How did Rail Staff Travel work during nationalisation?

[Callumphillips]

If you worked for British Rail during the nationalisation period, did you get free travel across the whole network? Did you get free travel in first class? Did you get any discounts on the wider European network?

 

[Wallsendmag]

I did and I still do, there was a cut off date I think it was sometime in 96. No first class under BR that came in under GNER and only on our services. I get free travel accross Europe and beyond.

 

[Gloster]

You got second-class travel throughout the BR network and on some associated businesses: my first card was marked ‘Not valid on Caledonian Macbrayne’ as it had been separated off before I joined. There were a few exceptions: I don’t think you were allowed on Pullmans. For free tickets until around 1985 you applied to your staff office on a special form: four return tickets a year up to ten years (or above a certain level) then seven a year. For your first year you got one ticket after three months, one after six, etc. From around 1985 you had a card on which you just filled in the date: no route was required; I think each box was valid for two days. First Class was only for the higher reaches of management.

You could get tickets for travel around Europe. After one year you could have them for Ireland, both CIE and NIR, and Hungary, but you had to wait until four years for the rest. It was the national railways plus a few ‘private’ ones. If I remember correctly, but I am definitely not sure, you had four two-day boxes for each railway.

All from memory.

 

[Callumphillips]

Did drivers get to go in First Class? Just wondering because they get paid more than some managers.

 

[Falcon1200]

No ! (not officially, anyway.....) First Class Privilege travel entitlement was based on Grade, not earnings. When I started on BR in 1978 it was MS (Management Staff) 1 and above, this was later increased to MS2 and then MS3 and above.

 

[Callumphillips]

That sucks, drivers defo should.

 

[AndrewE]

You got second-class travel throughout the BR network and on some associated businesses: my first card was marked ‘Not valid on Caledonian Macbrayne’ as it had been separated off before I joined. There were a few exceptions: I don’t think you were allowed on Pullmans. For free tickets until around 1985 you applied to your staff office on a special form: four return tickets a year up to ten years (or above a certain level) then seven a year. For your first year you got one ticket after three months, one after six, etc. From around 1985 you had a card on which you just filled in the date: no route was required; I think each box was valid for two days. First Class was only for the higher reaches of management.

You could get tickets for travel around Europe. After one year you could have them for Ireland, both CIE and NIR, and Hungary, but you had to wait until four years for the rest. It was the national railways plus a few ‘private’ ones. If I remember correctly, but I am definitely not sure, you had four two-day boxes for each railway.

All from memory.

Not quite... after a month you got a blue card that allowed you to get priv tickets (UK and Ireland, luckily for us as we had a train and cycling holiday planned there anyway), then after 6 months you got your year's allocation of free tickets (4 per calendar year.) Mine came due on 25th December, so between Xmas ans New year I applied for all 4, valid 3 months, so to 31st March. After that you applied for them 1 by 1 through the year as you needed them.
People attending First Aid classes and taking the exams got an extra 1 each year, quite a valuable perk for a low-paid employee with a family - and the first aid knowledge was very worthwhile too!

My passes were also "not Cal-Mac" but still include Tyne and Wear Metro, sadly I never went on it in its BR days.
Later I learnt to book them yo-yo-ing N and S so that each return ticket legitimately gave you a second trip if you could plan your journeys off the end of the previous one. As was said not long ago, "Continental Port" was an invaluable destination for this flexibility.

There were also (and still are, apparently) "Hospital visiting" free tickets, both for journeys for treatment and to visit in-patients. I had forgotten that, and could have used them trans-pennine when going to see my late mum, rather than sometimes using boxes and others buying privs beyond the end of my regional pass. Never mind...
A

 

[Haywain]

That sucks, drivers defo should.

They get the quietest seat in the train when they’re working!

 

[GC class B1]

One difference in the nationalised railway was that status passes were valid for work purposes as well as commuting to work and leisure travel. On privatisation they were only valid for commuting and leisure travel and work travel was paid by your company unless you worked for a TOC.

For those staff in BR before the cut off date (1996 I think) their concessions were protected (safeguarded). The validity of personal travel (the geographical area it could be used for travel) didn’t change at privatisation and the qualifying grades didn’t change but each company had a limited number of passes for qualifying people so unlike in BR days getting the qualifying grade didn’t automatically mean you got the benefit of the qualifying travel but had to wait for someone with those concessions to leave or retire.

 

[Gloster]

Did drivers get to go in First Class? Just wondering because they get paid more than some managers.

Definitely not. Priv travel, like most things on the railway in those days, was very much regulated by the Salaried v. Wages divide. Drivers were definitely Wages grade, as were signalmen, guards, station and yard staff, technicians, etc.

 

[Watershed]

If you worked for British Rail during the nationalisation period, did you get free travel across the whole network? Did you get free travel in first class? Did you get any discounts on the wider European network?

In the latter days of BR the situation was as follows.

Staff travel facilities depended on your grade. Only management grade staff would be entitled to a travel pass giving them free travel all year round. The areas and class of travel included would depend on the exact management grade which you were; you could get anything from a standard pass valid in your own Region, to a first class pass valid on the entire network.

Non-management grades would be entitled to free travel for "residential" (i.e. commuting) and work related purposes, as well as a certain number of days' free travel across the entire network (known as "boxes").

All staff would also be entitled to "Priv rate" (75% off) tickets for leisure purposes, as well as FIP facilities, entitling them to 50-75% off, as well as an allocation of free coupons each year, on most European national railway operators.

These facilities would also extend to most lines etc. operated by BR at the time that the person entered employment, even if they were later split off - for example staff who joined before Wightlink was privatised in 1985 kept their facilities on the newly private operator. The only real exception was Metrolink. There was also Priv rate travel on the London Underground (with LU staff having reciprocal facilities).

The above travel facilities were protected under the Railways Act 1993, for those who were employed by BR on 31 March 1996 (now called "safeguarded").

Some aspects remain the same for non-safeguarded staff employed by the TOCs nowadays; they still get Priv discounts and FIP facilities. In lieu of regional or residential passes, staff will get passes valid on their own TOC as well as, in most cases, passes or discounted tickets for other TOCs falling under the same parent group. In fact this means that some safeguarded staff now have better facilities than they would have had under BR!

 

[StephenHunter]

What about steam crews coming back "on the cushions"?

 

[RT4038]

You got second-class travel throughout the BR network and on some associated businesses: my first card was marked ‘Not valid on Caledonian Macbrayne’ as it had been separated off before I joined. There were a few exceptions: I don’t think you were allowed on Pullmans. For free tickets until around 1985 you applied to your staff office on a special form: four return tickets a year up to ten years (or above a certain level) then seven a year. For your first year you got one ticket after three months, one after six, etc. From around 1985 you had a card on which you just filled in the date: no route was required; I think each box was valid for two days. First Class was only for the higher reaches of management.

You could get tickets for travel around Europe. After one year you could have them for Ireland, both CIE and NIR, and Hungary, but you had to wait until four years for the rest. It was the national railways plus a few ‘private’ ones. If I remember correctly, but I am definitely not sure, you had four two-day boxes for each railway.

All from memory.

Into the 1960s every Privilege ticket purchased had to be accompanied by a form stating the details of the ticket to be purchased, countersigned by your Supervisor/Manager.

 

[hexagon789]

What about steam crews coming back "on the cushions"?

On The Elizabethan, a compartment was specifically reserved for the replacement crew - presumably where necessary similar arrangements existed.

Outside that, if it was for work purposes why would they have made staff pay?

 

[StephenHunter]

On The Elizabethan, a compartment was specifically reserved for the replacement crew - presumably where necessary similar arrangements existed.

For one thing, you didn't want filthy engine crews going anywhere else.

 

[hexagon789]

For one thing, you didn't want filthy engine crews going anywhere else.

If they were the replacements they wouldn't have been that mucky! Point taken though because the on duty crew occupied the same compartment after the swapover north of York.

 

[RT4038]

What about steam crews coming back "on the cushions"?

What about them? They were travelling on duty, in uniform. I doubt there was any mistaken identity of that. Not sure whether they were actually issued a duty pass, or perhaps it was just too obvious for there to be much argument. Privilege tickets were strictly for leisure travel only.

 

[Gloster]

You didn’t pay for travelling for duty purposes of all sorts. Usually you had a pass (when I was a relief signalman I had one allowing travel in goods brake-vans) or were given a ticket for one off journeys. For travelling between your residence and your home station/workplace you would have a ticket that was basically a season: I think the first eight miles of the journey were free and the rest at reduced rate.

 

[Watershed]

Outside that, if it was for work purposes why would they have made staff pay

Nowadays it can often be easiest for rail industry companies, including TOCs, to simply instruct their staff to expense the cost of rail tickets - rather than trying to get hold of a pass to allow duty travel. I can hardly imagine such folly happening in BR days!

 

[station_road]

If you regularly travelled on work purposes, you were issued with a named Duty Pass (and mine was endorsed 'Valid in First Class if travelling with First Class pass holder' so that my boss didn't have to slum it if we went somewhere together). Otherwise there were Bearer Duty Passes for occasional use that you requested from the staff/personnel office.

 

[30907]

You could get tickets for travel around Europe. After one year you could have them for Ireland, both CIE and NIR, and Hungary, but you had to wait until four years for the rest. It was the national railways plus a few ‘private’ ones.

Two years not four, at least for salaried staff.
I remember there being a "Swiss private" coupon covering those non-SBB lines that were UIC members and part of the scheme.
National boundaries were strictly enforced - I was excessed IIRC for travelling through a corner of Bavaria on an Austrian "Korridorzug" (which back then were trains that ran "in bond" with no border controls).

If I remember correctly, but I am definitely not sure, you had four two-day boxes for each railway.

Yes.

For travelling between your residence and your home station/workplace you would have a ticket that was basically a season: I think the first eight miles of the journey were free

...slightly more for London area (mine was 11, and I was allowed Waterloo-Bromley N/S rather than Shortlands - officially it had to be to your nearest station).

 

[62484GlenLyon]

You didn’t pay for travelling for duty purposes of all sorts. Usually you had a pass (when I was a relief signalman I had one allowing travel in goods brake-vans) or were given a ticket for one off journeys. For travelling between your residence and your home station/workplace you would have a ticket that was basically a season: I think the first eight miles of the journey were free and the rest at reduced rate.

Until about 1989 the mileage allowance for residential season tickets into London was 12 miles. It then was increased to 40 miles.

 

[Watershed]

I remember there being a "Swiss private" coupon covering those non-SBB lines that were UIC members and part of the scheme.

Indeed that still exists; Switzerland has excellent coverage on FIP, with just about the only "steel wheel on steel rail" lines not covered being some trams and a handful of tourist trap lines. Even certain ferries and buses are included!

This is in stark contrast to Germany for example, where despite there being similarly well integrated public transport, the plethora of private regional concessions means that you are only assured of FIP validity if you use long-distance DB services. Rather ironic considering that the reverse situation applies on the cheap regional/local tickets that the public can buy!

...slightly more for London area (mine was 11, and I was allowed Waterloo-Bromley N/S rather than Shortlands - officially it had to be to your nearest station).

The free allowance for safeguarded staff remains 8 miles, increased to 40 miles if you live in the London & SE area. However, if you're over that free allowance, the deduction which 'accounts' for it is rather stingy.

That said, I can't imagine there are very many people left who are safeguarded, still in work, commuting, live more than 8/40 miles from work and don't have a pass that covers their travel. I suppose there might be a few hundred across the entire industry.

 

[Mag_seven]

No ! (not officially, anyway.....) First Class Privilege travel entitlement was based on Grade, not earnings. When I started on BR in 1978 it was MS (Management Staff) 1 and above, this was later increased to MS2 and then MS3 and above.

I recall there were also some special non management grades who were also entitled to first class. An old boy that I used to work with in BR days and who had first class facilities described himself as a "special clerk".

 

[Cheshire Scot]

All staff would also be entitled to "Priv rate" (75% off) tickets for leisure purposes, as well as FIP facilities, entitling them to 50-75% off, as well as an allocation of free coupons each year, on most European national railway operators.

The continental coupons were/are offered (reciprocal) on virtually all national railways in Europe (plus many of the Swiss 'Private' railways (later merged into 'Swiss Private but originally specifically for e.g. RhB, BLS, EBT etc)), my recollection is in the 1980s Europe only East Germany, Russia and I think possibly Turkey were the exceptions (Sweden subsequently withdrew), and separate regimes covered a number of countries on other continents as well as some other Swiss 'Private' (and perhaps other European) railways, which in some cases might be for Priv. rather than free travel.

Some countries include spouses and dependants, others were for staff member only (with priv. for family) and many countries only covered active staff, retired entitlement being limited to only a few countries. Port Taxes were payable on Sealink routes to/from the continent and Ireland.

The coupons came in I think sometime in the 1970s. Prior to that free travel on most European national railways was available but one applied for a free ticket for the journey which might be e.g. Calais to Rimini and return although I am not sure if the tickets issued were country by country or throughout, but in either case by the route which the applicant specified (which did not need to be the direct route). Likewise one might encounter European railway staff (and possibly family) on a free pass from Dover or similar (? or maybe Calais) to their UK destination whether that be Penzance, Thurso or somewhere in between.

 

[62484GlenLyon]

I recall there were also some special non management grades who were also entitled to first class. An old boy that I used to work with in BR days and who had first class facilities described himself as a "special clerk".

Before the CO1 to CO4 grades which (I believe) came in the late 1960s/early 1970s the special clerks were the highest non-management clerical staff. They had first class facilities. These staff were later CO4s, a grade that was only entitled to standard class facilities. The CO5 grade was a later addition in the grading structure.

 

[Gloster]

Two years not four, at least for salaried staff.

My definite recollection is that it was four years for continental passes, as I did a lot of travelling in Ireland before I got to four years’ service. This may have been one of the differences between Salaried and Wages grades.

 

[AndrewE]

My definite recollection is that it was four years for continental passes, as I did a lot of travelling in Ireland before I got to four years’ service. This may have been one of the differences between Salaried and Wages grades.

For salaried staff you got Irish (purchased) concessions like UK ones after a month, (I used them just after joining on 25th June to go on holiday to Galway at the end of July) and continental ones after 12 months - which was also miraculously just in time for my first foreign holiday.
The foreign free ticket was a wonderful thing back then, but very inflexible. You had to list all main routing points and border crossing points in both directions, and they were all typed out on the ticket.

 

[mailbyrail]

In the 1950s my father was a booking clerk on the Western region - his free travel was restricted to the Western Region only - our holidays were all spent anywhere between Cardigan Bay and Devon and Cornwall, never any of the other coastal resorts. I don't know when that changed to all regions.
I remember in the 1960s and 1970s having to apply through the staff office for freepass return tickets between two designated stations, can't remember how many though, first getting my father to apply for me as a dependent, then in my own right as an employee. I think it was two years before you could apply for international free travel, with one free ticket on each national railway but two in France. Careful planning of routes and ferry crossings were needed to maximise international trips. Even though free passes were valid on ferries, you still had to pay port taxes on top which varied greatly. Wages grades had different entitlements.
Paid for travel was straightforward, simply showing a valid blue priv identity card, valid for a year and renewed annually. I remember buying my first child priv ticket on my own aged about nine or ten and feeling really grown up. Similarly for overseas travel when buying a ticket presenting a simple FIP id card which had a valid year sticker.

 

[Rescars]

Before the CO1 to CO4 grades which (I believe) came in the late 1960s/early 1970s the special clerks were the highest non-management clerical staff. They had first class facilities. These staff were later CO4s, a grade that was only entitled to standard class facilities. The CO5 grade was a later addition in the grading structure.

Another special situation applied to some CO4s who worked for Travellers-Fare Train Catering, whose second class duty passes were stamped "Valid first class in restaurant cars only".

Does anyone remember the special £1 non-disembarkation deals on the Sealink channel ferries. Very popular for buying in duty free supplies in the weeks before Christmas!