Transpennine woes and a moan...

[yorkie]

It was towards Leeds. Coach 5 was platformed as far as I could see, and the announcement in Coach 6 said to move forward to the next coach. But the doors did not open in that coach.

 

[Fokx]

It was towards Leeds. Coach 5 was platformed as far as I could see, and the announcement in Coach 6 said to move forward to the next coach. But the doors did not open in that coach.

In which case the conductor was correct and the onboard screens were incorrect. I personally checked this out myself on Friday with company issued training materials as one of my trains stopped there on Saturday.

Even if the carriage is physically on the platform, it doesn’t guarantee that the doors will open (as I stated it’s due to the position of the beacon and beacon reader position which differ on the DMS and DMCL). It’s the same reason it’s 4 or 5 at Greenfield towards Leeds and 2 at Huddersfield P6 occasionally, and Mirfield P2.

 

[kels430]

Seems like they’ve given up reporting the short forms correctly on journey check now, on the 17:27 Thornaby to Manchester Airport which is meant to be 6 cars and we’re stuck with 3 cars (DEF) which confused passengers at the platform. Meanwhile the 18:27 is showing as short formed on journey check but the inbound service is 6 cars still.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Well I won't be using TPE to York when I go at the end of next month, not least because the outbound is on a Sunday and who knows what won't run or will be formed of just three coaches on that day?!

 

[Solent&Wessex]

It was towards Leeds. Coach 5 was platformed as far as I could see, and the announcement in Coach 6 said to move forward to the next coach. But the doors did not open in that coach.

In which case the conductor was correct and the onboard screens were incorrect. I personally checked this out myself on Friday with company issued training materials as one of my trains stopped there on Saturday.

Even if the carriage is physically on the platform, it doesn’t guarantee that the doors will open (as I stated it’s due to the position of the beacon and beacon reader position which differ on the DMS and DMCL). It’s the same reason it’s 4 or 5 at Greenfield towards Leeds and 2 at Huddersfield P6 occasionally, and Mirfield P2.

Brighouse towards Leeds is a 5 coach platform.

Coach 5 will open if the DMCL is leading on the rear set. If the DMS is leading coach 5 will not open. The same is true at Gatley towards Manchester and Greenfield both directions, for example.

This is due to the position of rhe CASDO beacon on the MS vehicle. On the MS the beacon is not located centrally, but located towards one end. Due to the set up of the system and the positioning of the track mounted beacons if the DMCL is leading then the beacon on the MS reads the beacon correctly and will open the doors. If the DMS is leading then the beacon on the MS does not read the track mounted beacon and therefore doesn't recognise it's on the platform fully and thus keeps the doors locked. There is no way for the Guard to override that coach on it's own.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I AM newcastle based and no newcastle based conductors are enforcing "front 3 only" at chester le street. Only the very front and very rear doors are disabled on 802s, one of which is the galley anyway and regardless which way round the train is the eheelchair bay is accomodated.

@DanNCL if you have specific dates and trains this has happened then let me know and Ill raise it with the Conductor Instructors.

 

[DanNCL]

I AM newcastle based and no newcastle based conductors are enforcing "front 3 only" at chester le street. Only the very front and very rear doors are disabled on 802s, one of which is the galley anyway and regardless which way round the train is the eheelchair bay is accomodated.

@DanNCL if you have specific dates and trains this has happened then let me know and Ill raise it with the Conductor Instructors.

Thanks for confirming this. That's exactly what I thought was the case, but wanted to enquire in case it had changed. I haven't kept a record of when it's happened previously (although it will have been on the 1543 or 1743 departures from Newcastle, and has happened within the last few weeks) but if it happens again I will make a note of the service and let you know.

 

[xotGD]

Back in loco hauled days the 17.18 Newcastle- Liverpool used to stop at Chester le Street. No issues about length of the train back then.

Has the platform been shortened?

 

[800001]

Back in loco hauled days the 17.18 Newcastle- Liverpool used to stop at Chester le Street. No issues about length of the train back then.

Has the platform been shortened?

No, just health and safety got stricter (or dafter depending on your views)

 

[Killingworth]

The last few times I've used a 6 car TPE Cleethorpes service through Sheffield it's warned that Sheffield has a short platform and to move forward. Coming after Dore and before Meadowhall where that is an issue I find it amusing. Platform 1 could probably take 2 6 car 185s, although I doubt the curent signalling would.

(That's possibly an issue if Northern run a 6 car 195 into the south end of Platform 1 at the same time.)

 

[BPN2022]

Can they not just cut to the bare bones like Avanti for a reduced timetable but reliable? Or can they not reduce any further?!

They have no hope for December at present.

 

[mike57]

Or can they not reduce any further?!

They do reduce it every day, with further random cancellations...

I actually like this idea: https://railforums.co.uk/threads/id...ester-improvements.236542/page-2#post-5844414

It gets rid of TPE North. Manchester - Scotland goes back to WCML, and Cleethorpes - Liverpool/Whereever to EMR. TPE have failed massively over the last 4+ years, maybe with 'help' from the DfT, but they have failed. As for the promised December timetable, if they try to run it I assume there will be a meltdown of May 2018 proportions, and we will be back to the same tired excuses.

 

[Watershed]

They do reduce it every day, with further random cancellations...

I actually like this idea: https://railforums.co.uk/threads/id...ester-improvements.236542/page-2#post-5844414

It gets rid of TPE North. Manchester - Scotland goes back to WCML, and Cleethorpes - Liverpool/Whereever to EMR. TPE have failed massively over the last 4+ years, maybe with 'help' from the DfT, but they have failed. As for the promised December timetable, if they try to run it I assume there will be a meltdown of May 2018 proportions, and we will be back to the same tired excuses.

How would transferring services to other operators help? You would still end up with exactly the same staff on the frontline (i.e. not enough of them).

The current level of performance is almost entirely attributable to the DfT's decisions. As long as they are involved, nothing will improve.

 

[Fokx]

The last few times I've used a 6 car TPE Cleethorpes service through Sheffield it's warned that Sheffield has a short platform and to move forward. Coming after Dore and before Meadowhall where that is an issue I find it amusing. Platform 1 could probably take 2 6 car 185s, although I doubt the curent signalling would.

It’s 1A and the through line that is the issue.
If the driver doesn’t draw forward to the correct stopping position, the very last carriage on a double 185 straddles the points from the through line, so what you end up with is an extremely large and highly dangerous gap between train and platform edge. For this reason, some conductors will travel in the very last carriage on arrival into Sheffield and others will travel in the middle due to the curve, and walk almost into the Sheffield Tap wall to get a clear view of both front and rear carriages

If avoidable, wheelchair passengers for Sheffield and catering staff should not be placed in the 6th carriage where alternate provision is available.

 

[LowLevel]

It’s 1A and the through line that is the issue.
If the driver doesn’t draw forward to the correct stopping position, the very last carriage on a double 185 straddles the points from the through line, so what you end up with is an extremely large and highly dangerous gap between train and platform edge. For this reason, some conductors will travel in the very last carriage on arrival into Sheffield and others will travel in the middle due to the curve, and walk almost into the Sheffield Tap wall to get a clear view of both front and rear carriages

If avoidable, wheelchair passengers for Sheffield and catering staff should not be placed in the 6th carriage where alternate provision is available.

You'd think TPE would have kept the dispatch contract going for Sheffield platform 1 when they went self dispatch, but no, cost cutting was the order of the day back then!

I hate working out of 1. Even with a 3/4 car train it's a pain.

 

[mike57]

You would still end up with exactly the same staff on the frontline (i.e. not enough of them).

The frontline staff on the whole try their best, yes there need to be more of them, but reading on here and with a few conversations with staff when things have gone wrong I do think TPE management have added to the woes with their short siighted decisions.

Sometimes in this situation a 'new broom' allows old issues to be buried, and perhaps a more enlightened approach to things like route knowledge to be followed.

Yes the DfT are also to blame, but at the end of the day TPE have accepted the contracts and requirements. In other industries I have known companies walk away from/refuse to bid unrealistic requirements.

TPE are who we the passengers have to deal with on a day to day basis, so thats where complaints about poor service will, quite rightly, be directed. If they feel they are being hamstrung by DfT requirements then they need to start publicising the fact and even make suggestions as to how things could be improved, or even walk away. It all feels too cosy at the moment, with no penalty for failure, TPE blame DfT, DfT blame TPE, and the passengers, i.e. customers continue to suffer

 

[LittleAH]

The frontline staff on the whole try their best, yes there need to be more of them, but reading on here and with a few conversations with staff when things have gone wrong I do think TPE management have added to the woes with their short siighted decisions.

Sometimes in this situation a 'new broom' allows old issues to be buried, and perhaps a more enlightened approach to things like route knowledge to be followed.

Yes the DfT are also to blame, but at the end of the day TPE have accepted the contracts and requirements. In other industries I have known companies walk away from/refuse to bid unrealistic requirements.

TPE are who we the passengers have to deal with on a day to day basis, so thats where complaints about poor service will, quite rightly, be directed. If they feel they are being hamstrung by DfT requirements then they need to start publicising the fact and even make suggestions as to how things could be improved, or even walk away. It all feels too cosy at the moment, with no penalty for failure, TPE blame DfT, DfT blame TPE, and the passengers, i.e. customers continue to suffer

As has been said before. You do not bite that hand that feeds. No operator will publicly say that. It’s up to stakeholders and politicians to do that, but they’re falling into the trap of blaming operators and not the DfT

 

[43074]

As has been said before. You do not bite that hand that feeds. No operator will publicly say that. It’s up to stakeholders and politicians to do that, but they’re falling into the trap of blaming operators and not the DfT

There is a precedent for that, First Great Western did that after the December 2006 timetable changes didn't go to plan because they had been specified to have too few DMUs by the Department.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Not anymore you can't. The NRC restricts what you can now publicly say - it's a standard clause in every contract.

 

[Fokx]

You'd think TPE would have kept the dispatch contract going for Sheffield platform 1 when they went self dispatch, but no, cost cutting was the order of the day back then!

I hate working out of 1. Even with a 3/4 car train it's a pain.

Personally I’m not the biggest fan of platform 1 either, especially if you come into Sheffield from the west, entering 1A to be thrown back out onto the through line and into 1B. It’s happened a few times where there hasn’t even been a train (usually the 15 past to Leeds) occupying it!

 

[_toommm_]

Personally I’m not the biggest fan of platform 1 either, especially if you come into Sheffield from the west, entering 1A to be thrown back out onto the through line and into 1B. It’s happened a few times where there hasn’t even been a train (usually the 15 past to Leeds) occupying it!

If you’re able to answer a question I’ve wondered for a while please?

When a train is to depart from 1B, which is mainly the TPE Cleethorpes, why don’t trains get routed through 1A into 1B, instead of the TL into 1B?

 

[Tomnick]

If you’re able to answer a question I’ve wondered for a while please?

When a train is to depart from 1B, which is mainly the TPE Cleethorpes, why don’t trains get routed through 1A into 1B, instead of the TL into 1B?

I'm guessing that it's how the ARS is set up for trains booked to use 1B, presumably for simplicity so that it can route automatically regardless of whether 1A is occupied or not.

I did go into 1B via 1A rather than the TL on Sunday evening (with a reversing Liverpool service) - but it appears to have actually been booked for 1A, where it wouldn't have fitted, so I guess that it'd have needed manual intervention one way or the other anyway.

 

[Killingworth]

I'm guessing that it's how the ARS is set up for trains booked to use 1B, presumably for simplicity so that it can route automatically regardless of whether 1A is occupied or not.

I did go into 1B via 1A rather than the TL on Sunday evening (with a reversing Liverpool service) - but it appears to have actually been booked for 1A, where it wouldn't have fitted, so I guess that it'd have needed manual intervention one way or the other anyway.

I've been on a Northern 6 car in 1A, doors closed and instead of going south we started back north for a couple of carriage lengths, stopped, doors reopened, shut again and we crept forward, presumably to the signal, then waited before setting off as normal.

As far as I could make out, and I'm sure someone here can answer, although Platform 1 might once have taken 16 car trains it's not set up to take 2 at 6 cars at once in opposite directions. Sheffield has plenty of platform length but not to operate more and longer trains. It badly needs remodelling to be able to make better use of what's already there Roll on electrification.

 

[trainophile]

Today’s TPE Journey Check is showing a delay on tonight’s 22:39 due to trespassers on the line!

Are they psychic!

 

[nr758123]

Are they psychic!

No, but their passengers are expected to be.

 

[VauxhallNova]

Pre-Covid, TPE seemed rather short of drivers at all locations. To what extent is this affecting the current issues?

TPE trainee drivers

Trainee driver positions at Manchester Piccadilly; York; Newcastle; Liverpool; Glasgow; Scarborough; Sheffield; Cleethorpes; Hull and Preston...

railforums.co.uk

 

[AndyHudds]

Bad start to the day from Huddersfield absolutely loads of services cancelled, since the 6.49am there's been nothing in the Leeds direction until the 7.49am, the 7 46am Redcar Central has now been cancelled too. Real awful stuff from TPE.

 

[westv]

It doesn't affect me but why, when ticket offices are closed at Brough or Hull, do I see it mentioned on Hull Train's twitter feed but don't see anything mentioned by TPE who run the stations?

 

[LittleAH]

It doesn't affect me but why, when ticket offices are closed at Brough or Hull, do I see it mentioned on Hull Train's twitter feed but don't see anything mentioned by TPE who run the stations?

That’s the fault of the social media team. Given TPEs social media also do Hull Trains.

 

[westv]

That’s the fault of the social media team. Given TPEs social media also do Hull Trains.

I didn't even see any mention on TPE website either