Future of Island Line

[MarkyT]

If guards are not allowed to use the communicating doors between carriages, then how are fares collected? Would this account for the decline in passenger numbers, or have additional staff been employed?

I can understand that the old communicating doors might be considered unsafe to use whilst bowling along at speed, and if you could only use them whilst stationary (at a platform) then you might as well exit the car and reenter the next one by the normal passenger doors.

If the ex-tube vehicles were replaced by newer secondhand ones in the future, it would be worth considering in a refurb project if some sort of enclosed gangway design could be incorporated, as proposed for the Vivarail D-train rebuild of the D78s. Whilst not going so far as the extra-wide gangways of the latest TfL trains, something convenient and safe could be provided, usable by passengers and staff alike.

 

[jon0844]

An ITSO cards are designed to be inter-operable between different companies so your Key card will work on Southern Vectis, SWT enabled routes (which does cover Island Line) as well as Stagecoach and most, if not all, Go-Ahead buses

I realise that's meant to be the case, and I have used a Southern card on Great Northern, but I still need to register a new account on the Southern Vectis site to be able to add credit, which I tried. It said it succeeded but now says no card is on my account.

So, in reality it doesn't work.

As the cards are free, I can just apply for another one (I need one for my wife too) or maybe just pay cash on the day. I hope the buses are reliable as I don't want to use taxis and hiring a car seemed silly (might as well have driven all the way then).

 

[67018]

As the cards are free, I can just apply for another one (I need one for my wife too) or maybe just pay cash on the day. I hope the buses are reliable as I don't want to use taxis and hiring a car seemed silly (might as well have driven all the way then).

My experience is that the buses are reliable and they seem to have a good reputation. In fact this is one of the challenges for the rail line, as a good value bus network with a variety of ticketing offers and a decent network of routes offers strong competition. Bus and rail aren't well integrated and this isn't helped by the location of some of the stations, and the rail line doesn't serve he area round Newport where there are heaviest traffic flows and most congestion.

For this and other reasons, the various suggestions above for new stock are pie in the sky - the line is never going to justify anything other than cast-off stock. In fact I'm surprised some of the northern contingent on here haven't suggest converting some Pacers to third rail

 

[DelW]

I can understand that the old communicating doors might be considered unsafe to use whilst bowling along at speed, and if you could only use them whilst stationary (at a platform) then you might as well exit the car and reenter the next one by the normal passenger doors.

"Bowling along at speed" is not a description much associated with Island Line

My trips are usually undertaken on summer weekends, and often the bigger problem is that there are so many standing passengers, bikes, buggies, luggage, etc. that the only way to move between or even within cars, is along the platform at stops.

 

[Greenback]

My experience is that the buses are reliable and they seem to have a good reputation. In fact this is one of the challenges for the rail line, as a good value bus network with a variety of ticketing offers and a decent network of routes offers strong competition. Bus and rail aren't well integrated and this isn't helped by the location of some of the stations, and the rail line doesn't serve he area round Newport where there are heaviest traffic flows and most congestion.

Agreed. I've used the buses a lot in the west of the island and I thought they were reliable and comfortable. Also, the group ticket that covered two days was excellent value for four adults.

For this and other reasons, the various suggestions above for new stock are pie in the sky - the line is never going to justify anything other than cast-off stock. In fact I'm surprised some of the northern contingent on here haven't suggest converting some Pacers to third rail

I do agree that the best the Isle of Wight can hope for is more hand me down, almost life expired stock, just as in the past. It's a pity that the reasons for the retention of Ryde - Shanklin are no longer quite so relevant, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the line should close. To me, a better timetable is the most urgent need, as I believe the current one is doing nothing to generate greater usage.

 

[Chris125]

Does any viable potential tram route exist that a tram could take starting on the pier, via the esplanade station then bypassing the tunnel to rejoin somewhere around Ryde St Johns?

I doubt that could be justified - as previously described clearances shouldn't be an issue for trams, when built the tunnel "had an arch peak 14ft above rail level, so it looks as if BR only raised it about 8 inches... The main issues with getting stock through the tunnel is the arch shape and width combined with 9-10 chain reverse curves within the tunnel"

The original Ryde Pier Tramway did run to Ryde St Johns before the railway was extended to the pier [through a house!], but I can't see the risk and expense being justified now.

If guards are not allowed to use the communicating doors between carriages, then how are fares collected?

With great difficulty! They were locking out carriages and using two guards at busy times, but they do seem to be using the inter-car doors now when stationary - this still makes it hard to collect fares however and people are routinely missed.

 

[Argosy]

I have to admit I was basing my comment on old photographs, not personal knowledge, but the headroom doesn't look generous in the photos linked below (scroll 2/3 down for viaduct photos).

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65976-newport-isle-of-wight-1970-1976/

But either way, I don't think there's any doubt that subsequent changes in the area have meant that reinstatement of the old alignment is completely impractical.

Hi DelW,

I was in mid flow and pressed the wrong button! Ah well part 2.

The whole Island scene has changed dramatically, I mean really dramatically since the 1960's.

Then there were two main corridors Ryde-Newport-Cowes (To Islanders Cowes is always West Cowes, East Cowes always being known as such.) and Ryde-Sandown/Shanklin-Ventnor.

The three biggest towns being Newport, Ryde and Cowes. Cowes was really an industrial town that with the demise of much of its engineering base has become even more yachtified. The dominance of yachting is really incredible, but tends to employ people in small firms not large ones like JS Whites, BHC, Plessey etc.

Ryde was the gateway to the Island with massive seasonal fluctuations as it 'processed' via the pier thousands of holidaymakers going to Sandown, Shanklin and to a lesser extent Ventnor.

Newport was always a bit of an enigma, geographically central, home to the Council (and thus jobs) and the largest town with a large number of people employed at the three prisons.

Shopping wise the Island was a joke, never having any major stores till Tesco decided to open a major store at Ryde Airport in the early 80's. Since then we have seen Marks & Sparks arrive, Sainsbury's, Morrisons etc and these are all in Newport thus pulling more people into the centre and thus adding to the traffic problem.

Now, had the railways limbered on there could have been a case for a mix of some kind of tram/heritage service provided, though I suspect too much time would have elapsed before attitudes to climate change came more to the fore, resulting in the closures anyway. Nevertheless this really is the way it should go, because the issues on the Island are quite bad and will only deteriorate.

Outside of Newport and Cowes, much of the old alignments are traceable but trying to recreate Ryde-Newport-Cowes is impossible unless some kind of tram system was constructed using part of the old alignments. There again one can no longer effectively get to the old station site in Cowes. Houses have been built on the approach to Mill Hill and between the tunnel and the old terminus now a supermarket. If a tram system was ever to come to fruition, it would make sense for the IoW steam railway to work the Ryde-Sandown-Ventnor (ever hopeful) axis with its traditional tourist appeal.

So sadly, the here and now policy has stored up problems for the future.

I recall IoWCC did get some studies done, probably around 2002ish and IIRC the tram idea was binned as too expensive.

That is probably the correct assumption, certainly on financial grounds, but unless the bullet is bit so to speak one suspects these arguments/issues will forever dog the Island's transport network.

Finally, on a much more positive note, if any poster visits the Island please go to the End of the Line cafe at Freshwater. It is built on the former station throat of Freshwater station and has lots of interesting photos of the station area on the walls. Part of the old station platform is still visible in the Co-op car park (although the Co-op is relocating soon across the road). It is located at the bottom of Hooke Hill/Afton Road. The cafe is about 100yds/m along Afton Road.

 

[Rick1984]

Indeed the guard will often remain in one car the whole journey.

When there are two gaurds one doesnt tend to travel full route, maybe due to staff being based at St. Jonhs or timetabling?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Time for TVMs and penalty fares? There aren't many stations, so the cost wouldn't be impossibly high?

 

[DarloRich]

seems the issue may be over: http://www.globalrailnews.com/2015/...cluded-in-future-south-west-trains-franchise/

Rail News

The future of Island Line rail services on the Isle of Wight appear to have been secured.

The Isle of Wight Council said it had received assurance from the Department for Transport (DfT) that the Island Line will be included in the future South West Trains franchise, which is due to be tendered in spring 2017.

Deputy Leader of the council Stephen Stubbings said: “The meeting with the Department for Transport was extremely positive and constructive. It gives me great hope that together with the DfT and local stakeholders, we will find the right solution for the future of Island Line.”

The DfT said it was also looking for greater community input in shaping the franchise specification, a process that will get underway later this year.

 

[Greenback]

Was it ever really an issue? No doubt as the next franchise nears the end of its life it will start again, mostly political posturing in my view.

 

[DarloRich]

Was it ever really an issue? No doubt as the next franchise nears the end of its life it will start again, mostly political posturing in my view.

it is silly season

 

[Chris125]

Alas it's not over yet...

Confusion over Island Line franchise 'decision'

a DfT spokesman said: "As we have repeatedly made clear, no decisions have yet been made about the inclusion of the Island Line in the next South West Trains franchise and to suggest otherwise is inaccurate and misleading. We are working closely with our local partners to look at the best way forward in order to ensure the maximum benefits to the local community, passengers, businesses and visitors to the Island.

"We will not make any decisions without taking local views into account."

But deputy Isle of Wight Council leader Cllr Stubbings has defended council deputy managing director John Metcalfe’s interpretation of the DfT meeting.

He suggested the DfT’s latest statement may have followed 'behind the scenes’ discussions.

He said: "I think there have been frantic phone calls from the MP’s office.

Presumably the DfT have decided to keep up the pretence that they are considering alternatives to avoid humiliating the local MP - it's pretty clear now that he has almost no local support and I doubt there's any enthusiasm in the DfT either.

Chris

 

[jon0844]

Time for TVMs and penalty fares? There aren't many stations, so the cost wouldn't be impossibly high?

It amazes me how we seem to make fare evasion so easy, such that it becomes a habit for a lot of people. And then later on, we start to hear about things not being profitable, or that services are too crowded...

I haven't been to IOW for ages but will be there in two weeks, so I'll have to look and see how easy it is to fare dodge (not by doing it, I hasten to add).

 

[Rick1984]

I wouldn't say fare evasion was the fault of passangers. With lack of ticket machines, tight connections with ferry and gaurd in one carriage only, there often simply isnt the opportunity to purchase a ticket.

 

[fandroid]

Just a few thoughts from a regular visitor.

It's a myth that the IOW is becoming a retirement isle. Retiring there seemed almost compulsory in the 1960s, but there was a recent survey that showed that IOW was fairly low down in terms of districts with high numbers of retirees. It does have an employment problem. Big (engineering) employers have drifted away and commuting to the mainland is slow and expensive. It also suffers a bit from gentrification, with second homes increasing in number.

I am sure that the bus-pass issue is one big main cause of the railway losing passengers. As a bus-pass holder myself, I admit to an unconscious reluctance to pay anything for local transport ! I'm sure the best way for the council to get more bums on train seats would be to lobby very hard with DfT to get bus-pass acceptance on the island trains as a franchise requirement.

The gateway to the line at Ryde is awful! The pier station is a dump, when looked at from any direction. It's a Wightlink pier that happens to have some fairly anonymous rail lines on it. Some attention by SWT and some ticket machines would be a good start! Red Funnel have just installed some at their Cowes terminal, so it wouldn't hurt to have some at Ryde pier head too.
Ryde Esplanade is a dark crabby little station. Yes, it has facilities, but it will attract just about zero punters in from outside, and there are normally thousands milling around in the summer! There was a plan for a Ryde transport hub rebuild, but the recession killed that. It desperately needs to be revived. Other stations, like Brading, Sandown and Shanklin are all well looked after, but they are not where most visitors first see the railway.

The trains do not inspire (well not if you are not a transport enthusiast). Buses have improved dramatically over the decades, whereas Island Line trains have just got shabbier and shabbier (and older!). Noisy, grubby, jerky. If they cannot be replaced soon, then they need the sort of refresh that is normal on the mainland. (Another franchise requirement!). Even organising an enthusiasts supporters group to work on the cosmetic side would be better than what is (not) happening now. The railway will fail if it's not attractive to visitors (including car-borne ones).

The odd person suggests that the railway was a loss to Cowes. The current reality is that Cowes has a bus every 8 minutes to Newport. The route is direct but manages to serve the places where people live between the two towns. The railway served nothing but the shore of the river Medina! Alternate buses connect to within 10 metres of the door of the Redjet terminal for fast catamarans to Southampton. The station was about 500 metres away uphill.

 

[Michael.Y]

I've no doubt that Southern Vectis serve the island well, and they seem to do it in a sensible manner considering their monopoly. But the railway is there, and to close it, neglect it or let it die for a couple of minor rectifiable details seems like such a waste.

Given that Southern Vectis is a Go-Ahead (GoVia) brand, geographical, historical and logistical considerations aside, perhaps the best thing to do would be to "transfer" Island Lines from the South West Trains franchise to the Southern franchise, so that Go-Ahead could use the Island Line as an extension of their bus operation. After all, the original units were 7-VECTIS, were they not?

 

[NSEFAN]

4-VEC and 3-TIS units I believe. Good old SR tradition.

 

[Argosy]

I've no doubt that Southern Vectis serve the island well, and they seem to do it in a sensible manner considering their monopoly. But the railway is there, and to close it, neglect it or let it die for a couple of minor rectifiable details seems like such a waste.

Given that Southern Vectis is a Go-Ahead (GoVia) brand, geographical, historical and logistical considerations aside, perhaps the best thing to do would be to "transfer" Island Lines from the South West Trains franchise to the Southern franchise, so that Go-Ahead could use the Island Line as an extension of their bus operation. After all, the original units were 7-VECTIS, were they not?

The Island line and SVOC were always integrated and the Rover ticket was always inter-available on the Island line. The line mind is somewhat over simplified in some of the previous posts because it doesn't really serve where many locals want to go.

The main shopping areas on the Island were traditionally Newport and Ryde. Cowes, Sandown. Shanklin and Ventnor offer very local facilities. When Tesco arrived at Ryde Airport it broke the mould somewhat but the other issue is the topography of Ryde. It lies on the side of a fairly pronounced hill with the railway nowhere near except at the Esplanade. The bus therefore offers a far better means of accessing it and in days gone by we would get off the bus in West Street near the Parish Church, then walk down John Street to High Street and slowly shop going northwards, down towards Union Street ending up at the Esplanade. Thus shopping 'downhill' and get the bus back.

Leisure facilities are nowhere near the railway either e.g. the Library and cinema. Elsewhere most of the leisure facilities for locals are in Newport. Thus the Island line is very much on a Portsmouth Harbour - Ryde- Sandown - Shanklin axis and thus only really suitable for journeys that need to use that axis, such as trips to the mainland via Portsmouth.

Whilst incredibly difficult, the only real long term solution would be to build a new Medina crossing (north of Parkhurst), find a mechanism of getting the steam railway to take over the existing line south of Smallbrook with an aim to reach Ventnor(?) and endeavouring to rebuild the route to Newport and Cowes using a tram. Getting to Newport might be possible but on to Cowes very difficult since the Riverway Estate has been extended in recent years and housing covers much of the old alignment in the Cowes urban area.

Cost? I'd say about £1bn+. Hence I don't think it would happen, however it would align the needs of most islanders more readily than the current arrangement and if it served St Marys Hospital and the prisons might have some merit.

 

[jon0844]

When we arrive in what I assume is Ryde from Portsmouth (going by the train ticket itinerary), we are going on to Ventnor Town - is it better to take a train and bus, or just get a bus from Ryde all the way?

I will ride the train at some point, obviously, but when we're going to the hotel early on Saturday morning we just want to get there with minimal fuss (but not getting a taxi).

 

[Greenback]

Personally, and I hate to say this as a railway enthusiast, but I find the bus ride all the way from Ryde more comfortable and with better views.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

If you assume both methods to have the max possible number of people standing, which can carry the most people a 2 car Island Line train or a double decker bus? It looks like both have about the same frequency of services (route number 3 for the bus), what if the bus was made to run every 15 mins?

 

[Camden]

I reckon the Island Line has had its chips.

 

[Chris125]

When we arrive in what I assume is Ryde from Portsmouth (going by the train ticket itinerary), we are going on to Ventnor Town - is it better to take a train and bus, or just get a bus from Ryde all the way?

I'd recommend going via the train, you'll need to get down the half-mile long Ryde pier anyway and the bus (no 3) to Ventnor goes via the station at Shanklin anyway.

If you assume both methods to have the max possible number of people standing, which can carry the most people a 2 car Island Line train or a double decker bus? It looks like both have about the same frequency of services (route number 3 for the bus), what if the bus was made to run every 15 mins?

I can't see it making any appreciable difference - the train is cheaper, quicker, a lot more reliable in summer, IMO a great deal more comfortable thanks to the pretty ropey roads down here, and crucially it provides a direct interchange at Ryde Pier Head with the Catamaran to Portsmouth Harbour.

 

[Greenback]

My choice of using the bus is heavily influenced by the fact that the trains don't go to Ventnor, so it's necessary to catch a bus at some point anyway.

 

[fandroid]

When we arrive in what I assume is Ryde from Portsmouth (going by the train ticket itinerary), we are going on to Ventnor Town - is it better to take a train and bus, or just get a bus from Ryde all the way?

I will ride the train at some point, obviously, but when we're going to the hotel early on Saturday morning we just want to get there with minimal fuss (but not getting a taxi).

As the train is the only (non-taxi) way of getting a ride from the ferry to the shore, you may as well stay on the train and change to the bus at Shanklin. A check on the timetables may show that it's going to be quicker overall anyway. The train is actually cheaper than the buses to Shanklin (well, it was when I last checked!) so you may save a few pennies too.

 

[Greenback]

If you're going to be buying a pass to travel from Ventnor while you are there, then what's the point of paying extra to sue a train?

I prefer the view from the bus, too. Naturally, anyone in a hurry would be better taking the train, but I'm seldom in a rush.

 

[Dr_Paul]

This could be the dumbest post ever, but given that the needs of the Island Line are so specific, why don't they order line-specific trains, from the makers of Tube stock if necessary? Is it that a small fleet would be uneconomical for the manufacturers?

We're talking about the Isle of Wight; it has never received anything new in the past, why break with tradition now? I'm surprised that it didn't get the Bulleid Waterloo and City stock when that was retired.

On a more serious note, I've always wondered how the remaining remnant of the Isle's system has managed to survive, when the rest of the extensive system has closed, and I'd never be surprised were its closure to be mooted.

And just to make everyone (including me) a bit envious; my dad travelled the whole Isle of Wight system, except the Freshwater branch, back in the early 1950s, ancient rolling stock and locomotives, all well-maintained. Week-long unlimited travel tickets were available at that time.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The fact is that the closures were opposed in the 1950's and 1960's by local interests - (to no avail really) - a work of vision kept what is there now - the challenge will be keeping it going for whatever reason....

 

[jopsuk]

What happened to the service such that it went from being run with effectively six 7-car (well, 5.5ish) trains to just five 2-car units? THat's quite a massive reduction in capacity.