Transdev Blazefield

[markymark2000]

Not just a Transdev thing - its been raised in PMs questions that 80 routes in North Yorkshire alone are under threat. Rumours are circulating that the Pateley Bridge service, which has run at a loss for some time is to be reduced to 2 buses a day; no doubt those that run through to/from the Harrogate Schools. York Council have provided funding to March next year for Connexions to contunue to run the Wetherby-York service which they otherwise were going to withdraw this month. Time someone tackled the elephant in the room; unlimited connessionary travel and imposed a distance limitation.

Or the reimbursement was much better. IT's down the low reimbursement why so many bus fares are so high. No one will sort concessionary bus travel because it will cost them a lot more money or it damage them politically. Why would anyone do that? They just wouldn't. As with most things in politics though, instead of solving the cause of the problem, they are dealing with the effect of the poor systems (lower bus fares schemes are easier to implement than funding concessionary passes properly which in turn would lead to a reduction in bus fares or if not a reduction, they wouldn't keep rising).

 

[Simon75]

In post #2780 it says:


and


There is no mention of any concrete plans to close Malton depot - merely that it's loss-making and that they'll be looking to "reduce the operational scope of both York and Malton depots". You'll have to draw your own conclusions from that.

Thank you for explaining

 

[Andyh82]

Alex Hornby has tweeted this, showing a copy of the staff newsletter explaining the various actions they are going to be taking to stem the losses caused by increased costs and reduced revenues

https://twitter.com/alextransdev/status/1599821124572831745?s=21&t=nYIGncc9RevNajt317DAjg

He’s covered over the ‘to exit’ part of the service list, but the services not listed in any of the other three sections are as follows:

Harrogate 8, 21
Wharfedale Links including Otley Dash
York 22/23 and Malton 194
Red Express
Blackburn 2
Little Hotline
Ribble Country

 

[Ant158]

The tweet claims transparency, but leaves more questions than answers for some routes. What is interesting is that in Blazefield days, the Lancashire operation did mostly focus on the core routes. There was of course more competition back then, especially in Blackburn and Hyndburn.

I wonder if the 2 (Chorley) will end up being contracted to Stagecoach in a similar way to the 280. It is interesting to see Lancs county council have added evening buses on the 22 and 2 with these being ‘marginal routes.

Ribble country is a shame as it’s much better having these routes as part of the main bus company in the area for passengers.

I also wonder how franchising in Tfgm territory will affect the x41.

 

[northern506]

Alex Hornby has tweeted this, showing a copy of the staff newsletter explaining the various actions they are going to be taking to stem the losses caused by increased costs and reduced revenues

https://twitter.com/alextransdev/status/1599821124572831745?s=21&t=nYIGncc9RevNajt317DAjg

He’s covered over the ‘to exit’ part of the service list, but the services not listed in any of the other three sections are as follows:

Harrogate 8, 21
Wharfedale Links including Otley Dash
York 22/23 and Malton 194
Red Express
Blackburn 2
Little Hotline
Ribble Country

I noticed the Flyer A2 is also missing, although not sure if this is just a mistake.

 

[RustySpoons]

The tweet claims transparency, but leaves more questions than answers for some routes. What is interesting is that in Blazefield days, the Lancashire operation did mostly focus on the core routes. There was of course more competition back then, especially in Blackburn and Hyndburn.

I wonder if the 2 (Chorley) will end up being contracted to Stagecoach in a similar way to the 280. It is interesting to see Lancs county council have added evening buses on the 22 and 2 with these being ‘marginal routes.

Ribble country is a shame as it’s much better having these routes as part of the main bus company in the area for passengers.

I also wonder how franchising in Tfgm territory will effect the x41.

Multi operator ticketing is coming to Lancashire early next year, so that should improve things if another operator takes over the services. Which in all honesty I think needs to happen. I feel Transdev have tried too hard to take over everything they can rather than focusing on their core network and leaving the less profitable routes to the smaller independents. No matter how much of a positive spin Transdev try to put on it, things aren't good at the moment and big changes and big cuts will need to be made.

I believe the Chorley service is due to go to Stagecoach.

 

[158756]

The tweet claims transparency, but leaves more questions than answers for some routes. What is interesting is that in Blazefield days, the Lancashire operation did mostly focus on the core routes. There was of course more competition back then, especially in Blackburn and Hyndburn.

I wonder if the 2 (Chorley) will end up being contracted to Stagecoach in a similar way to the 280. It is interesting to see Lancs county council have added evening buses on the 22 and 2 with these being ‘marginal routes.

Ribble country is a shame as it’s much better having these routes as part of the main bus company in the area for passengers.

I also wonder how franchising in Tfgm territory will effect the x41.

Stagecoach would be the most logical place for the 2. I think the evening services on that route are something to do with Chorley Borough Council, hence why they don't cover the full route? I suspect the evening service on the 22 is probably something to do with the new developments in the Ribble Valley.

I fully agree about Ribble Country. This comment applies to how I feel about tendered services in general, but fragmentation is never good for passengers, and especially when alternative operators have no ability to offer any useful through ticketing, make no effort to promote their services, and in these days when everything has an app have fallen behind technologically. And that's being generous about some of the companies potentially involved here.

The X41 is a sad case. I don't know how it would have done on the old route, and the Todmorden Curve and Covid have hurt the express routes, but the changes after the Rosso takeover were a mess. It's particularly had for Haslingden, which will be left without any link to Manchester now maybe for the first time since the railway was built, but in the current timetable you may as well travel via Rawtenstall anyway.

 

[M60lad]

I've also heard, although I'm not too sure how true this is, that Stagecoach have got 153 (Little Hotline) route. I'm not too sure when from, though.

 

[Andyh82]

I've also heard, although I'm not too sure how true this is, that Stagecoach have got 153 (Little Hotline) route. I'm not too sure when from, though.

I’m guessing it is a rumour considering Transdev have only just announced internally their intentions

 

[RustySpoons]

I’m guessing it is a rumour considering Transdev have only just announced internally their intentions

They've only just announced their intentions publicly, there'll have been a lot going on behind the scenes for a while now.

 

[WCONNOLLY2512]

Alex Hornby has tweeted this, showing a copy of the staff newsletter explaining the various actions they are going to be taking to stem the losses caused by increased costs and reduced revenues

https://twitter.com/alextransdev/status/1599821124572831745?s=21&t=nYIGncc9RevNajt317DAjg

He’s covered over the ‘to exit’ part of the service list, but the services not listed in any of the other three sections are as follows:

Harrogate 8, 21
Wharfedale Links including Otley Dash
York 22/23 and Malton 194
Red Express
Blackburn 2
Little Hotline
Ribble Country

Also Oldham contracts 402 and 403 are missing from the list, which they only took over from Stotts in April this year.

 

[Andyh82]

They've only just announced their intentions publicly, there'll have been a lot going on behind the scenes for a while now.

Maybe, but it also sounds like an obvious rumour I.e pick the operator next door. Presumably Stagecoach would want even bigger profit margins than Transdev do

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I've found more on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/harryhillside1/status/1598036609135349760?s=20&t=c4F4rOnwHhtIIEqDm9RXqg

That's what @RustySpoons posted on post 2780 from the union rep.

Obviously, the handing back of routes etc will bring the usual questions as to why these supported services in particular are not making money. This is a pattern becoming increasingly common in the industry though. Tender prices submitted in late 2020 were against a different economic backdrop - fuel up by 50%, wages up by 10-15% (or more when you start looking at having to pay for agency drivers). First West of England has just done much the same on work secured last year whilst Scarlet Band in the North East have shut up shop altogether.

The tweet claims transparency, but leaves more questions than answers for some routes.

Transparency to whom? Transparent with the staff?

 

[Goldfish62]

That's what @RustySpoons posted on post 2780 from the union rep.

Oops - missed that! I've deleted my post so as not to unnecessarily clutter the thread.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Oops - missed that! I've deleted my post so as not to unnecessarily clutter the thread.

No worries - been guilty of it myself before

 

[RustySpoons]

Alex Hornby has tweeted this, showing a copy of the staff newsletter explaining the various actions they are going to be taking to stem the losses caused by increased costs and reduced revenues

https://twitter.com/alextransdev/status/1599821124572831745?s=21&t=nYIGncc9RevNajt317DAjg

He’s covered over the ‘to exit’ part of the service list, but the services not listed in any of the other three sections are as follows:

Harrogate 8, 21
Wharfedale Links including Otley Dash
York 22/23 and Malton 194
Red Express
Blackburn 2
Little Hotline
Ribble Country

To exit... Pretty much as you've said!



Red Express is a strange one though considering it's not all that long ago that the MP for Ramsbottom was proclaiming that funding had been secured and it was 'here to stay', plus the commuter journeys regularly fill a decker. I still say it's the most neglected service Transdev operate. Never promoted or advertised and always shunned for the X43.

In the before times (ie, pre covid) Accrington independent PilkingtonBus drew up plans for a more direct service to Manchester from Accrington. I always thought they'd be a good operator to replace Transdev should they back out of the RedEx, though with all the changes over the past couple of years I'm not sure if it'd be too much of a risk for them.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

To exit... Pretty much as you've said!

View attachment 124916

Red Express is a strange one though considering it's not all that long ago that the MP for Ramsbottom was proclaiming that funding had been secured and it was 'here to stay', plus the commuter journeys regularly fill a decker. I still say it's the most neglected service Transdev operate. Never promoted or advertised and always shunned for the X43.

In the before times (ie, pre covid) Accrington independent PilkingtonBus drew up plans for a more direct service to Manchester from Accrington. I always thought they'd be a good operator to replace Transdev should they back out of the RedEx, though with all the changes over the past couple of years I'm not sure if it'd be too much of a risk for them.

Doubtless because the X43 is a stronger route and growth potential, so it gets the lions' share of investment.

My mate worked there well before the Hornby era (in the Lancashire Way days) and it was the same then. It's a route that gets a few decent loadings in the peak (and Covid will have undermined that) plus a few pensioners. Can't sustain a service on that.

With driver shortages, even if it's being supported, they might simply be thinking that it's not sustainable and a poor use of scant resources. Sadly a pattern being repeated across the country

 

[158756]

To exit... Pretty much as you've said!

View attachment 124916

Red Express is a strange one though considering it's not all that long ago that the MP for Ramsbottom was proclaiming that funding had been secured and it was 'here to stay', plus the commuter journeys regularly fill a decker. I still say it's the most neglected service Transdev operate. Never promoted or advertised and always shunned for the X43.

In the before times (ie, pre covid) Accrington independent PilkingtonBus drew up plans for a more direct service to Manchester from Accrington. I always thought they'd be a good operator to replace Transdev should they back out of the RedEx, though with all the changes over the past couple of years I'm not sure if it'd be too much of a risk for them.

"Funding had been secured" is the key there. It doesn't make money, and it's clear that Transdev want out of a lot of subsidised routes. It's very slow, it doesn't have the frequency advantage it used to over the train, people work and shop from home now, etc.

Transdev bet the future of the route on the Ramsbottom diversion attracting new passengers, why exactly it didn't work we don't know exactly but it's an hourly service competing against frequent Metrolink connections via Bury, there's Covid and it's lasting effects on commuting, Transdev season tickets being much less useful since they pulled their route to Bury, and what do Transdev actually get if it's a £2 maximum fare now?

The hourly frequency of the last few years would be a big turn off if I was considering using it. The X41 and X43 are inherently prone to delays from Manchester and motorway traffic, service intervals can easily get much larger than timetabled, and with only one bus per hour you could be waiting quite a while.

 

[WibbleWobble]

One thing to note is that the X41 used to be fully subsidised when it was the old X1/X2 (and when buses ran through to Whalley). It was Blazefield who decided to give it a go commercially.

 

[Leedsbusman]

To exit... Pretty much as you've said!

View attachment 124916

Red Express is a strange one though considering it's not all that long ago that the MP for Ramsbottom was proclaiming that funding had been secured and it was 'here to stay', plus the commuter journeys regularly fill a decker. I still say it's the most neglected service Transdev operate. Never promoted or advertised and always shunned for the X43.

In the before times (ie, pre covid) Accrington independent PilkingtonBus drew up plans for a more direct service to Manchester from Accrington. I always thought they'd be a good operator to replace Transdev should they back out of the RedEx, though with all the changes over the past couple of years I'm not sure if it'd be too much of a risk for them.

The X41 has funding secured and like most other such services will be subject to a tendering exercise to find an operator.
Is there any evidence of Pilkington’s plans or is it just a product of gossip?- As others have said the service was subsidised for many years and has been marginal at best - hardly ripe for competition. If they had plans it’s strange they didn’t register anything when the service was deregistered from January 2020.

 

[158756]

The X41 has funding secured and like most other such services will be subject to a tendering exercise to find an operator.
Is there any evidence of Pilkington’s plans or is it just a product of gossip?- As others have said the service was subsidised for many years and has been marginal at best - hardly ripe for competition. If they had plans it’s strange they didn’t register anything when the service was deregistered from January 2020.

I can't comment on the Pilkingtonbus rumour, but it would be quite a departure from their present operations, even to take it on as a tender. If they don't want it though, and Transdev don't want it even on new terms, anyone else is going to have to run loads of dead mileage. Do we know who funds it now? Do TfGM contribute to have it run via Ramsbottom (and if so is that affected by franchising)?

 

[RustySpoons]

Re. Pilkingtons running to Manchester, it never got past the planning stage. It was at the time there was massive discontent at the Accrington end of the service when the RedEx was diverted through Ramsbottom, so would have reintroduced a fast service into Manchester for Accrington and Haslingden. It was never intended to replace the X41.

 

[Leedsbusman]

I can't comment on the Pilkingtonbus rumour, but it would be quite a departure from their present operations, even to take it on as a tender. If they don't want it though, and Transdev don't want it even on new terms, anyone else is going to have to run loads of dead mileage. Do we know who funds it now? Do TfGM contribute to have it run via Ramsbottom (and if so is that affected by franchising)?

Has Transdev said they don’t want it?

 

[SCH117X]

In response to a comment to his tweet over the services not shown in the first three columns Alex Hornby says "We are in discussions with local authorities and potentially other operators. A way to go before decisions are made." So its perfectly possible they will lodge new tender offers at better financial return for themselves..

 

[Dallamlad]

When Transdev said the X41 had to go in 2020 the DFT provided direct funding to Lancashire County Council to keep it going after member of Boris Johnson’s team intervened. Then COVID came along and the government ended up providing funding to the whole industry anyway (and still are).

The latest subsidy is still coming from LCC but will not be long term as they are probably trying to avoid going through a long term tender process.

Also worth noting that LCC, like every other local authority, now have a local bus plan and partnership with operators as demanded by government and the X41 is part of that. According to said plan it’s a ‘super bus route’.

In terms of TFGM they won’t pay a penny because they want people to use the local bus from Rammy into Bury then the tram. They see this as a viable alternative to the X41 (it isn’t).

I use the Red Express every day and it’s brilliant. On time a majority of the time and cheap. It’s also well used despite it losing money. The fact is with high wage and fuel costs the threshold for profit is massive.

 

[johntea]

For a trip from Leeds to Harrogate on the 36 can I just combine a WY £4.50 daysaver and 'Harrogate 1' ticket? (I'll be making other bus trips around West Yorkshire and Harrogate so it'll save me a good few quid if so!)

 

[skifans]

For a trip from Leeds to Harrogate on the 36 can I just combine a WY £4.50 daysaver and 'Harrogate 1' ticket? (I'll be making other bus trips around West Yorkshire and Harrogate so it'll save me a good few quid if so!)

I don't know if its formally allowed or not - though both do overlap at Harewood so it morally feels fine to me. Its normally the reverse journey I make on the 36 but I've never had an issue scanning a Harrogate pass and just saying verbally "I've got an Mcard for travel through to Leeds" and showing my smartcard. Always just been told "thats fine" or similar. Its always a weekly or longer pass mcard and where I've already bought the Harrogate ticket (even if just on a phone) - not sure how they would feel about selling them onboard outside of the area. Can't imagine the reverse direction being much different. If you where doing Harrogate to Leeds with a day mcard day saver on an mcard and that was you're first trip that day I suppose it could cause an issue if you didn't scan it on the ticket machine as it wouldn't yet be activated for that day. But for Leeds to Harrogate shouldn't be an issue.

 

[RustySpoons]

@AlexTransdev says...

PRICE DROP - now everywhere! It’s here starting Jan 1st 2023.
All bus fares will cost no more than £2 single until the end of March. Anywhere to anywhere on all our buses - along with most other bus operators across England.
All the details this week!
@transportgovuk

Quite a bargain when you'll be able to travel from Leeds to the East Coast for only £2.

And considering local services can be pushing £3.50 just to get into town it does actually make the bus a lot more appealing to infrequent travellers.

It doesn't matter how posh the bus is, if it's expensive it'll put people off. This is what's needed to get people onto the bus. I just hope it's very well promoted, Transdev are suitably reimbursed from the DfT and there's enough drivers to actually run the services...

 

[Delenn]

There is a report in the local paper here that a petition is going to save the 840. Seems like Alex Hornby's comments have been brought about by a review at a council level because we are going unitary in April, and people are concerned they'll axe the route.

 

[Ken H]

There is a report in the local paper here that a petition is going to save the 840. Seems like Alex's comments have been brought about by a review at a council level because we are going unitary in April, and people are concerned they'll axe the route.

The district councils didnt subsidise public transport. Thats always been a county thing in N Yorks, as far as I know.