Brighton Belle On Test - 2025 onwards

[norbitonflyer]

Your quite correct, I was however referring specifically to the units with EE507 motors.

That's interesting re the VAB; I've only ever seen photos of it working on it's own or with a VEP.

My mistake. The purpose of the VAB was to provide an extra buffet unit.

 

[yorksrob]

I've always wondered about the VAB unit. Did those spare VEP carriages left over ever make their way back into frontline service ? It wasn't clear in the books I've read.

 

[Deepgreen]

In any case, as the revived unit is technically different in running gear from the original three units, I think 3101 would be the correct number to use... it's a new sub class.

Without being pedantic (oh, too late!), 3101 was a 4COR, so not a new sub-class. 3050 hasn't been used yet, unless I've overlooked a PUL/PAN-era duplication. Of course, there's nothing to forbid re-using 3101, as 4001 and 4002 were used again for the PEPs, with the 4DDs becoming 4901 and 4902 for the short period of overlap.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jan 2025 ==

I've always wondered about the VAB unit. Did those spare VEP carriages left over ever make their way back into frontline service ? It wasn't clear in the books I've read.

Yes, I believe they were reformed into VEPs again when the VAB was disbanded.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes, I believe they were reformed into VEPs again when the VAB was disbanded.

I'm glad. Would have been a dreadful waste otherwise, given they were only a few years old !

 

[Deepgreen]

My mistake. The purpose of the VAB was to provide an extra buffet unit.

Indeed - it plus a VEP would provide a temporary 12 car REP+TC+TC substitute while extra REPs were being built. Those passengers ending up on the VAB working got a somewhat short straw compared to the proper formation!

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed - it plus a VEP would provide a temporary 12 car REP+TC+TC substitute while extra REPs were being built. Those ending up on the VAB working got a somewhat short straw compared to the proper formation!

At least they'd be able to get out quicker at Waterloo !

 

[43096]

Without being pedantic (oh, too late!), 3101 was a 4COR, so not a new sub-class. 3050 hasn't been used yet, unless I've overlooked a PUL/PAN-era duplication. Of course, there's nothing to forbid re-using 3101, as 4001 and 4002 were used again for the PEPs, with the 4DDs becoming 4901 and 4902 for the short period of overlap.

3101 was re-used for a VEP when they were renumbered into a sequence consistent with being Class 423.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

3101 was re-used for a VEP when they were renumbered into a sequence consistent with being Class 423.

So were 3050 to 3053 inclusive... so really whatever they do is going to have duplicated something else?

 

[43096]

I've always wondered about the VAB unit. Did those spare VEP carriages left over ever make their way back into frontline service ? It wasn't clear in the books I've read.

Have a read of the Blood & Custard website’s piece on the VEPs (https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-4VEP.html) which is too long to quote here. All the details of the units used to form the VAB and what happened to them are there.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I've always wondered about the VAB unit. Did those spare VEP carriages left over ever make their way back into frontline service ? It wasn't clear in the books I've read.

yes, but not always in the units intended - only two VEPs were formed when the VAB was disbanded in 1975. The other cars were used to replace vehicles that had been damaged in accidents

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Feb 2025 ==

3050 hasn't been used yet, unless I've overlooked a PUL/PAN-era duplication.

The 6COR units formed from former 6PUL/PAN stock in the early 1960s to cover for late delivery of CEP stock (plus ca change) were numbered 3041-3050.

 

[yorksrob]

yes, but not always in the units intended - only two VEPs were formed when the VAB was disbanded in 1975. The other cars were used to replace vehicles that had been damaged in accidents

Ah yes, that makes sense.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Feb 2025 ==

Have a read of the Blood & Custard website’s piece on the VEPs (https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-4VEP.html) which is too long to quote here. All the details of the units used to form the VAB and what happened to them are there.

Cheers, will do. Miss those things !

 

[RGM654]

Another YouTube video taken yesterday at Chester, this one includes a number of close up views of the unit.

About 3:48 in that video there's a close up of the connections between two of the coaches. There's an awful lot of them. Presumably some are traction controls, but what are they all?
Also interesting is that each coach has a different collection of gubbins under the sole bars.

 

[paul1609]

Does each driving car have 2 motor bogies though? Tricky to see from videos and little other info is available without the main website. Some of the scrapped vehicles were from 'greyhound' units, so performance should still be reasonable with only 2 motor bogies if it was those vehicles that were the motor donors.

As I recall the Greyhound Modification was only an extra relay that held on to a series configuration for an extra 5 - 7 mph in the mid range to improve acceleration away from stops on the Portsmouth Direct. I guess that it wouldn't have much effect on a charter train and may well have been removed in the rebuild?

 

[43096]

About 3:48 in that video there's a close up of the connections between two of the coaches. There's an awful lot of them. Presumably some are traction controls, but what are they all?

It's a combination of brake pipes, power jumpers, control jumpers and train heating (ETS) connections by the looks of it.

 

[Ashley Hill]

No obvious signs of Hazard Lights,does this unit have any door locking? I imagine inward opening doors must need locks too?

 

[Chris125]

No obvious signs of Hazard Lights,does this unit have any door locking? I imagine inward opening doors must need locks too?

CDL will be fitted once testing is completed IIRC.

 

[contrex]

Rest assured, west of Dorchester and Weymouth there's a distinct lack of third rail-y thing.

I was responding to the person who suggested class 33 push/pull would let the awful thing get to places like Bath. Of course I wish the LSWR had got to Bristol and the SR had electrified all the way, but I suppose the Depression and the war got in the way.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I was responding to the person who suggested class 33 push/pull would let the awful thing get to places like Bath. Of course I wish the LSWR had got to Bristol and the SR had electrified all the way, but I suppose the Depression and the war got in the way.

Could be worse. The early 1990s, when the Pilkington Mk1 set got everywhere.. I recall my dismay when the "Bishops Triple" tour arrived in Cheltenham: 50033 + D400 + 50007 ruined by that hideous green-blue-red train.

 

[contrex]

Could be worse. The early 1990s, when the Pilkington Mk1 set got everywhere.. I recall my dismay when the "Bishops Triple" tour arrived in Cheltenham: 50033 + D400 + 50007 ruined by that hideous green-blue-red train.

A mischievous part of me would like to see the 4-SUB 4732 painted in that livery.

 

[Sun Chariot]

A mischievous part of me would like to see the 4-SUB 4732 painted in that livery.

View attachment 173843

I think we've also solved the conundrum discussed on forum thread Livery under Great British Railways.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Could be worse. The early 1990s, when the Pilkington Mk1 set got everywhere.. I recall my dismay when the "Bishops Triple" tour arrived in Cheltenham: 50033 + D400 + 50007 ruined by that hideous green-blue-red train.

Perhaps it was a mareting ploy to sell seats on the train - like the man who had lunch in the restaurant in the Eiffel Tower every day, because it was the only place in Paris where the Eifel Tower wouldn't spoil his view.

 

[TFT YouTube]

Is it ever coming to the south running under its own power or do we not know?

 

[Turbo004]

Is it ever coming to the south running under its own power or do we not know?

My understanding from an article in Today's Railways some months ago it is next going to do 3rd rail testing overnight between Hooton and Chester. After this it will run tours South of London.

 

[Deepgreen]

Is it ever coming to the south running under its own power or do we not know?

That is its whole raison d'etre.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2025 ==

yes, but not always in the units intended - only two VEPs were formed when the VAB was disbanded in 1975. The other cars were used to replace vehicles that had been damaged in accidents

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Feb 2025 ==


The 6COR units formed from former 6PUL/PAN stock in the early 1960s to cover for late delivery of CEP stock (plus ca change) were numbered 3041-3050.

Ah yes, thanks - I thought there might have been a 3050 but couldn't locate it. 3101 looks to be as good as any, then.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2025 ==

A mischievous part of me would like to see the 4-SUB 4732 painted in that livery.

View attachment 173843

That's not just mischievous, that's pure evil..

 

[Fincra5]

Is it ever coming to the south running under its own power or do we not know?

Yes, is the idea, once it been tested. Finishing touches added, and given a Fitness to Run Certification!

 

[WAO]

If you really want to fantasize about liveries....

(only a blue Pullman here, sorry)

WAO

Fictitious Liveries

 

[norbitonflyer]

Is it ever coming to the south running under its own power or do we not know?

Well, it can't get to the south under its own power (unless there's a non-authentic diesel engine or pantograph hidden in there somewhere.............) But the intention is for it to work under its own power in the south having poresumably been dragged there as it already has been betwbnee Crewe and the nearest third rail line.

Question - much of the former SR has been upgraded to higher voltages, and presmably the Belle will be expected to work on those voltages. But is the Merseyrail network still on 660V ? And if so, does that mean it will need to be tested again in the south to ensure nothing goes kerbluwey?

 

[TFT YouTube]

My understanding from an article in Today's Railways some months ago it is next going to do 3rd rail testing overnight between Hooton and Chester. After this it will run tours South of London.

That is its whole raison d'etre.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2025 ==


Ah yes, thanks - I thought there might have been a 3050 but couldn't locate it. 3101 looks to be as good as any, then.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2025 ==


That's not just mischievous, that's pure evil..

Yes, is the idea, once it been tested. Finishing touches added, and given a Fitness to Run Certification!

Well, it can't get to the south under its own power (unless there's a non-authentic diesel engine or pantograph hidden in there somewhere.............) But the intention is for it to work under its own power in the south having poresumably been dragged there as it already has been betwbnee Crewe and the nearest third rail line.

Question - much of the former SR has been upgraded to higher voltages, and presmably the Belle will be expected to work on those voltages. But is the Merseyrail network still on 660V ? And if so, does that mean it will need to be tested again in the south to ensure nothing goes kerbluwey?

Thanks for the info

 

[eastwestdivide]

Question - much of the former SR has been upgraded to higher voltages, and presmably the Belle will be expected to work on those voltages. But is the Merseyrail network still on 660V ? And if so, does that mean it will need to be tested again in the south to ensure nothing goes kerbluwey?

Expect it will need testing in the S if that voltage difference is right. But it makes sense for initial electric testing to be done in the NW, as it‘s only a stone’s throw from the workshops. If the electrical bits go bang at the first contact with the conductor rail, it’s not far back to base.

 

[WAO]

The CIG's were OK for 750V nominal which could mean anything from 590 - 900V IIRC. I think that Merseyrail is 750V, although its AC supply is 11kV not 33kV and it has end feed sections not TPH's between substations.

WAO