Northern Class 331 East:West unit swap

[Halish Railway]

333005 did two Doncaster runs this morning before being replaced with 331003 after 10am.

Realtime Trains | 2B03 0626 Leeds to Doncaster | 17/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 2B03 0626 departure from Leeds to Doncaster on 17/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 2B07 0822 Leeds to Doncaster | 17/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 2B07 0822 departure from Leeds to Doncaster on 17/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==

Could have been because of disruption at Leeds or maybe crew training.

Judging by the move from Neville Hill depot to Leeds being 40 minutes late I'd hazard a guess that it would be caused by disruption at the depot, i.e. being unable to resource a 331.

 

[Adam0984]

Leeds crew on them trains, after that the even hour departures from Leeds start involving Donny crews

 

[Halish Railway]

Can someone confirm whether 6-carriage working is still on the cards for Leeds to Ilkley and Skipton services from the December timetable change?

There are still a few services that terminate on platform 3B at Leeds from the timetable change which I don’t believe will be able to accommodate a pair of 331s.

Edit: One alteration that has been made is that the first two departures from Ilkley in the morning will no longer share a platform due to the inability of accommodating both a pair of 331s and a 333.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Can someone confirm whether 6-carriage working is still on the cards for Leeds to Ilkley and Skipton services from the December timetable change?

There are still a few services that terminate on platform 3B at Leeds from the timetable change which I don’t believe will be able to accommodate a pair of 331s.

Edit: One alteration that has been made is that the first two departures from Ilkley in the morning will no longer share a platform due to the inability of accommodating both a pair of 331s and a 333.

I can't confirm that for you officially but as far as 'boots on the ground' go, we're still being told to expect six car working from December.

 

[Northern158170]

When will the off-peak 2tph between Bradford FS and Skipton/Ilkley return? Not showing on RTT

 

[InkyScrolls]

When will the off-peak 2tph between Bradford FS and Skipton/Ilkley return? Not showing on RTT

I'm surprised at that; again, it's something we've been told to expect in December.

 

[reecestrains]

I personally wouldn't be surprised if we see more early morning 333 runs on Doncaster in preparation for December.

I'll keep an eye out though.

 

[Adam0984]

I dont know at what pace the Doncaster crew training is happening but once you have a reasonable amount trained you might find that 1 diagram goes to 333 booked traction before the official takeover

 

[reecestrains]

Some details of the December 24 Timetable Change have come through and is subject to be updated:

May Timetable Changes

Northern | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

www.northernrailway.co.uk

4 car 331's are going to be doing some Manchester Piccadilly-Hadfield services later this year. But will still be doing Liverpool-Blackpool services.

No information about the 6 car 331's on Airedale and 4 car 333's on Doncaster there yet.

 

[Thomas6187]

4 car 331's are going to be doing some Manchester Piccadilly-Hadfield services later this year.

Looks like the diagram starting with 2G00 0532 Piccadilly-Hadfield, followed by the 07:03 from Piccadilly then every 90 minutes till the 21:55 arrival back at Piccadilly. Finally does the 2246 Stoke

 

[xotGD]

Some details of the December 24 Timetable Change have come through and is subject to be updated:

May Timetable Changes

Northern | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

www.northernrailway.co.uk

4 car 331's are going to be doing some Manchester Piccadilly-Hadfield services later this year. But will still be doing Liverpool-Blackpool services.

No information about the 6 car 331's on Airedale and 4 car 333's on Doncaster there yet.

No mention of 6-car services in Airedale.

Maybe next May?

 

[oscarthecat92]

No mention of 6-car services in Airedale.

Maybe next May?

Maybe? Possibly because the haven’t done the platform extensions in time, Shipley looks a long way off and they haven’t even started Saltaire yet

 

[reecestrains]

No mention of 6-car services in Airedale.

Maybe next May?

There's been a number of delays, and they haven't even started Kirkstall Forge yet.

Are they still planning to use the 333's on Doncaster in December or is that having to be pushed to next May and continue using the 331's?

 

[GhostManDN91]

A return to 6 car services on Blackpool to Manchester Airport meaning these will be 6 car Class 323 services? I'm guessing Wigan to Liverpool will be a mix of 331s and 323s?

 

[Geeves]

331 4 cars (1) on the Glossop line, double 323s on the majority of the Blackpool work. 333s on the Doncaster I think are the main changes on the electric front. Have I missed any thing?

 

[Halish Railway]

No mention of 6-car services in Airedale.

Maybe next May?

There’s evidence that it may or may not start this December. On the one hand the first two departures form Ilkley no longer share a platform due and on the other there are still some Leeds to Ilkley and Skipton services booked to use platform 3B which isn’t long enough for a pair of 331s.

331 4 cars (1) on the Glossop line, double 323s on the majority of the Blackpool work. 333s on the Doncaster I think are the main changes on the electric front. Have I missed any thing?

333s on the Doncaster line isn’t mentioned in the link - You’d have thought that they’d make it well known that they’re increasing capacity on Leeds to Doncaster services.

 

[xotGD]

333s on the Doncaster line isn’t mentioned in the link - You’d have thought that they’d make it well known that they’re increasing capacity on Leeds to Doncaster services.

Or keeping quiet about the downgrade from 2+2 seating with tables and armrests to 3+2 seating.

 

[Halish Railway]

Or keeping quiet about the downgrade from 2+2 seating with tables and armrests to 3+2 seating.

They seem happy enough to gloat about the introduction of 323s on the much longer Blackpool North to Manchester Airport services.

 

[Geeves]

They seem happy enough to gloat about the introduction of 323s on the much longer Blackpool North to Manchester Airport services.

There's not been anything said in public other than the amount of carriages per train going back to mostly 6. The passengers will presumably find out for themselves soon enough! Blackpool is certainly a good run for a suburban EMU but no worse than the 142s and 150s that ran it before the brief interlude of 331 luxury

 

[childwallblues]

331 4 cars (1) on the Glossop line, double 323s on the majority of the Blackpool work. 333s on the Doncaster I think are the main changes on the electric front. Have I missed any thing?

Liverpool to Manchester Airport is currently 3 x 331/1 and 1 x 323. this I have been told will be all 331/1 in December.

 

[skyhigh]

No mention of 6-car services in Airedale.

Maybe next May?

Still planned to go ahead in December last I heard.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Or keeping quiet about the downgrade from 2+2 seating with tables and armrests to 3+2 seating.

A 333 isn't a downgrade from a 331.

double 323s on the majority of the Blackpool work

That is a downgrade. Air conditioned 2+2 with tables for families down to 3+2 with no air conditioning.

It doesn't say it will be 2x323 though, it just says the 323s will allow the Blackpool trains to revert to 6-cars. I'm sure it will end up being 2x323, because that's Northern for you, but it doesn't say it.

I'd say the 323s would be much better suited to the Liverpool electrics, both Liverpool-Wigan and Liverpool-Manchester Airport.

 

[InkyScrolls]

A 333 isn't a downgrade from a 331.

I completely agree! 333s have a nicer ambience and far better ride quality. More seats means fewer people standing as well.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Are they going to be able to do Saltaire? It is a wooden platform structure done on the cheap in the 1980s which surely doesn’t meet today’s safety standards?

The extensions of Slaithwaite, Deighton, Berry Brow and Mirfield in recent years were all done in the "flatpack" style construction, so I'd assume it is still permitted. There's an argument that Slaithwaite, Deighton and Mirfield were always going to be temporary with those stations due for a rebuild, but that doesn't apply to Berry Brow. Mirfield P1 is an interesting one, as that's a traditional stone platform with a lightweight framed extension. Albeit with a metal frame rather than timber.

Or keeping quiet about the downgrade from 2+2 seating with tables and armrests to 3+2 seating.

Things worked fine for decades with the 321s, and the 307s before them. The 331s are unsuitable for Doncasters due to their low capacity, especially in 3-car form.

 

[Geeves]

That is a downgrade. Air conditioned 2+2 with tables for families down to 3+2 with no air conditioning.

Oh I am 100 percent in agreement, its a long old trip on a 323 and it certainly wont be comfortable, for sheer passenger carrying capacity id say it will be a winner

Of course its just a timing load but if you look at the details on the Blackpool N Airports from say the 16th of December someone has gone to effort to change them all to 323s vs 331s that it currently shows. We will see

 

[Tetchytyke]

Of course its just a timing load but if you look at the details on the Blackpool N Airports from say the 16th of December someone has gone to effort to change them all to 323s vs 331s that it currently shows. We will see

It'd be such a Northern thing to do to put the 331s on the Crewe and Stoke stoppers or the Liverpool-Wigan stoppers and then put 323s on the Blackpools.

 

[reecestrains]

Another 333 Doncaster run this morning with 002:

Realtime Trains | 2B03 0625 Leeds to Doncaster | 27/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 2B03 0625 departure from Leeds to Doncaster on 27/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2024 ==

Seems to be happening once every few weeks at this rate.

 

[mcnw35282]

...and still only one train per hour from St Helens Junction into Liverpool.

Absolute joke.

 

[reecestrains]

...and still only one train per hour from St Helens Junction into Liverpool.

Absolute joke.

Overcrowding on some of their services?

 

[xotGD]

The West gained capacity from the unit swap. So I'm not sure we can connect it to an inadequate service from SHJ to Lime St.

If/when a few more 3-cars head to Yorkshire, then there may be grounds to complain.