled, otherwise its chaos,

Having an ID card means having a database, that you're on, but aren't you already on someone's database, online shopping, loyalty cards, your credit cards, bank cards, driving licence, NHS file, GP's file, social groups, memberships, you will be on mailing lists etc, Some of these will have more of your personal information than you realise, home shopping for example, they know everything about what you eat, what you buy, possibly how many in your household, by what you buy,

 

[BottleTheWater]

Theoretically there should be no reason why there can't be a "passport card" since everyone already has passports. Maybe make it the size of a passport page so that it is inconvenient to carry in your pocket.

Another option is for banks to issue photo ID bank cards similar to those used in Scandinavia. This would be proof that the institution can verify who you are in terms of finances (since the bank is liable for paying out money if they issues the Photo ID card), but can be of limited use for government-related services for example. The law might be able to reject bank ID cards for govenmental checks because the banks may not have access to government information, even though practically the bank ID cards are good enough to insure against identity fraud for most recipients in financial matters.

 

[AlterEgo]

9 out of ten times, All you get is a friendly response, and it only takes a second, I don't have a record, so I'm not on their database, so normally it's a quick look, and I'm on my way, far better than having to be detained, put in a police car, taken to the station, your identity confirmed , then released without charge 4 hours later

Why do you think that is a binary choice?

 

[signed]

Mandatory carry of ID is not needed, because people will make it mandatory themselves by the convenience factor. Especially if it functions as a driver's license

 

[TheSel]

Theoretically there should be no reason why there can't be a "passport card" since everyone already has passports.

Really? Then I've been a nobody since 1990.

Can I have back all the tax I've paid since then, please?

 

[Razorblades]

Would those participants on here who are keen advocates of the mandatory carrying of ID cards, be happy to go that next step, and be microchipped like some pets are?

Genuine question.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Don't forget that the utility bill sometimes has to be printed by the utility company, for no apparent reason.

Blimey, I haven't had a printed bill in years. Electric bills are online, phone bills are online, gas bills are online, water bills are online...

Maybe property tax bills? That's about the only thing that we receive in printed form these days. That comes once a year, so it could be up to 11 months out of date!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2025 ==

Would those participants on here who are keen advocates of the mandatory carrying of ID cards, be happy to go that next step, and be microchipped like some pets are?

I don't think anyone advocates for the mandatory carrying of ID cards. Owning an ID card is not the same thing.

 

[Razorblades]

I don't think anyone advocates for the mandatory carrying of ID cards.

I've encountered plenty that do, including some on this thread.

 

[Harpo]

I don't think anyone advocates for the mandatory carrying of ID cards.

I do.

 

[Razorblades]

I do.

You mandate for the carrying of ID cards, or you think some people do?

 

[66701GBRF]

You mandate for the carrying of ID cards, or you think some people do?

See below. They haven't said why it should be mandatory carry or why they are ok with making it an arrestable offence though.

Exactly. I fully support mandatory carrying of ID too. I’d be very relaxed if lack of ID were an arrestable offence.

Beyond the basic ID arguments, a UK citizen card could have many further uses. For example, free-to-visit museums could restore entry charges for non-holders, the NHS could cease to be free-to-use for non holders, etc.. I’m sure there are many other areas where taxpayer expenditure can be kept ‘in-house’.

 

[Razorblades]

See below. They haven't said why it should be mandatory carry or why they are ok with making it an arrestable offence though.

Ah, right. Sorry, but I was late to this topic and life's too short to decipher everything posted previously!

 

[martin butler]

What's the point of having ID cards if they're not compulsory, It kind of defeats the purpose of introducing them, I would think that the vast majority, who happen to be law abiding, would carry them, because they have no reason not to, and those who say they won't, What are you hiding? Did you forget to return that library book 10 years ago, and now owe 3 million in unpaid fines, did you steal an extra bottle of school milk, and your now scared that Big Brother is going to catch you, and send you to a re-education facility,

 

[Razorblades]

What's the point of having ID cards if they're not compulsory, It kind of defeats the purpose of introducing them, I would think that the vast majority, who happen to be law abiding, would carry them, because they have no reason not to, and those who say they won't, What are you hiding? Did you forget to return that library book 10 years ago, and now owe 3 million in unpaid fines, did you steal an extra bottle of school milk, and your now scared that Big Brother is going to catch you, and send you to a re-education facility,

It's none of your business what anyone might be hiding, TBH.

 

[Yew]

What's the point of having ID cards if they're not compulsory,

Assuming you mean 'compulsory to carry' here, without doing that it would vastly simplify proving identification for the standard right-to-work, renting, loan age verification, and bank account ID checks.

It does however seem that those who advocate for compulsory carrying, have not yet been able to clearly elucidate the benefits they think it will bring.

 

[Harpo]

It does however seem that those who advocate for compulsory carrying, have not yet been able to clearly elucidate the benefits they think it will bring.

In any situation where the police have issues with an individual short of an arrestable offence, they should be the means to confirm identity and maintain your liberty.

For everyone else, it gives us the assurance that scrotes involved in low level issues cannot go under the radar because of an absence of ID.

For the police, who we need to be much more productive to improve their service to us, there should be much less time wasted trying to establish identities.

 

[Cloud Strife]

In any situation where the police have issues with an individual short of an arrestable offence, they should be the means to confirm identity and maintain your liberty.

Why not just do what they have here in Poland, where the police have computers that can show your photo, address, etc? All you need to do is give them your personal number (like a national insurance number) and they can pull up everything they need. If they don't have a computer nearby, they can take your number and radio it over to get all the details they need.

I don't see the need for compulsory carrying of ID cards, but the police should have access to the information on the ID cards so that a scrote can be quickly and easily identified.

 

[BottleTheWater]

deleted

 

[Razorblades]

In any situation where the police have issues with an individual short of an arrestable offence, they should be the means to confirm identity and maintain your liberty.

No they shouldn't. If you are lawfully required to confirm your identity, there are existing ways to do this. Maintaining ones liberty assuming that one has not committed a crime should be sacrosanct.

 

[styles]

What's the point of having ID cards if they're not compulsory, It kind of defeats the purpose of introducing them, I would think that the vast majority, who happen to be law abiding, would carry them, because they have no reason not to, and those who say they won't, What are you hiding? Did you forget to return that library book 10 years ago, and now owe 3 million in unpaid fines, did you steal an extra bottle of school milk, and your now scared that Big Brother is going to catch you, and send you to a re-education facility,

This is basically why I wonder what the point of this post is, if it's not about mandatory ID.

We already have optional ID cards in the form of passports, driving licences, and PASS cards, which are obtained for as little as £15. If you just need ID to vote (in general elections, or any elections south of the border) then you can get a voter ID certificate for free. I mean maybe you could make driving licences or PASS cards free for their first issue and certain renewals (change of details, etc), but it seems like a tiny minority issue.

 

[Yew]

This is basically why I wonder what the point of this post is, if it's not about mandatory ID.

We already have optional ID cards in the form of passports, driving licences, and PASS cards, which are obtained for as little as £15. If you just need ID to vote (in general elections, or any elections south of the border) then you can get a voter ID certificate for free. I mean maybe you could make driving licences or PASS cards free for their first issue and certain renewals (change of details, etc), but it seems like a tiny minority issue.

PASS & Citizen cards unfortunately are not accepted everywhere. Passports are clumsy, expensive and fragile.

It does seem that a driving licence has become the de-facto ID card, but not everyone is eligible, be they disqualified or disallowed on health grounds.

 

[Cloud Strife]

This is basically why I wonder what the point of this post is, if it's not about mandatory ID.

Generally speaking, the idea is to remove all the silly expectations (utility bills, online codes, whatever) and replace it with a single, universally understood system that doesn't involve bureaucratic nonsense. Want a phone contract? Show your ID. Want to rent a flat? Show your ID. Want to get a job? Show your ID. And so on.

Right now, the UK has YoungScot cards, Post Office EasyIDs, CitizenCards, etc etc. Why not just have one single card that makes it absolutely clear who the person is and what their age is? How much time, effort and money is wasted on checking and copying utility bills when a visual glance at an ID card is more than enough to confirm the person's identity?

It's honestly mindblowing how complicated the UK is in comparison to Poland in this respect. It's not perfect here (the government systems are not fully joined up), but for instance, let's say I want to get a phone contract for my limited company. I go to the phone shop, I say "phone contract please", they check my ID, they check that it matches the details held in the National Court Register (the Polish version of Companies House) and that's enough for everyone. In fact, the check is quite automatic: when they put my personal number in the computer from my ID card, the check is done automatically and they can see that I'm authorised to represent the company when it comes to legal contracts. All they have to do is be sure that the person in front of them is the same person as on the ID card.

 

[ainsworth74]

It does seem that a driving licence has become the de-facto ID card, but not everyone is eligible, be they disqualified or disallowed on health grounds.

And, for various functions, even a driving licence isn't accepted by itself as sufficient proof of identity.

Generally speaking, the idea is to remove all the silly expectations (utility bills, online codes, whatever) and replace it with a single, universally understood system that doesn't involve bureaucratic nonsense. Want a phone contract? Show your ID. Want to rent a flat? Show your ID. Want to get a job? Show your ID. And so on.

Right now, the UK has YoungScot cards, Post Office EasyIDs, CitizenCards, etc etc. Why not just have one single card that makes it absolutely clear who the person is and what their age is? How much time, effort and money is wasted on checking and copying utility bills when a visual glance at an ID card is more than enough to confirm the person's identity?

I'm really struggling to see why this point seems so hard to understand for some people. I can only assume that they're in the fortunate position of either having rarely needed to verify their identity for work, to rent a property, set up bank accounts, claim welfare benefits, etc etc or have been able and willing to pay for a passport or driving licence and have the requisite other documents available.

The UK has created a system whereby people are constantly having to verify their identity to access various state and private services and to be able to gain work or rental accommodation. The UK has also steadfastly refused (and for some reason many people seem happy to go along with this for no obvious reason other than "meh, we've made it this far") alongside this increased level of need to prove who you are to make it actually easy to do. Instead we rely on an archaic system of using IDs which aren't actually intended for that function (such as passports or driving licences) and paperwork (which increasingly isn't issued on paper anymore and is easy to forge anyway). Madness.

 

[bleeder4]

I would have no problem being issued an ID card, but requiring me to carry it around with me every time I leave my home is a bit much. It should be like driving licences. If police ask to see it you can arrange to take it to the police station at an agreed date/time so they can inspect it then. When I go out for my Sunday morning walk at the weekend I very rarely carry anything at all with me, other than my keys. No phone, no cards, nothing at all. Perhaps a fiver in a pocket if it's a hot day and I get thirsty or something, but that would be it.

Similar thing with dog walkers I suppose. Are we really saying that they'll need to carry their ID card with them every time they take the dog out for a walk around the block?

 

[sor]

Generally speaking, the idea is to remove all the silly expectations (utility bills, online codes, whatever) and replace it with a single, universally understood system that doesn't involve bureaucratic nonsense. Want a phone contract? Show your ID. Want to rent a flat? Show your ID. Want to get a job? Show your ID. And so on.

Right now, the UK has YoungScot cards, Post Office EasyIDs, CitizenCards, etc etc. Why not just have one single card that makes it absolutely clear who the person is and what their age is? How much time, effort and money is wasted on checking and copying utility bills when a visual glance at an ID card is more than enough to confirm the person's identity?

I'd go further and say it could be like driving licences in that I could obtain a "share code" to give to those who need it, eg banks, landlords and employers who all have a legal requirement to check the identity of applicants. They could put it into a system, get a nice green tick with confirmation that I am a citizen (or if non-citizen, what my immigration status is and when my visa expires), and confirmation that they've fulfilled their legal requirement, ready to be printed and stored away. If the Border Force comes knocking then they can show it and that is that.

But this is Britain, where we insist on muddling through with bodgery that in reality overcomplicates things. We don't need PASS cards. We don't need completely pointless middlemen who only exist because government doesn't want to do it. We don't need to rely on documents that can be easily forged and would require Fraud Squad level skills to authenticate.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Instead we rely on an archaic system of using IDs which aren't actually intended for that function (such as passports or driving licences) and paperwork (which increasingly isn't issued on paper anymore and is easy to forge anyway). Madness.

It really is complete madness, and most of all, it's incredibly difficult to follow all the different requirements. The absolutely bonkers thing is that the UK actually accepts EU/EEA ID cards for things like voting, and looking now, if I want to register myself on the electoral roll again, all I need to do is send them proof of my last UK address. It could be a scan of a payslip (!), and when I go to vote, I can simply show my Polish ID card. This is completely bonkers, not least because there's no way that the average person working in a polling station knows what a Polish ID card looks like.

In comparison, if you've got a single national ID for the UK, then it's enough to simply require that ID to be shown when voting, especially if everyone over 18 has one anyway.

The truly bonkers thing is that I can live quite freely in the UK with just my Polish ID card and nothing else for identification. If I turn up at passport control, I can hand over my Polish ID and claim to have lost my passports, they'll let me in, and that's me in the UK with no actual evidence of being British at all. If the police stop me, I can proclaim to be Polish, and the only thing that might give the game away is a very obviously Scottish name and Scotland as a place of birth.

I would have no problem being issued an ID card, but requiring me to carry it out around with me every time I leave my home is a bit much. It should be like driving licences. If police ask to see it you can arrange to take it to the police station at an agreed date/time so they can inspect it then.

Honestly, it's enough for the police to have phones that they can use to access the information on the ID card.

Just to illustrate what digital ID cards look like here:



You can click on "dane dowodu osobistego" to get the information of your physical ID card if you need it, but the digital ID card is accepted absolutely everywhere and without complaint. If the police want to identify you, they have access to the same data, so there's no need to go to a police station or otherwise.

They could put it into a system, get a nice green tick with confirmation that I am a citizen (or if non-citizen, what my immigration status is and when my visa expires), and confirmation that they've fulfilled their legal requirement. If the Border Force comes knocking then they can show it and that is that.

It doesn't even need to be so complicated, it's enough to simply hold the ID card to an NFC reader on a phone to get all the required information. Any employer, landlord, etc should be perfectly capable of using such a system, and you can provide security by requiring the 'reader' of the ID card to scan their own ID card first, so that the access is logged by both the requester and the provider of the ID card.

There's then a paper trail for Border Force showing that the ID was checked at a certain time and by who, so Barry the Scum Landlord has no defence if he didn't scan the IDs at the time. All very simple and easy to understand for everyone, and certainly far easier than the current nonsense.