How did Rail Staff Travel work during nationalisation?

[30907]

One little detail that comes to mind (period: 1980ish): priv rate was based on the ordinary (today's Anytime) fare, so no discounted Weekend Returns, Day Returns, etc. I believe that later changed, was that under BR?

 

[Haywain]

priv rate was based on the ordinary (today's Anytime) fare, so no discounted Weekend Returns, Day Returns, etc. I believe that later changed, was that under BR?

That only changed in September 2014.

 

[62484GlenLyon]

Does anyone remember the special £1 non-disembarkation deals on the Sealink channel ferries. Very popular for buying in duty free supplies in the weeks before Christmas!

Yes, a very enjoyable day out! And an even more enjoyable Christmas!!

 

[Rescars]

Yes, a very enjoyable day out! And an even more enjoyable Christmas!!

Happy days!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Does anyone remember the special £1 non-disembarkation deals on the Sealink channel ferries.

How did these work? Presumably you weren't allowed to get off the ferry at the French ferry port (Calais or wherever) and so had to come straight back across the Channel, but you could still avail yourself of onboard 'duty free' purchasing opportunities?

 

[62484GlenLyon]

How did these work? Presumably you weren't allowed to get off the ferry at the French ferry port (Calais or wherever) and so had to come straight back across the Channel, but you could still avail yourself of onboard 'duty free' purchasing opportunities?

Exactly that. You stayed aboard the ferry while it was "over the other side" enjoying watching other vessels come and go in the harbour, or whatever, and then put your snout in the duty-free shop on the way back.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Into the 1960s every Privilege ticket purchased had to be accompanied by a form stating the details of the ticket to be purchased, countersigned by your Supervisor/Manager.

I was very fortunate that my Dad joined the railway just as I went to university (1961), so I had 3 years of privilege tickets as a dependent.
In fact I used the facility far more than my parents did.
In the first year it was as you say, had to be requested in advance and signed by a manager.
There was then a short period of pre-approved blank forms which made things more flexible, as you could keep a stock and fill them in yourself on the day.
Within the year (must have been 1962/3) they issued identity cards to show at ticket windows, just like today's railcards, and the forms vanished.
I travelled widely by rail across GB as a result, in those 3 years.
It was quite hard to get out of the habit of going places for a pittance when I got a (non-railway) job!

 

[Gloster]

I never did a non-landing excursion, but from memory of the announcements on the ferry, they used to corral all the non-landers in one restaurant while the gangway was open. I have a recollection of one occasion where there was a longer than usual delay before disembarking and then we had to show our tickets. Did they do a head count?

 

[Merle Haggard]

Within the year (must have been 1962/3) they issued identity cards to show at ticket windows, just like today's railcards, and the forms vanished.

The identity cards did not have photos. on until ??? ca1970/71. Bit of a loop-hole...

 

[Cheshire Scot]

The identity cards did not have photos. on until ??? ca1970/71. Bit of a loop-hole...

Late 1970s I think.

 

[Gloster]

Late 1970s I think.

I joined in mid-1978 and I remember it being commented about them being new then. (Wish I still had all that hair.)

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I joined in mid-1978 and I remember it being commented about them being new then. (Wish I still had all that hair.)

Yes, I joined in '77 without photo ID but recall it came along before I changed location in '79. My hair is much much now shorter than in that photo!

 

[Clarence Yard]

1978, iirc. We (at KX) had to go down to the Photo-Me booth in front of the clock tower and get our pictures for the ID card and then claim the money back on expenses.

 

[Merle Haggard]

1978, iirc. We (at KX) had to go down to the Photo-Me booth in front of the clock tower and get our pictures for the ID card and then claim the money back on expenses.

An oddity was that there was no requirement or, I think, method to update the photo.

It's introduction co-incided with the fashion for flower pattern shirts, lace ties and tinted glasses. Much later, a conductor guard looked at my i.d. photo, turned away quickly but couldn't conceal a chuckle. Reason to update- I claimed I'd mislaid it...

 

[Dr Hoo]

An oddity was that there was no requirement or, I think, method to update the photo.

It's introduction co-incided with the fashion for flower pattern shirts, lace ties and tinted glasses. Much later, a conductor guard looked at my i.d. photo, turned away quickly but couldn't conceal a chuckle. Reason to update- I claimed I'd mislaid it...

I got ‘T-I’d’ (Travel Irregularity) by a particularly officious inspector after shaving my beard off and no longer being ‘recognisable’. Had to get a new card (and then yet another when I grew it back again).

 

[Route115?]

One little detail that comes to mind (period: 1980ish): priv rate was based on the ordinary (today's Anytime) fare, so no discounted Weekend Returns, Day Returns, etc. I believe that later changed, was that under BR?

When I first joined the railway (in 1981) I had to wait for my Priv card but my student railcard was still valid. I therefore had to pay I think £1.50 for a half price CDR Victoria to Gatwick rather than £1.30 for a Priv.

 

[Watershed]

When I first joined the railway (in 1981) I had to wait for my Priv card but my student railcard was still valid. I therefore had to pay I think £1.50 for a half price CDR Victoria to Gatwick rather than £1.30 for a Priv.

Strange to think that this journey can be done for just 60p more, 41 years later - meaning it's more than 3× cheaper in inflation adjusted terms. Albeit this requires the use of an Oyster card and "splitting" at East Croydon.

 

[Route115?]

You got second-class travel throughout the BR network and on some associated businesses: my first card was marked ‘Not valid on Caledonian Macbrayne’ as it had been separated off before I joined. There were a few exceptions: I don’t think you were allowed on Pullmans. For free tickets until around 1985 you applied to your staff office on a special form: four return tickets a year up to ten years (or above a certain level) then seven a year. For your first year you got one ticket after three months, one after six, etc. From around 1985 you had a card on which you just filled in the date: no route was required; I think each box was valid for two days. First Class was only for the higher reaches of management.

You could get tickets for travel around Europe. After one year you could have them for Ireland, both CIE and NIR, and Hungary, but you had to wait until four years for the rest. It was the national railways plus a few ‘private’ ones. If I remember correctly, but I am definitely not sure, you had four two-day boxes for each railway.

All from memory.

Each box was indeed valid for two days. Most staff got ten boxes, a much better deal than the four free tickets, some got extra boxes for long service, being a qualified first aider ,etc.

When I joined (1981) 1st Class started at MS1 (probably in compensation with loss of overtime, etc). You got a Regional Status ('Leatyer') pass (you could choose the region at a certain salary level so it could happen at MS2 but I had to wait until I was MS3. You got an all station pass at MS4. Staff in London got a tube pass at MS5 and (not that I ever got there) one's family got leisure only free travel on reaching Executive Grade 1. Very senior staff got a Medallion.

Later the threshold for 1st Class was raised to MS4 although I think that existing holders could keep it. This became Blue Passes (one region only Standard Class) and Solver & Gold Passes (all stations 1st Class) although with a few fewer exceptions for the latter.

You could keep a status pass on retirement if you had served a certain number of year, I believe 20 if under 45 & 5 if over 45 (I stand tio be corrected). I was made redundant with just under 18 years service. Luckily I was rehired after a while got a Silver Pass & kept it when I retired at 50. You also had to draw a pension but fotunately I was able to draw a very small pension until I reached 60.

There are stories of people at BRB made redundant a few weeks before being eligable for retirement travel. Hopefully many found another job on the railway although you were not allowed to work anywhere outside the railway in the meantime in which case you lost everything. I was redundant for almost a year but luckily I was finishing off a part time degree (which became less part time) and had enough cash to be able to avoid this.

You only keep annual coupons for international travel on a few railways on retirement (Benelux, Italy & Portugal come to mind). I think that I got a one free coupon within nine months a second within 45 months on each administration after retirement. After that its Interrail passes.

 

[6Gman]

I got ‘T-I’d’ (Travel Irregularity) by a particularly officious inspector after shaving my beard off and no longer being ‘recognisable’. Had to get a new card (and then yet another when I grew it back again).

A Guard on the West Highland actually tugged at my beard to see if he could remove it to check my appearance.

It didn't come off!

 

[Darandio]

An oddity was that there was no requirement or, I think, method to update the photo.

Pretty sure there wasn't. I've got my dads card here and it was issued at the back end of the 1970's, still used the same one until he died earlier this year.

 

[6Gman]

Pretty sure there wasn't. I've got my dads card here and it was issued at the back end of the 1970's, still used the same one until he died earlier this year.

Retired staff are not required to have photo id - I presume active staff can be required to update periodically.

 

[Starmill]

Strange to think that this journey can be done for just 60p more, 41 years later - meaning it's more than 3× cheaper in inflation adjusted terms. Albeit this requires the use of an Oyster card and "splitting" at East Croydon.

It is very odd. But then there are some modern journeys like that too where real prices have gone down. For example at NFM 01 in 2008, Alnmouth to Newcastle Cheap Day Return was £11. Today it is £12.60. Although of course it was abolished and then reinstated in the interim, which explains that one.

 

[62484GlenLyon]

Retired staff are not required to have photo id - I presume active staff can be required to update periodically.

Due to redundancy I went into retired staff category in 1994, aged 42. In the first 15 years or so I expected to be challenged frequently about not having photo ID but it only happened twice - once at Kings Cross LUL and once at my local station. Nowadays it is obvious that I am retired!!

 

[Trainfan2019]

What about royal mail trains? Travelling post office trains and then later on, the class 325s. Obviously driven by qualified rail staff but were they classed the same as all other freight?

 

[Watershed]

What about royal mail trains? Travelling post office trains and then later on, the class 325s. Obviously driven by qualified rail staff but were they classed the same as all other freight?

The railway side of things were taken over by EWS (DB) initially - now it's done by GBRf. If I'm not mistaken, Royal Mail continued to employ the mail sorters for as long as that lasted. The only people working on those trains who would have been entitled to Staff Travel facilities would have been the drivers etc., if they were employed in the industry on 31 March 1996.

 

[Gloster]

The TPOs were just treated like other Class 1 trains operated by BR. (*). The driver and guard were normal BR employees, while all the sorters were Royal Mail ones and did not have any BR travel facilities: the only travel they got off the train was when a working was unbalanced and they had to travel back home after working on the train. The arrangements for this would have been part of the contract between BR and Royal Mail for operating the trains. A similar situation applied to newspaper sorters, who had to get from their base to where the newspaper train started its run: their job was in one direction only.

* - Recollection is there was an exception when operating Royal Mail trains that had no passenger accommodation. It was permitted to divert these trains via goods loop or lines without clipping facing points, even though they were Class 1s.

 

[6Gman]

What about royal mail trains? Travelling post office trains and then later on, the class 325s. Obviously driven by qualified rail staff but were they classed the same as all other freight?

As has been pointed out already the traincrew were BR staff, who would work in exactly the same way as other staff. Indeed, their job might well be TPO in one direction, passenger or freight in the other.

And they were not freight!

 

[mailbyrail]

What about royal mail trains? Travelling post office trains and then later on, the class 325s. Obviously driven by qualified rail staff but were they classed the same as all other freight?

But the GPO sorters inside the TPO had travel passes to authorise them to work on the TPO - the example I have from the 1980s is laminated plastic, approximately credit card sized.

 

[Trainfan2019]

Fascinating answers to my query, thanks.

I just wondered if the royal mail services were treated any differently with there being both BR staff and royal mail staff onboard.

Makes sense really that only the BR staff onboard had same travel facilities as if on any other train though.

Interesting to read about the GPO sorters needing passes to work onboard, never thought about that one!

 

[mailbyrail]

Rules & Regulations for officers of the Travelling Post Offices issued by the GPPO in 1927 include the following

Rule 5 states: Travelling in Post Office Carriages is permitted only to those whose duty as Post Office Officials takes them there, and to those who are in possession of authority given by the Chief superintendent of travelling Post Offices, the Postmaster controlling the Mail, the Controller LPS or the Secretary.
Rule 6 states: Every Travelling Officer is supplied with a card or free ticket warranting his presence in a Mail Carriage, and when on duty he should alwayds carry that card or ticket. Officers supplied with a warrant card should sign it on the back. The card or ticket should be produced if a Paying Officer or Railway Official desires to see it.

The 1955 rules are similar although a subsequent amendment to the later rules also changed rule 5 to begin Travelling in Post Office vehicles and visiting them while standing in railway stations...