Transdev Blazefield

[M60lad]

While it was the last day for CityZap yesterday, I'm wondering whether sometime in the future it might make a come back in some form or other. The only reason why I say this is that I read a tweet from Alex Hornby himself yesterday that he feels that it might not be the last time that we hear the name #CityZap.

 

[Delenn]

a tweet from Alex himself yesterday that he feels that it might not be the last time that we hear the name #CityZap.

Yes, I thought that. Either they haven't walked away from the idea completely, or perhaps he feels there is potential to use the brand elsewhere.

 

[SCH117X]

Oddly Bustimes https://bustimes.org/operators/transdev-york/vehicles has no tracking for 2019 yesterday and 1861 since Thursday; wonder if 2019 now will transfer to Starbeck to reduce the number of non Sky Class substitutions on the X98/X99

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Nov 2022 ==

Re a new Cityzap cities served by Transdev Blazefield are Bradford, Leeds, Manchester, Preston, Ripon, Wakefield and York, and if they want to build on an existing service Ripon to Leeds via the A1(M) is given by Google as 49 minutes for a car; 18 minutes quicker than the A61. Not sure on the demand however.

 

[northernchris]

Noticed today Keighley's Shuttles have started to receive updated branding to reflect the frequency now being every 15 minutes, suggesting the temporary timetable introduced in September 2021 is now permanent.

Transdev's latest gimmick seems to be for drivers to switch their destination blinds to bus full when the bus is some way off capacity. Witnessed it in Leeds twice today, and in one example there were no passengers standing when the driver refused to allow more to board.

 

[SCH117X]

Thats nothing new - Leeds was total chaos due to the rail strike and too many taking to cars. So a glut of buses end up at the Leeds end of a route and there is a need to get some back to provide a resemblance of a service. Its not unusual in Harrogate to see a 36 arriving back from Leeds running Bus Full or Out of Service despite having passengers on board. Something that bus tracking allows them to manage compared to the days of old when all that was known was that all buses had gone to Leeds and none had come back.

 

[RustySpoons]

Transdev's latest gimmick seems to be for drivers to switch their destination blinds to bus full when the bus is some way off capacity. Witnessed it in Leeds twice today, and in one example there were no passengers standing when the driver refused to allow more to board.

I wonder if the Bus Full destinations are controlled by the ticket machines? They do keep count of how many passengers are on board, and drivers should register when passengers alight. If they don't and the ticket machine assumes the bus is at capacity it could switch the blind to Bus Full. Then again even if they forget to register departing passengers they should still stop or allow passengers to board if they aren't at capacity...

 

[northernchris]

I wonder if the Bus Full destinations are controlled by the ticket machines? They do keep count of how many passengers are on board, and drivers should register when passengers alight. If they don't and the ticket machine assumes the bus is at capacity it could switch the blind to Bus Full. Then again even if they forget to register departing passengers they should still stop or allow passengers to board if they aren't at capacity...

Good point, I had assumed drivers controlled the displays but hadn't considered it could be linked to the ticket machine. Which makes me think it could be connected to the capacity feature on the app which from experience rarely matches reality. They could really do with a bus full option on there so at least if it is at capacity you know there's no point heading out for it.

Thats nothing new - Leeds was total chaos due to the rail strike and too many taking to cars. So a glut of buses end up at the Leeds end of a route and there is a need to get some back to provide a resemblance of a service. Its not unusual in Harrogate to see a 36 arriving back from Leeds running Bus Full or Out of Service despite having passengers on board. Something that bus tracking allows them to manage compared to the days of old when all that was known was that all buses had gone to Leeds and none had come back.

Displaying out of service makes complete sense when adjusting late running buses, but a driver preventing passengers from boarding when a bus isn't at capacity is a strange way to manage the service. I do like the bus full option on the displays and hopefully it helps to reduce any complaints against drivers for not stopping, but think it could be better managed. If drivers logged the service with control once the bus hit capacity it will give controllers a better idea of what's going on - if a bus is leaving passengers behind there's a strong chance the following service will be busy, more so if there's a gap in service. It will also allow the planners to identify any services which are regularly hitting capacity to see if anything can be done to address the issue. Logging with control should only take a couple of minutes, and this will be offset by running set down only so is unlikely to cause any further delay.

 

[SSmith2009]

Good point, I had assumed drivers controlled the displays but hadn't considered it could be linked to the ticket machine. Which makes me think it could be connected to the capacity feature on the app which from experience rarely matches reality. They could really do with a bus full option on there so at least if it is at capacity you know there's no point heading out for it.

In Leicester, Arriva and First have updated their destination blinds to have a "bus full" option for every route so the driver can alter it as and when needed.

E.g for the first 18 route
18 Braunstone
18 City Centre
18 Sorry, BUS FULL

Our ticketer machines seem to have been updated during the first lockdown (March 2020) with the ability to track capacity so the driver knows how many are on board which shows on the first bus app how many available seats too.

 

[markymark2000]

Good point, I had assumed drivers controlled the displays but hadn't considered it could be linked to the ticket machine. Which makes me think it could be connected to the capacity feature on the app which from experience rarely matches reality. They could really do with a bus full option on there so at least if it is at capacity you know there's no point heading out for it.

Transdev do link their destinations to the ticket machines as that is how they show the 'this bus departs in x minutes' and stuff like that. As it is already linked to the ticket machine, there is a chance that the bus full is linked to that.

 

[northernchris]

Our ticketer machines seem to have been updated during the first lockdown (march 2020) with the ability to track capacity so the driver knows how many are on board which shows on the first bus app how many avaliable seats too

That sounds really useful, the Transdev app shows either quiet, moderate or busy but doesn't show how many seats are available.

 

[Cesarcollie]

That sounds really useful, the Transdev app shows either quiet, moderate or busy but doesn't show how many seats are available.

probably better as the ‘counting ‘ system works well for passengers boarding as long as all passes etc are recorded. It works less well for alighting, as the driver has to record every exiting passenger manually…..

 

[northernchris]

probably better as the ‘counting ‘ system works well for passengers boarding as long as all passes etc are recorded. It works less well for alighting, as the driver has to record every exiting passenger manually…..

How does the Transdev system work though if not through recording passes? And how does it know when passengers have alighted?

 

[markymark2000]

How does the Transdev system work though if not through recording passes? And how does it know when passengers have alighted?

All tickets and passes which scan on the ticket machine (so QR Code or conc passes) add 1 to the passenger occupancy. Tickets which get sold add by however many people that ticket is set up for (Adult Single would be +1, Duo tickets +2 for example).

Group tickets would need the driver to manually increase the passenger count since of course the system doesn't know how many is in a group. Any tickets which don't scan (such as Plusbus), the company may have an 'accept' area of the ticket machine so that they can claim the relevant reimbursement. When clicking these, it would +1 to the passenger occupancy. If the ticket doesn't scan and there is no manual accept button or area on the ticket machine, the driver would have to manually go into the menu on the ticket machine and add 1 to the passenger count.


For alighting, on the main screen of Ticketer, there is a multi functional button near the bottom. This will show 'Alight ([how many people onboard]), As the person steps off the bus, the driver taps this button and it -1 off the passenger count.


In short, counting on is mostly automatic, off is completely manual by the driver.

 

[northernchris]

Thanks @markymark2000 that's really helpful and explains why the app is often inaccurate.

 

[SCH117X]

News has broken via a York/Coastliner union rep on facebook that Transdev are looking to cut loses which includes handing back all tenders operated by York and withdrawing the Whitby services next year. They are looking at bidding for all, at a lesser rate, except for a doubt over the York-Ripon-Knaresborough service; that was part of a planned conversion to operation by the County Councils minibuses before so possibly that will now happen. The previous plan involved services only operating as far as a York park and ride site and passengers having to change vehicles.

 

[peterblue]

I presume if the Whitby buses get axed, there will still be buses extending to Thornton and Pickering from Malton. It's understandable during the Winter season, definitely, as it's primarily a tourist route, but I would assume there is some demand during the summer. I've been on it before, and while it certainly wasn't rammed full, it wasn't quiet either and there were a fair few travelling to Whitby.

 

[Andyh82]

I presume if the Whitby buses get axed, there will still be buses extending to Thornton and Pickering from Malton. It's understandable during the Winter season, definitely, as it's primarily a tourist route, but I would assume there is some demand during the summer. I've been on it before, and while it certainly wasn't rammed full, it wasn't quiet either and there were a fair few travelling to Whitby.

But how many were pass holders getting a 2 hour bus journey for free and Transdev no doubt receiving about 10p from NYCC for the privilege

Mod note: NYCC - North Yorkshire County Council
Jargon must be defined the first time it is used in a post.

 

[Delenn]

I presume if the Whitby buses get axed, there will still be buses extending to Thornton and Pickering from Malton.

The Pickering/Thornton ones better had continue, as some of us rely on them to get to work.

 

[Seehof]

From what I understand here is that Transdev want to cease working York’s 20,24,25 and 26 routes.
I can see York being down to a commercially viable operated First small network of routes soon.

 

[RustySpoons]

Full details... Makes for interesting reading, but the majority of it would be quite obvious to anyone with knowledge of the company and industry. Indeed, a lot of it has been discussed on this thread...

TRANSDEV
You may be aware that both myself and XX attended a business review meeting on the 14th November.
At that meeting we were informed that the company had some serious issues to tackle and as such some serious actions it intended to take, 2022’s figures were showing a significant loss.

It was reported that Malton depot was losing around £1 million per year and that York depot was losing around £500,000 per year – clearly the losses cannot continue.

The losses were identified as stemming from the bus recovery grant, which the company had enjoyed since Covid, being assumed to cease at the end of March 2023, coupled with a massive increase in the cost of Gas, Electricity and Diesel.

The Fuel Duty rebate which public service operators enjoy is also due to be reduced. Inflation is currently above 10% and also there will be an increase in the Living Wage of 6.6%. – the increase in fuel costing the company over £3 million in itself.
In real terms this equates to a £4.9 million loss to the business for 2022.

Therefore in an attempt to stem the loss the company has decided that there will be no new buses (except for the ones currently ordered and paid for) for 2022/2023, there will be a 12% commercial fare increase in April of 2023.

We were shown a chart which was listing services in 4 categories, 1 - Making Money, 2 - Good but could be improved, 3 - Losing money For Retender, 4 - for Exit.
City Sightseeing services were in category 1 and will be retained for 2023 with a full service planned as well as improvements to increase efficiency.
Coastliner was in category 2 where improvements will be made to reduce waste as well as increase efficiency, and the Whitby service is planned to be withdrawn unless a tender is offered. If a tender were to be offered on this service then the company would actively bid for it.

In York the local services, Castleline and the NY Sponsored services were in category 4, and are not making money so it is proposed in April 2023 to put these services back to the Council for retender. The company will retender for these services, but at a vastly improved rate to the one we currently have. There may also be a possibility at this stage that First York could reduce some of their services and there is a possibility that we could pick up some of their runs after tenders are issued.

Service 22/23 was earmarked in category 4 for withdrawal in April 2023 (the company may retender but it is not known at this time if that will be the case).
I asked the question - was York and Coastliner going to be merged together due to the new depot being built at Rawcliffe? – the answer was simply “nothing is off the table”- it was also said that the company will look to reduce the operational scope of both York and Malton depots and focus on strong commercial bus operation.

In light of the cost-cutting taking place the “Amazing Awards” have been cancelled for this year as it’s hard to be seen to be celebrating success whilst making cuts – and the magazine that gets delivered to our homes on a regular basis is to be withdrawn. The bonus for joining the company will also be gradually withdrawn.
Contract Engineers would also be phased out – with the company looking to recruit and retain its own employed staff.
One standard uniform across the group will be introduced next year to further cut costs.

With all these cuts - the company would still see a loss for 2022 of £250,000, not good but far better than several million.
On a positive note – I can confirm that the move to Rawcliffe is still on and we at York are still on track to be moving there in early January, a temporary workshop will be erected shortly and portable buildings will be delivered for us to work out of, a small extension to the end of January has been agreed for Hospital Fields Road and this is expected to allow the movement of equipment to the new site.

That’s all the news for now – anything new or any updates I’ll let you know as soon as I find out.
Trade Union Rep.

I can see similar issues facing other depots. Thing are quite bleak in Lancashire, with endless service cancellations the timetable is almost irrelevant and customer satisfaction is at an all time low. There are also word going round Queensgate that the Ribble County routes are going to be lost, though this is nothing has been confirmed yet.

 

[markymark2000]

But how many were pass holders getting a 2 hour bus journey for free and Transdev no doubt receiving about 10p from NYCC for the privilege

Mod note: NYCC - North Yorkshire County Council
Jargon must be defined the first time it is used in a post.

According to Govt stats (https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/concessionary-travel-statistics-year-ending-march-2021 Dataset 0832), North Yorkshire pay, on average, £1.31 per tap.

I am sure that there were some reports that Transdev wanted to remove the Whitby out of the Concessionary pass scheme using the 'tourism' exception but the council offered to stump up some extra money for passes. The issue here though is that operators and councils are doing things for ease rather than maximum reimbursement as technically, every single time the bus is 'split', the bus pass should be retapped really since it's technically a new service and as such, people travelling end to end on the 840 should tap their pass 4 times and Transdev should be paid accordingly for that. Instead, they will get paid a very low amount, If someone gets on within the City of York Council area, average reimbursement is £1.01. That's very low and that reimbursement would cover someone all the way to Whitby technically as it's a single tap.

 

[M803UYA]

But how many were pass holders getting a 2 hour bus journey for free and Transdev no doubt receiving about 10p from NYCC for the privilege

Mod note: NYCC - North Yorkshire County Council
Jargon must be defined the first time it is used in a post.

North Yorkshire are acknowledged as the lowest paying local authority when it comes to concessionary fares reimbursement. Any withdrawal of service by an operator in their area causes an issue as no other operator wants to replace the lost route. My local bus (Pontefract to Doncaster) was truncated by Arriva in October 2022 and each local authority (Metro, Travel South Yorkshire and North Yorkshire) has dealt with 'their' problem individually. North Yorkshire needed a lot of talking to by our local councillor before they reinstated a peak journey out of Selby on the 405 service.
So in this context - yes you might well have a full load on a bus, but that still won't cover the diesel, wear and tear on the vehicle, or the drivers wages or contribute to the depot's overheads.

 

[Simon75]

To clarify, no plans to shut the Malton depot?

 

[RustySpoons]

North Yorkshire are acknowledged as the lowest paying local authority when it comes to concessionary fares reimbursement. Any withdrawal of service by an operator in their area causes an issue as no other operator wants to replace the lost route. My local bus (Pontefract to Doncaster) was truncated by Arriva in October 2022 and each local authority (Metro, Travel South Yorkshire and North Yorkshire) has dealt with 'their' problem individually. North Yorkshire needed a lot of talking to by our local councillor before they reinstated a peak journey out of Selby on the 405 service.
So in this context - yes you might well have a full load on a bus, but that still won't cover the diesel, wear and tear on the vehicle, or the drivers wages or contribute to the depot's overheads.

The Harrogate to York service is a prime example of this. Nearly every journey ran with a full load but it still ran at a loss. Even Connexions had a go at running it, and despite their lower overheads still couldn't make it pay.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

To clarify, no plans to shut the Malton depot?

It said...

was York and Coastliner going to be merged together due to the new depot being built at Rawcliffe? – the answer was simply “nothing is off the table”- it was also said that the company will look to reduce the operational scope of both York and Malton depots and focus on strong commercial bus operation.

...so there you go.

I am sure that there were some reports that Transdev wanted to remove the Whitby out of the Concessionary pass scheme using the 'tourism' exception but the council offered to stump up some extra money for passes. The issue here though is that operators and councils are doing things for ease rather than maximum reimbursement as technically, every single time the bus is 'split', the bus pass should be retapped really since it's technically a new service and as such, people travelling end to end on the 840 should tap their pass 4 times and Transdev should be paid accordingly for that. Instead, they will get paid a very low amount, If someone gets on within the City of York Council area, average reimbursement is £1.01. That's very low and that reimbursement would cover someone all the way to Whitby technically as it's a single tap.

The aim was to run the service as an express from Thornton Dale to Whitby and so ENCTS passes would not be valid. North Yorkshire CC would be left with having to support a dedicated service or increase remuneration and the latter was then chosen

To be honest, NYCC has always been lukewarm about supporting local bus services. As long as they have welfare vehicles spare from schools, then they will simply put those out as partial replacements for pensioners (various places like Ripon, Malton, Richmond and Northallerton town services, various rural routes round Skipton and Sherburn etc) or invite community minibuses to take up the slack. Of course, they can spend lots of hypothecated funds for DRT that carry fresh air!


Very easy to make this about Transdev but the challenges are industry-wide - fewer passengers, increased costs, driver shortages and no clear government strategy on funding. These are challenges that really haven't been experienced since the late 1970s... and there's a recession on the way (if it hasn't got here already)

 

[158756]

Full details... Makes for interesting reading, but the majority of it would be quite obvious to anyone with knowledge of the company and industry. Indeed, a lot of it has been discussed on this thread...


I can see similar issues facing other depots. Thing are quite bleak in Lancashire, with endless service cancellations the timetable is almost irrelevant and customer satisfaction is at an all time low. There are also word going round Queensgate that the Ribble County routes are going to be lost, though this is nothing has been confirmed yet.

I've heard that the 153 (Preston-Leyland Rosso tender) is going. It sounds like tendered routes are probably losing money across the board, so Ribble Country probably will as well, which is a shame because it was a great improvement on the previous operators of those routes.

It sounds much worse than just handing back a few loss making tenders though, it sounds like there must be some serious cuts coming to commercial services everywhere, and none of Transdev's depots have a big network to begin with.

I'm not sure how much any of this is going to improve reliability on what's left though. So many services have already gone since the pandemic, not necessarily in terms of routes being withdrawn but in terms of the number of buses on the road, and still Transdev cannot find enough drivers. I suspect they'll still be the same number short of whatever the reduced requirement ends up being.

 

[GusB]

To clarify, no plans to shut the Malton depot?

In post #2780 it says:

It was reported that Malton depot was losing around £1 million per year and that York depot was losing around £500,000 per year – clearly the losses cannot continue.

and

Service 22/23 was earmarked in category 4 for withdrawal in April 2023 (the company may retender but it is not known at this time if that will be the case).
I asked the question - was York and Coastliner going to be merged together due to the new depot being built at Rawcliffe? – the answer was simply “nothing is off the table”- it was also said that the company will look to reduce the operational scope of both York and Malton depots and focus on strong commercial bus operation.

There is no mention of any concrete plans to close Malton depot - merely that it's loss-making and that they'll be looking to "reduce the operational scope of both York and Malton depots". You'll have to draw your own conclusions from that.

 

[M60lad]

With the possibility of the Ribble Valley and Little Hotline (153) routes going what will happen to the route branded Mellor Strata's that operate these routes?

 

[Megafuss]

I bet you won't see Roger French doing a write-up of how terrible Coastliner has actually been performing where it matters!

 

[SCH117X]

Not just a Transdev thing - its been raised in PMs questions that 80 routes in North Yorkshire alone are under threat. Rumours are circulating that the Pateley Bridge service, which has run at a loss for some time is to be reduced to 2 buses a day; no doubt those that run through to/from the Harrogate Schools. York Council have provided funding to March next year for Connexions to contunue to run the Wetherby-York service which they otherwise were going to withdraw this month. Time someone tackled the elephant in the room; unlimited connessionary travel and imposed a distance limitation.