Future of Island Line

[Chris125]

I think the only unit out of use long-term is 002, though the others are looking a little tired and patchy now since their last repaint - unfortunately it doesn't take long for the rust to show on the roof.

As for it looking 'depressing' it looks much more loved that it did 10 years ago, and in recent years the facilities at Ryde Pier Head have been radically improved by the ferry company, the Island platform at Brading has been tidied up and the Signalbox restored, Sandown has gained a new shelter and a successful station café so progress is being made, but major changes will require major investment.

 

[HSTEd]

I really really doubt it, would make an earth fault 20 times worse, so the bleed resistors wouldn't cope with it, especially with very spaced out subs.

If you isolate the power converters then a single earth fault on one of the conductor rail would not upset the system since it would simply tie one conductor rail to ground.

The only thing the gear on the train knows is the difference between the two conductor rails, it doesn't really care if the conductors are at ground earth potential or at -210V or +420V or whatever. Otherwise areas where four rail is shared with third rail wouldn't work properly.

Any current leakage as a result of an earth fault would be detectable as the currents on the two conductor rails wouldn't sum to zero any more. You might even be able to determine if a single point earth fault had occurred by measuring the voltage between each of the conductor rails and the running rails using a suitably high resistance voltmeter (to prevent any significant current flow through the voltmeter in said fault condition).
That would allow crew to go out and find whatever the fault is before massive corrosion took place.

There will be negligible current in the running rails so there should be no problem with electrolytic corrosion.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

What caused the guards to stop using the intermediate doors between the coaches - was there a very bad accident at some point?

 

[hornbyfan99]

Last night I went to the Keep The Island Line in Franchise at Shanklin Theatre to discuss future plans for the Island Line to keep it running and I'm just reporting it back what happened last night.

It was very busy very full in the theatre (Where we met) which was good which showed people care about the Island. The Unions were there as well. Many good ideas and speeches were made. It was announced that the next South Western franchaise holder would have the Island line for the duration of the franchaise. There were also discussions on having more revenue staff on board the trains.

The Island Line serves local communities, takes school children to school and commuters to work. It's an icon to the Island! More people use the railway than they use the Lymington Branch!

Without it, we would be on expensive slow buses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Line MUST STAY OPEN!

 

[deltic]

Last night I went to the Keep The Island Line in Franchise at Shanklin Theatre to discuss future plans for the Island Line to keep it running and I'm just reporting it back what happened last night.

It was very busy very full in the theatre (Where we met) which was good which showed people care about the Island. The Unions were there as well. Many good ideas and speeches were made. It was announced that the next South Western franchaise holder would have the Island line for the duration of the franchaise. There were also discussions on having more revenue staff on board the trains.

The Island Line serves local communities, takes school children to school and commuters to work. It's an icon to the Island! More people use the railway than they use the Lymington Branch!

Without it, we would be on expensive slow buses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Line MUST STAY OPEN!

If the buses received the same level of subsidy as the rail link would they become cheap slow buses?

 

[Greenback]

As I see it, the line provides an essential link with the island, both for visitors and residents. The ability to buy through tickets to the mainland is something that needs to be retained, as well as the line itself.

 

[Chris125]

If the buses received the same level of subsidy as the rail link would they become cheap slow buses?

They wouldn't and Island Line isn't directly subsidised anyway, it's part of a very profitable franchise.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They wouldn't and Island Line isn't subsidised anyway, it's part of a very profitable franchise.

It is subsidised in the form of hidden cross-subsidy, and were it not for it the Government might well be getting a higher premium from SWT.

 

[Chris125]

It is subsidised in the form of hidden cross-subsidy, and were it not for it the Government might well be getting a higher premium from SWT.

Be that as it may, it seems the DfT are taking the view that they don't subsidise Island Line.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It is subsidised in the form of hidden cross-subsidy, and were it not for it the Government might well be getting a higher premium from SWT.

Surely that was the reason for merging them in the first place? Certainly better than the situation in the North, with the loss making local services separated from the profitable expresses...

 

[tbtc]

So this was just a Tory politician whipping up some hysteria about “THEY WANT TO CLOSE OUR LINE” so that he can appear to be the saviour who rescued the route from a non-existent threat? :roll:

I probably shouldn’t be surprised – most copies of Private Eye show fairly damning evidence of idiots being in charge on the Island.

There’s a lot of enthusiastic ideas for new stock in this thread, some very inventive, but most people seem to be ignoring the more significant problems.

The current stock isn’t an issue – its age is almost a benefit since they were built so long ago that they are so simple that there’s very little that can go wrong. We’ll still have the 483s operating after most Sprinters and Pacers are recycled as razor blades (hmm, would you trust razors made out of 142s? Squealing as they encountered the contours of your jaw bone? Bouncing up and down as they tried to tackle your chin? ).

The real problem is the reduction in passenger numbers, at a time when they are going up at virtually every station on the mainland. The Isle of Wight seems to be slowly transformed from a living working island into a retirement home, which obviously impacts upon demand for travel.

So, not only are the passenger numbers falling, but the average fare per passenger will be lower – as pensioners will pay less than those of working age.

Just take a look at the passenger numbers. Down from 1,444,772 passengers per year in 2011/2012 (1,984 passengers in each direction a day) to 1,192,030 passengers in 2013/2014 (1,637 passengers in each direction a day). Pretty rubbish when compared to growth elsewhere in the UK. And those numbers aren’t even the worst – the 2011/2012 figures were lower than five years previous in 2006/2007 (so it’s not simply a case that the Lichfield City and Lichfield Trent Valley fare being cheaper than the Ryde Pier Head to Ryde Esplanade fare is the only reason for the lower numbers – the Gold Cards may have artificially added a few to the numbers but the numbers were dropping anyway).

On some lines, there’s an obvious “fix” to dealing with lower passenger numbers (a failing branch may be revived by running through services to main line destinations), but there’s not a lot to be done here, other than the necessary infrastructure changes (loop at Brading?) to allow a regular half hourly service so that trains can meet the ferries (instead of the current 20/40 split).

You can throw new stock at it (£1.5bn for the S7/S8 stock on London Underground = 191 trains/ 1,395 cars... how many million to kit out the Isle of Wight with new stock? How do you share that cost around a thousand return journeys a day?), you can put 1960s/1970s Underground stock on the Island as a sticking plaster but the Island Line has bigger problems.

Still, if the line is as profitable on its own as some on this thread like to believe then it’d surely be a lucrative micro franchise that companies will be falling over themselves to operate... rather than a loss making pimple on the side of a significantly bigger (and overall-profitable) franchise.

 

[MarkyT]

If the buses received the same level of subsidy as the rail link would they become cheap slow buses?

With the island becoming home to ever more retirees, large numbers of pensioners will be able to use free passes on the buses. That must represent a sizable subsidy, and clearly those passes are not valid on the trains.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just take a look at the passenger numbers. Down from 1,444,772 passengers per year in 2011/2012 (1,984 passengers in each direction a day) to 1,192,030 passengers in 2013/2014 (1,637 passengers in each direction a day). Pretty rubbish when compared to growth elsewhere in the UK. And those numbers aren’t even the worst – the 2011/2012 figures were lower than five years previous in 2006/2007

I think pensioner bus passes may have had something to do with the declining passenger numbers. Elderly residents (of which there are increasing numbers according to some comments here) and visitors can use the buses island-wide for free, and that may have abstracted a significant number of journeys from the railway. Better integration with island bus services could help, with intervalidity of fares and period passes and bus services could be replanned to connect with rail where possible. Perhaps the island could introduce a scheme for their own resident pensioners (although not visitors) to be able to use trains as well as the buses using their free passes.

 

[Greenback]

I haven't been on an IoW train since around 2009. The experience wasn't very nice. the trains were old, smelly and noisy, and the comfort of the buses was of a much higher standard.

The irregularly spaced timetable was also irritating, and, while I want to see the railway line survive and thrive, there are problems that need to be tackled.

 

[BestWestern]

I haven't been on an IoW train since around 2009. The experience wasn't very nice. the trains were old, smelly and noisy, and the comfort of the buses was of a much higher standard.

The irregularly spaced timetable was also irritating, and, while I want to see the railway line survive and thrive, there are problems that need to be tackled.

Smelly? I'm curious as to how a 1938 Tube car, powered by electricity and not fitted with any sort of toilets or catering provision, and which has large chunks of it's bodysides sliding open at regular intervals to allow fresh air in.... Could be 'smelly'?!

But anyway... I agree that clever marketing of the current line's heritage attributes and it's vintage rolling stock, are a good approach to what is a tricky situation.

 

[Chris125]

So this was just a Tory politician whipping up some hysteria about “THEY WANT TO CLOSE OUR LINE” so that he can appear to be the saviour who rescued the route from a non-existent threat? :roll:

He needed something to talk about that wasn't just another ferry campaign, but he's now lost pretty much any support - Island Line franchise: MP left standing alone on Rail CIC

The real problem is the reduction in passenger numbers, at a time when they are going up at virtually every station on the mainland. The Isle of Wight seems to be slowly transformed from a living working island into a retirement home, which obviously impacts upon demand for travel.

You must remember that there have been a series of complete and partial closures in recent years due to flood damage and most recently a landslip at Sandown - as far as I'm aware passenger numbers have otherwise been pretty consistent.

Chris

 

[Argosy]

As a quasi caulkhead the problem with the Island line strategically is that it serves a very tiny corridor.

Other posters have queried why it can't run to Newport or Cowes.

Well where do you start. Sadly probably the closures of 1952. The Island is the only County that has doubled its population since the war. Not bad for a rural community. However the traffic problems are horrendous and the farce the Council made of Newport is a great example of how narrow mindedness led to a traffic scheme that would do a town five times its size proud!

The only routes that really should have gone were Merstone to Ventnor West and Brading to Bembridge. The rest should have stayed.

This would have left Ryde-Sandown-Ventnor, Ryde-Newport-Cowes and Freshwater-Newport-Sandown allowing every sizeable town to be connected to each other. Of course Suffering Vectis as those of us who grew up in the 50's and 60's knew SVOC as had other ideas as they had a vested interest in seeing the railways shut.

Of these places Cowes station was excellently located for the ferry (now hydrofoil), Newport was not in the centre of town but at the back of it. The station building site is now a road junction adjacent to a funeral directors. Freshwater and Yarmouth were not very conveniently located but had the FYN been kept open it would now be transporting hundreds of schoolchildren to the schools in Carisbrooke. Sandown and Ventnor are/were at the back of the town too, but unless access to Ventnor was going to be of alpine proportions there is no way one would have got the railway to a lower elevation. Geological considerations prevented a route around the coast and through Bonchurch.

But the loss of Newport was the big issue, though not seen at the time, when the focus was on the tourist bucket and spade side of the Island on its eastern corridor. With changing attitudes and behaviour this corridor has become less important as most visitors drive to the island through Fishbourne, East Cowes and Yarmouth. Gone are the days when shedloads of grockels would arrive at Ryde Esplanade awaiting a day trip on a coach around the Island. So in the long run, the market has changed.

Island roads are a nightmare, though in recent years there quality has improved a tad, they were once without doubt the worst in Britain for their quality in terms of road surface.

So back to Newport. The railway didn't run on low embankments, actually quite high features. I can remember the Newport viaducts which in their 'feel' gave Newport an approach a bit like a Welsh town with a tight curved approach from both Ryde and Shide (route to Sandown/Ventnor West). The Shide route curved sharply away over Coppins Bridge and then on an embankment out towards Shide. For years afterwards the embankment was part of the AA car park and now forms part of the Newport south eastern 'by-pass'. The route to Ryde curved away to the north east through a tunnel (still there now a footpath) under Fairlee Road and through the back of Fairlee out to Whippingham station near the Island's Crematorium.

The big issue for the Council, which they spectacularly failed to grasp, was the Medina crossing. Instead of providing this, somewhere up near the Folly to come out near the Stag pub at the top end of Parkhurst, they routed everything through enhanced road schemes through Newport creating the ridiculous monstrosity of the Coppins Bridge roundabout which I think has now been remodelled four times. Indeed they had to by-pass that because of traffic trying to get to Ryde, such a mess they made of it. Crazy. And this situation will get worse as it enhances Newport's position as a natural bottleneck.

So it would be impossible to rebuild the line to Cowes as was. I suspect the best bet would be some form of tram system, but the money wouldn't be found to build it. One wants your system to access the centre of town and that is only possible by running on the highway.

As for Sandown and Shanklin, it is true they are a tad out of the way but again unless you are going to use the highway to access the high streets one is stuck with it. Also Sandown High School is close to Sandown station. Moving it away would reduce the market for these children.

 

[SephenWorceste]

Looks like the BBC have picked this up


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-33878932

Island Line 'to be included in next rail franchise'

An Isle of Wight train service will be included in the next South West Trains franchise, the council has said.
Campaigners feared the loss-making service could be dropped when the Stagecoach franchise ends in 2017.
Steve Stubbings, deputy leader at Isle of Wight Council, said The Department for Transport (DfT) had assured the authority the line would be included in the next rail franchise...

On side saying it is in the franchise the other saying possibly not.

I am surprised that in this day and age anybody would consider closing a rail line.

Best wishes, Stephen.

 

[Monty]

Lines have closed in recent history albeit to be converted to light Rail use, both the Croydon Tramlink and the Manchester Metrolink have seen heavy rail lines closed for this purpose. It's been an idea that has been muted for a while now (conversion to light rail), it doesn't mean it will happen but it's not beyond the realms of possibility. Either way a long term solution for the railway's future needs to be found, I don't see services continuing on the pier indefinitely and there will come a time when they may have to curtail the line at the Esplanade station. Rolling stock issues aside Shanklin, Sandown, St John's Road and Esplanade stations need some major TLC. For the next SW franchise it should specify that a certain level of investment needs to be made to ensure the line's future.

 

[SephenWorceste]

I only did Ryde Esplanade to the Pier and back. I was surprised at the sophistication of the Esplanade. Shops, cafe, toilet and ticket office. So different to many I visit which are a platform and a bus shelter. The trains though lovely had seen better days. A guards on an underground train took me back.

I always associate light rail with high frequency packed out urban metro services. Anything to secure the lines future would be good

Best wishes, Stephen.

 

[jon0844]

I'm off to IOW for the bank holiday weekend.

Having got my Key smartcard from Southern Trains, I expected I'd be able to use it on the buses - but when I try and add the card to my Southern Vectis bus account, it says it has worked and then later shows me as having no card attached...

So it seems I need to apply for another Key! How's that for joined up thinking with an ITSO card?!

I assume I can't use the card on the trains either, as that's SWT and another ITSO card...

 

[Chris125]

Either way a long term solution for the railway's future needs to be found, I don't see services continuing on the pier indefinitely and there will come a time when they may have to curtail the line at the Esplanade station.

I can't see any reason to think that - a public transport link with the Catamaran is essential, and the only alternative to the railway pier is the original, Wightlink-owned cast-iron structure which can only take cars with a severe speed limit too.

 

[DelW]

I think pensioner bus passes may have had something to do with the declining passenger numbers. Elderly residents (of which there are increasing numbers according to some comments here) and visitors can use the buses island-wide for free, and that may have abstracted a significant number of journeys from the railway. Better integration with island bus services could help, with intervalidity of fares and period passes and bus services could be replanned to connect with rail where possible. Perhaps the island could introduce a scheme for their own resident pensioners (although not visitors) to be able to use trains as well as the buses using their free passes.

There has been a similar issue on the Heart of Wales line, with persioners' passes promoting transfer to parallel bus routes even though that rail line is directly supported by the WAG. The current compromise is to allow use of bus passes on the trains in winter, when there is little holiday traffic and trains are relatively empty. Maybe that example might be used on the island?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Does any viable potential tram route exist that a tram could take starting on the pier, via the esplanade station then bypassing the tunnel to rejoin somewhere around Ryde St Johns?

 

[wibble]

I'm off to IOW for the bank holiday weekend.

Having got my Key smartcard from Southern Trains, I expected I'd be able to use it on the buses - but when I try and add the card to my Southern Vectis bus account, it says it has worked and then later shows me as having no card attached...

So it seems I need to apply for another Key! How's that for joined up thinking with an ITSO card?!

I assume I can't use the card on the trains either, as that's SWT and another ITSO card...

An ITSO cards are designed to be inter-operable between different companies so your Key card will work on Southern Vectis, SWT enabled routes (which does cover Island Line) as well as Stagecoach and most, if not all, Go-Ahead buses

 

[Bletchleyite]

There has been a similar issue on the Heart of Wales line, with persioners' passes promoting transfer to parallel bus routes even though that rail line is directly supported by the WAG. The current compromise is to allow use of bus passes on the trains in winter, when there is little holiday traffic and trains are relatively empty. Maybe that example might be used on the island?

That also happened on the Conwy Valley, and the result was validity of passes on the train. The owner of the bus company whined, but his service is still profitable and operating as it plugs some gaps in the train timetable.

Is there an argument for involving Southern Vectis in the running of the railway so it gets properly integrated?

 

[DelW]

So back to Newport. The railway didn't run on low embankments, actually quite high features. I can remember the Newport viaducts which in their 'feel' gave Newport an approach a bit like a Welsh town with a tight curved approach from both Ryde and Shide (route to Sandown/Ventnor West).

I have to admit I was basing my comment on old photographs, not personal knowledge, but the headroom doesn't look generous in the photos linked below (scroll 2/3 down for viaduct photos).

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65976-newport-isle-of-wight-1970-1976/

But either way, I don't think there's any doubt that subsequent changes in the area have meant that reinstatement of the old alignment is completely impractical.

 

[Tempest3K]

If I remember correctly, Southern Vectis is part of Go-Ahead so owned by a direct competitor to Stagecoach - now if they go for (and get) the SWT franchise there might be scope for interworking.....

 

[Tom]

An ITSO cards are designed to be inter-operable between different companies so your Key card will work on Southern Vectis, SWT enabled routes (which does cover Island Line) as well as Stagecoach and most, if not all, Go-Ahead buses

That's making an assumption that the commercial arrangements have been made, which isn't a guarantee. And then all the ISAMs have been updated with the appropriate encryption/decryption keys, etc...

Technically, yes, fully interoperable. But there are commercials in play as well. (I don't know whether commercials have been made between Southern/GTR/Go South Coast to facilitate it in this case)

 

[Mojo]

If guards are not allowed to use the communicating doors between carriages, then how are fares collected? Would this account for the decline in passenger numbers, or have additional staff been employed?

 

[Simon11]

If guards are not allowed to use the communicating doors between carriages, then how are fares collected? Would this account for the decline in passenger numbers, or have additional staff been employed?

Guards can use the doors between carriages- saw this happen several times two weeks ago.