Halton Curve upgrade is on

[Holly]

The tunnel byelaws refer to this. They prohibit cyclists (as well as many other types of vehicle, although I can't see a reference to pedestrians or wheelchairs) in the Wallasey (Queensway) tunnel entirely. They prohibit cyclists under 14 in the Birkenhead tunnel, and prohibit all cyclists during the day on Monday-Friday and summer Sundays. ...

Queensway - Birkenhead
Kingsway - Wallasey
Stupid names, endless confusion.
They should have formally their common usage names - Wallasey tunnel and Birkenhead tunnel.

 

[Camden]

Even if you were able to cycle through 24/7, neither are really up to the job of offering a cycle route unless you have some serious horsepower your thighs. It's not like the Greenwich foot tunnel where there are lifts at either end. What goes down, has to slog back up.

 

[kieron]

Queensway - Birkenhead
Kingsway - Wallasey
Stupid names, endless confusion.
They should have formally their common usage names - Wallasey tunnel and Birkenhead tunnel.

I knew that, I think I must have lost track when I was rearranging the paragraph. I suppose it's just as well they didn't do something similar for the Mersey Gateway Bridge, even if only one word in the name tells you anything about the structure.

Even if you were able to cycle through 24/7, neither are really up to the job of offering a cycle route unless you have some serious horsepower your thighs. It's not like the Greenwich foot tunnel where there are lifts at either end. What goes down, has to slog back up.

I haven't used it myself, but I wouldn't have thought it could be that bad when an organisation is promoting it for families. Being able to stop whenever you want without causing problems makes a big difference with any hill, though.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Queensway - Birkenhead
Kingsway - Wallasey
Stupid names, endless confusion.
They should have formally their common usage names - Wallasey tunnel and Birkenhead tunnel.

The Runcorn-Widnes rail bridge is the Queen Aethelflaed/Ethelfleda Bridge - now there's a name you can't confuse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runcorn_Railway_Bridge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Æthelflæd

Demonstrates that Cheshire was not always in "the north" and that the Mersey was the boundary between Mercia and Northumbria for centuries.

Doubtless the new road bridge will be called something prosaic like the Queen Elizabeth bridge.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Some news on the actual Halton Curve..

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/maynard-confirms-halton-curve-will-reopen-at-end-of-2018?dorewrite=false

 

[baldyman26]

I travelled through the Wallasey Tunnel yesterday afternoon towards Wallasey at 1400 and returning at 1600. Both journeys had long queues at the tolls and on the return journey the queue from Liverpool was into the tunnel itself In Liverpool there was quite a queue awaiting entry.
Whilst I am against the tolls I think that they are a necessary evil. If a person using a train or bus (or even the ferry when it works) had toll free access a good many would change to the car making the situation in Liverpool more gridlocked than ever.

As someone who has the misfortune to have to use the Mersey Tunnel every day, I can tell you that the queues are usually as a result of the out dated, antiquated toll system we are forced to use, The fast tag lane Merseytravel decided to bring in actually makes the situation worse as there is no pre warning other than a yellow sign above the actual toll, the lane is usually stuck in the middle of standard tolls so you then have drivers trying to work out which queue they are meant to be in, having to cross into different lanes to avoid the fast tag lane. There is absolutely no traffic management until you are yards away from the toll booths.

Tolls will never be abolished in the tunnels due to the fact that the revenue surpluses are used to finance other transport schemes within Merseyside such as Merseytravels new plush waterfront offices. Problem I have is as many others probably do, I have no option but to use the tunnel as public transport just isn't cost effective due to my work location.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

I recently contacted Network Rail to enquire whether the single option for the Halton Curve has been finalised yet. It hadn't been fully signed off but they have sent me the design that has gone for final approval. I have now tidied up the post and added the drawing they sent me.


The single option design for the Halton Curve scheme is in the process of being agreed by rail industry stakeholders and this is due to be concluded in the coming weeks.

In summary, the scheme shall:

Provide a new crossover and renewed turnout (40mph) at the Halton end (Control from MROC Wavertree workstation)
Provide a new crossover (25mph) at the Frodsham end (Control from Frodsham Jn SB);
Provide a new relay based interlocking and re-signalling of existing Frodsham control area with LED colour light signals and train detection provided by track circuits;
Revise signalling arrangements at Frodsham/Halton/MROC to accommodate the bi-directional signalling using TCB;
Retain the existing method of Absolute Block Working from Frodsham to Helsby Junction and Norton Signal Boxes;
Replace the existing mechanical lever frame at Frodsham and replace with an Independent Function Switch (IFS) panel;
Install OLE overrun protection from Halton Junction.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Good find.
Looks like no doubling planned, a decent modern connection at the Halton end and a "do minimum" upgrade at the Frodsham end.
Surprised the Frodsham end is not going to be fully modernised and worked from the ROC or Chester PSB.
Maybe that would break the budget.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Good find.
Looks like no doubling planned, a decent modern connection at the Halton end and a "do minimum" upgrade at the Frodsham end.
Surprised the Frodsham end is not going to be fully modernised and worked from the ROC or Chester PSB.
Maybe that would break the budget.

NR did send me a sketch as well but I can't cut and paste from a tablet

 

[The Planner]

Like I have said before, there is no need for it to be doubled with the service level proposed.

 

[frodshamfella]

The important thing is to get it operational fully again, single or double. A single line was all there was to Redditch until recently, can be doubled in the future. I understand there is provision for a future station at Beechwood also.

 

[QueensCurve]

I recently contacted Network Rail to enquire whether the single option for the Halton Curve has been finalised yet. It hadn't been fully signed off but they have sent me the design that has gone for final approval. I have now tidied up the post and added the drawing they sent me.


The single option design for the Halton Curve scheme is in the process of being agreed by rail industry stakeholders and this is due to be concluded in the coming weeks.

In summary, the scheme shall:

Provide a new crossover and renewed turnout (40mph) at the Halton end (Control from MROC Wavertree workstation)
Provide a new crossover (25mph) at the Frodsham end (Control from Frodsham Jn SB);
Provide a new relay based interlocking and re-signalling of existing Frodsham control area with LED colour light signals and train detection provided by track circuits;
Revise signalling arrangements at Frodsham/Halton/MROC to accommodate the bi-directional signalling using TCB;
Retain the existing method of Absolute Block Working from Frodsham to Helsby Junction and Norton Signal Boxes;
Replace the existing mechanical lever frame at Frodsham and replace with an Independent Function Switch (IFS) panel;
Install OLE overrun protection from Halton Junction.

Does the 40mph turnout at the Runcorn (Norton?) end reflect the speed of the Halton curve?

What is the basis for this. Presumably a faster turnout would have less effect on capacity on the Weaver to Wavertree route. Does 40mph represent a compromise?

 

[craigybagel]

Does the 40mph turnout at the Runcorn (Norton?) end reflect the speed of the Halton curve?

What is the basis for this. Presumably a faster turnout would have less effect on capacity on the Weaver to Wavertree route. Does 40mph represent a compromise?

Given the distance from Runcorn station and the fact the line won't be electrified is there any point in splashing out on a higher speed turnout?

 

[The Planner]

Depends on what the signalling controls are on to the curve, if its approach controlled in any way then you may not be able to physically drive it any quicker.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Does 40mph represent a compromise?

I'm surprised it's that fast.
The cant at that point is the wrong way on a curve.
At the Frodsham end there are even more constraints, with the viaduct being adjacent.

 

[Class 170101]

Like I have said before, there is no need for it to be doubled with the service level proposed.

Current provision no, but passive provision made for the future to avoid an expensive upgrade later maybe?

 

[The Planner]

It is 1m 54ch long and takes 4 minutes to traverse, which will probably drop to 3 if Halton Jn goes up to 40 mph. How many trains are we going to throw down it to require double tracking, passive or not?

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Taxi drivers in Halton (i.e. Widnes & Runcorn) have just been told that they will be charged £2 each way to use both the new and old bridges, even if they are making a trip which starts and ends in the borough.

 

[HowardGWR]

It is 1m 54ch long and takes 4 minutes to traverse, which will probably drop to 3 if Halton Jn goes up to 40 mph. How many trains are we going to throw down it to require double tracking, passive or not?

I thought you were supposed to know that!

 

[The Planner]

You know what I meant.

 

[edwin_m]

If it had been double, people on here would doubtless be accusing NR of gold-plating it.

 

[frodshamfella]

I'm just pleased to hear of some passenger rail investment in Cheshire/ Merseyside

 

[DJH1971]

Taxi drivers in Halton (i.e. Widnes & Runcorn) have just been told that they will be charged £2 each way to use both the new and old bridges, even if they are making a trip which starts and ends in the borough.

Not to mention that it will also lead to a big increase in traffic through Warrington, especially via Daresbury and Great Sankey by motorists to avoid the tolls.

 

[mpb56125]

Been out today to photograph a Railtour and noticed the following.
Construction compound has been created next to Frodsham viaduct.
New access steps cut into embankment near Frodsham Junction box giving direct access onto branch.
Cable troughing stacked up along side the track.

Some pictures of the tour at
https://mark5812.smugmug.com/Trains-2017/January-2017/i-4vqPprG/A
https://mark5812.smugmug.com/Trains-2017/January-2017/i-dtZwTM8/A
https://mark5812.smugmug.com/Trains-2017/January-2017/i-XFkZMp6/A

Mark
https://mark5812.smugmug.com

 

[Sox]

When the line was originally singled, would they have just removed the up line or would they have also slewed the down line to take advantage of available space?

Not that it's going to get redoubled but if it was there would be an additional cost in repositioning the existing track.

 

[Railman]

When it was singled originally it was a money saving/cut back so absolute bare minimum spending no reallignment.
There can't be much left to "sign off" if contractors are starting work, and the clock is ticking if all the hype over Lime Street remodelling and extra services is to be completed on time. I bet there's a film crew and flag wavers lined up already, and lots of new orange coats ordered.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Any idea what stock is likely to be used on the Liverpool-Chester services via the Halton curve? Guessing it will probably be a Sprinter?

 

[PHILIPE]

Any idea what stock is likely to be used on the Liverpool-Chester services via the Halton curve? Guessing it will probably be a Sprinter?

At the speed that the Wales and Borders new franchise is moving forward, come back and ask in a couple of years time

 

[childwallblues]

At the speed that the Wales and Borders new franchise is moving forward, come back and ask in a couple of years time

Reportedly 150s but where ATW will get the extra units from who knows.
It is a pity that Northern are not going to operate the route. A couple more 769 FLEX ordered would be ideal. Maybe four carriages is a bit too many to start with but a FLEX would be able to run 13 miles under the OHL and 14 miles on diesel power.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Taxi drivers in Halton (i.e. Widnes & Runcorn) have just been told that they will be charged £2 each way to use both the new and old bridges, even if they are making a trip which starts and ends in the borough.

It only used to be 2d per person per trip on t'ferry when Widnes was in Lancashire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IRbgspkAy8

They don't make videos like this any more!