82xxx DVT how do they move?

[hexagon789]

I think that one of the Southern’s constituents used wires running along the roof. Even though the driver was at the other end of the train, there was still the fireman on the footplate.

That was the same on the GWR, the fireman always remained with the loco - certain functions weren't controllable from the autotrailer cabs anyway such as altering the "cut-off". There were bell codes for sending messages to the fireman.

 

[Irascible]

RCH jumpers, which are used for controlling the lighting etc.

Though in early WCML days there were issues with signal degradation, so the Mark 2F and 3 stock used on the WCML was fitted with screened cables for the push-pull working.

Lights, right - something already installed. Nominally, anyway.

That was the same on the GWR, the fireman always remained with the loco - certain functions weren't controllable from the autotrailer cabs anyway such as altering the "cut-off". There were bell codes for sending messages to the fireman.

And the obvious one of someone having to fire it! firemen could probably manage the cutoff ok if they'd been doing the job a while ( they can see the regulator position anyway ). That brings up another curiosity - if any of these mechanical linkages got in the way of the fireman. Don't think I've ever seen a cab with the regulator connected up.

The electrically controlled version intrigues me, will have to dig into that.

 

[hexagon789]

And the obvious one of someone having to fire it!

A good point but I was really thinking specifically about the driving control situation.

firemen could probably manage the cutoff ok if they'd been doing the job a while ( they can see the regulator position anyway ).

I understand they did and something in the back of my mind says that firemen on the autotrains were of a specific grade additionally trained to handle the unique aspects of autotrain work. Or perhaps that's something someone said somewhere about a preserved railway that operates them, that they have specifically trained firemen to handle the additional duties - I can't quite remember.

The electrically controlled version intrigues me, will have to dig into that.

An electrically-controlled steam push-pull? That intrigues me too! Who ran that?

 

[Irascible]

I understand they did and something in the back of my mind says that firemen on the autotrains were of a specific grade additionally trained to handle the unique aspects of autotrain work. Or perhaps that's something someone said somewhere about a preserved railway that operates them, that they have specifically trained firemen to handle the additional duties - I can't quite remember.

Might be an interesting career path to driver - I wonder if they made driver any quicker going that way. Maybe it was a passed fireman job?

An electrically-controlled steam push-pull? That intrigues me too! Who ran that?

Gloster mentioned it on the previous page, one of the companies that ended up in SR. No idea which yet!

 

[4F89]

Except the Chiltern Mk3s and ATW Mk4s, which have been modified to use the American AAR system which the Class 67s (and 59s, 66s and some 68s) are fitted with.

But the 68's and mk5's don't claim to be a dvt

 

[43096]

But the 68's and mk5's don't claim to be a dvt

No-one has said they are. In fact until you mentioned them, Mark 5s have been absent from this thread, so I have no idea what your point is.

 

[Tynwald]

Mk5 is a DT. Still gets pulled and pushed in the same way !

 

[hexagon789]

Might be an interesting career path to driver - I wonder if they made driver any quicker going that way. Maybe it was a passed fireman job?

I had a wee read up and all I could find was that on the GWR a "passed" fireman was preferred for autotrain work, but not essential. The SVR however does seem to have a specific grade of fireman for their autotrain due to the nature of the brake operation. (Possibly modern standards require the extra training for safety reasons?)

Gloster mentioned it on the previous page, one of the companies that ended up in SR. No idea which yet!

I actually remember reading that post now, but didn't interpret it as being for the push-pull control. The LBSCR had "motortrains" which used air-control for the regulator but also had electric wiring for the bell signals to the fireman, could it be that?

 

[Gloster]

Might be an interesting career path to driver - I wonder if they made driver any quicker going that way. Maybe it was a passed fireman job?



Gloster mentioned it on the previous page, one of the companies that ended up in SR. No idea which yet!

No. My recollection is of reading about a system where the motion of the controls was physically carried through wires from the driver’s position in the trailer to the loco. One problem was that it required very careful adjustment each time the loco was changed. (I read about it a while ago and hope I haven’t got completely confused.)

 

[hexagon789]

No. My recollection is of reading about a system where the motion of the controls was physically carried through wires from the driver’s position in the trailer to the loco. One problem was that it required very careful adjustment each time the loco was changed. (I read about it a while ago and hope I haven’t got completely confused.)

But still a mechanical system? I.e. similar to the GWR mechanical linkage but using (presumably) a wire-pull system?

 

[Wyrleybart]

I'm anti 'form over function' but damn the externals on that rear cab look horrible.

But it was only intended to be a cheap and temporary testbed for the hydroflex equipment using a redundant van with a cab at one end.

 

[Gloster]

But still a mechanical system? I.e. similar to the GWR mechanical linkage but using (presumably) a wire-pull system?

Yes, mechanical, not electrical.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Modern traction? Steam engines could (and did/still do) run in either direction!

The important words were "as easily". Steam locos were not permitted to run "tender first" at speed - that's why turntables were provided

 

[hexagon789]

The important words were "as easily". Steam locos were not permitted to run "tender first" at speed - that's why turntables were provided

Most are 45mph tender first on the mainline, stencilled inside the cab

 

[47827]

Most are 45mph tender first on the mainline, stencilled inside the cab

Yes, still the case. Tender first operation does happen still but usually for short distances and for operational necessity. In recent years one of the farthest such examples is Chester area (after a spin on the triangle) to Llandudno Junction on the annual RTC Preston to Ffestiniog steam excursion. Its merit is in the fact that the run south via the Conway Valley is more difficult in terms of tightly curved steep grades. The loco is then tender first ready for the return north, runs round at Llandudno Junction and is the correct way around all the way back as a result.

About as far away from talking about how a DVT functions as you can get surely?

 

[hexagon789]

About as far away from talking about how a DVT functions as you can get surely?

Except when the P-P system fails, then its much closer

 

[D6968]

Yes, still the case. Tender first operation does happen still but usually for short distances and for operational necessity. In recent years one of the farthest such examples is Chester area (after a spin on the triangle) to Llandudno Junction on the annual RTC Preston to Ffestiniog steam excursion. Its merit is in the fact that the run south via the Conway Valley is more difficult in terms of tightly curved steep grades. The loco is then tender first ready for the return north, runs round at Llandudno Junction and is the correct way around all the way back as a result.

About as far away from talking about how a DVT functions as you can get surely?

Can the triangle at Valley not be used?

 

[47827]

Can the triangle at Valley not be used?

You simply haven't got time on the Ffestiniog steam trip. It's early off Preston, 3 hours at BF, and late back. No give in it at all from that perspective. The Valley triangle is only any good for the Holyhead trips really although on rare occasions stuff taking 4 or 5 hours at Llandudno Town has been steam hauled with the loco turning at Valley and returning with an hour or so to spare. These days with no working run round facility at Llandudno Town in the station itself you'd often have train diesel hauled back as far as Chester triangle instead to turn the steam loco that worked it West.

 

[D6968]

You simply haven't got time on the Ffestiniog steam trip. It's early off Preston, 3 hours at BF, and late back. No give in it at all from that perspective. The Valley triangle is only any good for the Holyhead trips really although on rare occasions stuff taking 4 or 5 hours at Llandudno Town has been steam hauled with the loco turning at Valley and returning with an hour or so to spare. These days with no working run round facility at Llandudno Town in the station itself you'd often have train diesel hauled back as far as Chester triangle instead to turn the steam loco that worked it West.

Ahh every days a school day! Thank you

 

[Irascible]

No. My recollection is of reading about a system where the motion of the controls was physically carried through wires from the driver’s position in the trailer to the loco. One problem was that it required very careful adjustment each time the loco was changed. (I read about it a while ago and hope I haven’t got completely confused.)

Oo, I get you now. That sounds quite horrible in practice, all that play & stretching to cope with. Modern minds associate wiring with electricals, I guess.