Class 458/5

[Bigfoot]

The Pendo depot is an Alstom facility. As Wabtec were the subcontractor to Alstom perhaps they decided to undertake the rectification, themselves and miss Wabtec out. I've heard it's a massive job, Alstom will probably have the best chance in regards the burnt wiring as they will have all the schematics and knowledge.

My understanding was the wiring wasn't so much of an issue. It was the damage to the structure of the coach and floor that was the sticking point. Almost to the point of having to potentially rebuild one of the remaining and unrequired 460 luggage coaches. Although that was obviously a last resort.

 

[swt_passenger]

My understanding was the wiring wasn't so much of an issue. It was the damage to the structure of the coach and floor that was the sticking point.

I'd agree. The photos in the RAIB report do strongly suggest that the only damage to 'wiring' was that associated with the burnt out shoe cable junction box that was the cause of the fire.

After all the analysis the problem was basically just a very loose nut on a stud joining 2 shoe cables to the DC bus cable, nothing hi-tec about the issue at all.

But this has all been discussed earlier in this thread, my question a few posts back was just intended to ask if Alstom had the facilities to do the repair at Wembley. I didn't mention Wabtec being a subcontractor to Alstom as that was assumed to be widely understood by now...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The Pendo depot is an Alstom facility.

It's not the Pendo depot they're in, though. It's the workshops on the east side of the DC lines. The bits from 458 501 are visible in the background in these two pictures.

 

[Defiance149]

It's not the Pendo depot they're in, though. It's the workshops on the east side of the DC lines. The bits from 458 501 are visible in the background in these two pictures.

That's Wembley Heavy Repair Depot, it's still part of the Alstom site.

 

[43096]

That's Wembley Heavy Repair Depot, it's still part of the Alstom site.

Wherever, whatever, can Alstom stop messing around moving it around the country and actually get it repaired? It's now almost 12 months since the fire and they've done bugger all. There are daily failures and short forms of the crap Alstom have sent to SWT, so could do with the full number of sets...

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Simple just order loads more 707's and send the 459 back to a yard such as Eastleigh for storage until such time as they can get them working reliably or better still send them to the breaker's yard.

 

[infobleep]

Simple just order loads more 707's and send the 459 back to a yard such as Eastleigh for storage until such time as they can get them working reliably or better still send them to the breaker's yard.

But they can't churn out carriages as fast as we use to. They are far more complicated these days. In the mean time SWT need carriages before the 707s are built.

There is another option. Reduce the number of carriages used for services in the timetable. Then they won't have any short formations as the trains will be timetabled to be shorter.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I know that, but they need to extend the 707 order, so they can be rid of the 459s for good.

Also putting them in to store and making it known publicly why they're in store, may just give Alsthom a kick where it hurts as to get the problems sorted out PDQ as well as some very undesirable publicity regarding the reliability of their products.

 

[swt_passenger]

Simple just order loads more 707's and send the 459 back to a yard such as Eastleigh for storage until such time as they can get them working reliably or better still send them to the breaker's yard.

Why shouldn't they get back to the high levels of reliability seen before the lengthening, once Wimbledon have re-applied their supposed expertise?

Would more 707s even meet the requirements of SWT's internal cascade plan which apparently sees the 458/5s on the Reading route with first class reinstated?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That's Wembley Heavy Repair Depot, it's still part of the Alstom site.

Thank you.

 

[southern442]

There is another option. Reduce the number of carriages used for services in the timetable. Then they won't have any short formations as the trains will be timetabled to be shorter.

But that's evil!

 

[infobleep]

But that's evil!

Lol. Of course.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

But that's evil!

That makes him the perfect rolling stock/fleet manager material!

 

[infobleep]

That makes him the perfect rolling stock/fleet manager material!

Hehe. I sense a career change!

 

[dgl]

just offer them to tfl when they take over the suburban routes.

 

[southern442]

just offer them to tfl when they take over the suburban routes.

*if they take over suburban routes.

I will crush them if it's the last thing I do! I don't want longitudinal seating on my trains thank you very much.

 

[43096]

Simple just order loads more 707's and send the 459 back to a yard such as Eastleigh for storage until such time as they can get them working reliably or better still send them to the breaker's yard.

No such thing as a 459.

I know the crew diagrams refer to 459s, but that's just so the easily bewildered don't get confused with something that no longer exists!

I'm sure Wimbledon will sort the 458/5s out, just the conversion has been an über shambles.

 

[Goldfish62]

just offer them to tfl when they take over the suburban routes.

Not so odd when you consider that Alstom offered them for the East London part of London Overground!

 

[Feathers44]

No such thing as a 459.

I know the crew diagrams refer to 459s, but that's just so the easily bewildered don't get confused with something that no longer exists!

I'm sure Wimbledon will sort the 458/5s out, just the conversion has been an über shambles.

That's true. Can we just go back to calling them 458s please?

 

[HeelBurton]

458 513 appears to be problematic. couldn't couple it button didn't work! Had to use the unit closest to the blocks.

 

[cjmillsnun]

No such thing as a 459.

I know the crew diagrams refer to 459s, but that's just so the easily bewildered don't get confused with something that no longer exists!

I'm sure Wimbledon will sort the 458/5s out, just the conversion has been an über shambles.

I really doubt that the traincrew will be bewildered by the trains being 458/5s. The reason they are 459 in crew diagram is down to the diagramming computer only having three digits to describe a unit. I seem to remember Juniper Driver mentioned this in a different thread.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Once the conversion process is finally complete will they go back to being 458s on the crew diagrams or will they stick with being 459s?

 

[cjmillsnun]

Once the conversion process is finally complete will they go back to being 458s on the crew diagrams or will they stick with being 459s?

As no 458/0s are in service, the time would be now for SWT to change it.

 

[WarrenTManager]

What should be 8507 is somewhere near Finsbury Park.

 

[swt_passenger]

What should be 8507 is somewhere near Finsbury Park.

74428 is the additional car apparently.

So that is two left for delivery (not counting 458510 under repair) which should probably still be achievable during February? Back in early December I thought late Feb or early March would see the last one appear based on the typical conversion times.

 

[Juniper Driver]

As no 458/0s are in service, the time would be now for SWT to change it.

Suppose they will in time but I doubt SWT or too many drivers are bothered about it.

 

[infobleep]

Suppose they will in time but I doubt SWT or too many drivers are bothered about it.

Would it really have mattered it they had just used 459 full stop? I know they are a conversion from 458 but surely so what?

 

[swt_passenger]

Would it really have mattered it they had just used 459 full stop? I know they are a conversion from 458 but surely so what?

In principle, they could have given them any suitable unused class number in the 4nn range. It is only the individual vehicle numbers that have to remain unchanged as far as the rolling stock library is concerned.

There's a local precedent as well, because SWT changed 11 x 158s into 159s for no real reason other than to easily differentiate their 3 car and 2 car DMUs.

But the 458/5s will no longer require differentiation from 458/0 once the conversion is complete, so there was no need for a permanent change. However there is possibly still train crew who sign 458s and have not yet been re-qualified on the modified units. That would mean the train crew diagrammers themselves would still need to distinguish between the sub classes in terms of crew competence.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I think you'll find that they've trained everyone they're going to train on them now, so if you don't know them anymore or know them now, then it's unlikely you will in the future.

I've been trained twice and crossed them off twice, I don't consider it any great loss, in fact I consider it a bonus.

 

[Juniper Driver]

I need every traction and route I sign for at my depot to make it more possible for me to changeover with link 2 (or any) drivers for the really early turns which would make it a bonus.