Future of Island Line

[yorksrob]

They could always do an add on to an LU order of Tube stock if need be - in the same way that NSE added the Waterloo & City stock order onto a Central line contract if I recall.

 

[tivoli]

Last time we used it, our family of 5 arriving at Shanklin were unable to find a taxi at the station for some time, to take us to our holiday home. The eventual taxi driver quite rightly pointed out that if he picked us up at our holiday home on our return, it would be cheaper for him to take us all the way back to Ryde rather than pay for a taxi to Shanklin station and then on the train, sad but true and to be honest a lot easier with luggage.

Meanwhile, Southern Vectis buses offered a 7 day ticket for use by one or all of us. It was very difficult for me to persuade the rest of the family to favour the train.

 

[MarkyT]

They could always do an add on to an LU order of Tube stock if need be - in the same way that NSE added the Waterloo & City stock order onto a Central line contract if I recall.

Would the operation ever be able to afford new trains? I suspect the island has never received any truly new rolling stock since first opening!

Last time we used it, our family of 5 arriving at Shanklin were unable to find a taxi at the station for some time, to take us to our holiday home. The eventual taxi driver quite rightly pointed out that if he picked us up at our holiday home on our return, it would be cheaper for him to take us all the way back to Ryde rather than pay for a taxi to Shanklin station and then on the train, sad but true and to be honest a lot easier with luggage.

Meanwhile, Southern Vectis buses offered a 7 day ticket for use by one or all of us. It was very difficult for me to persuade the rest of the family to favour the train.

The railway needs to be more effectively integrated into the larger local public transport system then, and should complement rather than overtly competing with it. A 7-day rover ticket on the buses would ideally include rail travel too and the rail operator could then recieve a proportion of the takings from it.
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I'd agree those are the likeliest changes to the infrastructure by far - I'm a lot less convinced that they will move away from deep tube stock given the need to modify the depot, platform heights, and possibly track and structures if they weigh more. With the service still operating at or near 100% reliability replacing the fleet doesn't seem an urgent requirement anyway.

They can probably keep the existing trains going then until the ex-Piccadilly trains become available. I remember reading they are almost totally self-sufficient on the island as far as maintenance is concerned. Even the small tube traction motors can be refurbished and rewound by a local supplier.

 

[Rick1984]

The railway needs to be more effectively integrated into the larger local public transport system then, and should complement rather than overtly competing with it. A 7-day rover ticket on the buses would ideally include rail travel too and the rail operator could then recieve a proportion of the takings from it.

Good points. The train is quicker and cheaper than bus for one journey. It costs me 70p less to go from Ryde to Lidl in Shanklin on train than Tesco in Ryde on the bus.

However both Shanklin and particularly Sandown stations are not very well located with centre or seafront. With no regular bus connection.

 

[90sWereBetter]

I'm sure someone will work out a way of sending Class 442s over to the Island in the next few years...

 

[bussnapperwm]

I'm sure someone will work out a way of sending Class 442s over to the Island in the next few years...

Already worked out a way lol...all it requires is making them open top and attaching low height class 08s onto them

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Why the 08s? The IoW has 3rd rail in place...

 

[87015]

Went today, only 2 cars are on Summer Saturdays what happened to the pairs and/or reliefs in the spare paths? It's been a few years, but piling people in (at Pier Head at least) and leaving those with luggage/buggies behind isn't going to help much...

 

[Michael.Y]

This could be the dumbest post ever, but given that the needs of the Island Line are so specific, why don't they order line-specific trains, from the makers of Tube stock if necessary? Is it that a small fleet would be uneconomical for the manufacturers?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

In a word, yes - any specific order would need to be tagged on to a mainstream tube order to be cost effective.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Give it long enough and I do thing Island Line will end up running the units as single cars.

I'm suprised that they haven't got onto Blackpool Transport to purchase some of the OMO single deck trams. Surely enough with the right tackle the trams could be converted to a single car Island Line unit. Class 353 anyone?

 

[Chris125]

Give it long enough and I do thing Island Line will end up running the units as single cars.

Why? 2-car trains are necessary throughout the year for the busiest journeys, especially at school times, and are often inadequate in summer - it's getting a bit overcrowded at the moment if they aren't paired up.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Would the stock now used on the LU Victoria line have fitted? If it would have fitted, why didn't they tag an order onto the order for that for the Island Line?

 

[ag51ruk]

Would the stock now used on the LU Victoria line have fitted? If it would have fitted, why didn't they tag an order onto the order for that for the Island Line?

Cost - the line doesn't make much money, and it has never been possible to justify stock obtained at anything other than scrap value. Any requirement to buy brand new trains would likely kill the line off completely.

 

[341o2]

I believe all LUL deep level, or "tube" lines are of the same loading guage, however the IOW railways, at least in later years always used second hand stock. the 02s were displaced, then their replacements were withdrawn 1927 stock - incidentially regarding train lengths became 4VEC and 3TIS from Vectis, the Roman name for the IOW.

What is needed is for the Island line to purchase newer redundant LUL tube stock as it becomes avaliable

 

[SephenWorceste]

Where old tube trains go to retire. I did a lovely return from Ryde to the pier head. Reasonably busy if I remember for a mid week afternoon in early May.

 

[SephenWorceste]

Inside my carriage still had the metal panel with the Bakelite style buttons that the guard uses to close the doors.

 

[Hadders]

I suspect they couldn't use the ex-Victoria line 67 stock because the cost of converting it from ATO would've been prohibitive hence the need to wait for 72 stock from the Piccadilly or 73 stock from the Bakerloo.

 

[Nym]

I believe all LUL deep level, or "tube" lines are of the same loading guage, however the IOW railways, at least in later years always used second hand stock. the 02s were displaced, then their replacements were withdrawn 1927 stock - incidentially regarding train lengths became 4VEC and 3TIS from Vectis, the Roman name for the IOW.

What is needed is for the Island line to purchase newer redundant LUL tube stock as it becomes avaliable

There are two or more tube stock gauges if you take account of everything, variances on the main are the New Works Tunnels being larger (Victoria Line) and the position of the positive conductor rail on the east end of the Central Line being different...

I suspect they couldn't use the ex-Victoria line 67 stock because the cost of converting it from ATO would've been prohibitive hence the need to wait for 72 stock from the Piccadilly or 73 stock from the Bakerloo.

67TS is rather difficult to convert and at the same time that was being released there was the Ex. 72TS Mk.I cars running in the cut and shut extended 67TS Mk.II trains, and previously to that, the rest of the 72TS Mk.Is being released from the Northern Line, there wasn't any interest then either, probably due to all the driving vehicles not being fitted with compressors, hence why I'd think they'll be looking at 73TS as I believe the double enders have two compressors fitted in the trailer, so can operate as a 3 car on their own without any modification. The alternative being 72TS that is currently undergoing structural repairs and will need to be made RVAR compliant, one could run 4 car or 3 car units of these...

 

[34D]

Could future trains simply be one of the modern tram designs, ie flexity?

I'm not suggesting at this point any track extensions onto roads, purely the vehicle type.

 

[Haydn1971]

Could future trains simply be one of the modern tram designs, ie flexity?

They could... But at a price which probably won't be economic for the island - plus, isn't the island line third rail ? Has that ever been done on a tram ?

 

[route:oxford]

They could... But at a price which probably won't be economic for the island - plus, isn't the island line third rail ? Has that ever been done on a tram ?

Might as well do a whole load of converstion at the same time.

Can't see any technical reason why they couldn't switch from shoe-gear to induction power. But probs easier to switch between overhead and induction.

 

[Chris125]

...hence why I'd think they'll be looking at 73TS as I believe the double enders have two compressors fitted in the trailer, so can operate as a 3 car on their own without any modification. The alternative being 72TS that is currently undergoing structural repairs and will need to be made RVAR compliant, one could run 4 car or 3 car units of these...

The problem with 3-car trains would be the over/under provision of capacity at certain times, the need to split units for maintenance at Ryde, and the difficulty for a single guard to collect fares without the use of the inter-car doors.

As for the design, the combination of aluminium bodyshell and steel underframe can also lead to corrosion issues IIRC, whereas the all-steel construction of the current stock makes maintenance relatively easy for the staff at Ryde. I'm not sure they ever had door controls in the saloons either.

None of these issues are insurmountable at a cost, but with the current fleet still providing an incredibly reliable service - PPM remains in the high 90s and a Guard writing to the local paper mentioned 100% in a recent period - it's hardly a crisis.

Nor does it seem certain that the cost and risk of replacing one very old fleet with another would prove to be better value than sticking a reliable, tried-and-tested design through another overhaul.

 

[BurtonM]

Would a Parry People Mover be any use down there?

 

[Rick1984]

I'm not sure they ever had door controls in the saloons either.

Do you mean originally?

None of these issues are insurmountable*at a cost, but with the current fleet still providing an incredibly reliable service - PPM remains in the high 90s and a Guard writing to the local paper mentioned 100% in a recent period - it's hardly a crisis.

I'm fairly sure this was the period covering the 10 week closure to repair Sandown embankments. It was on their performance poster.

Do any 4-car trains still operate? I moved to Island last year and have yet to see a pair of trains running in tandem.

 

[Hadders]

There were four car trains running last year when I popped over for a day out. Mid week afternoon iirc. Very busy it was too.

 

[Michael.Y]

Would a Parry People Mover be any use down there?

Line is much too long and busy. In an ideal situation, a fleet of two/three car Class 150-style units would do the job and no-one would bat an eyelid.

 

[satisnek]

Went to the IOW a few years back and had a run down to Shanklin, and I have to admit that I found it thoroughly depressing. Bear in mind that I can remember childhood visits and that BR, even in the austere post-Beeching period, saw fit to provide enough stock for 6 x 7-car trains (with up to 5 in service).

Although the service contracted during this period, notably the section beyond Sandown being reduced to a long siding and the removal of pointwork at Pier Head, together with stock becoming unserviceable, it seems to me that the fatal blow came in the late '80s with singling between Brading and Sandown, which rendered the line semi-useless (unable to provide a 30 minute interval service to match the ferries). And, of course, the introduction of stock only 10 years newer than the old stuff!

Incidentally, I can remember reading that the replacement of the 'standard' stock was problematic because all newer tube stock had the control equipment mounted underfloor, with all the issues this entailed with running on a pier. Don't know what happened subsequently.

My heart would like to see some serious investment in this line but my head says that in the absence of this, perhaps it would be best if it was simply put out of its misery?

 

[Chris125]

Would a Parry People Mover be any use down there?

No, thankfully! The Stourbridge Town design isn't remotely suitable and I can't imagine that concept ever providing the reliability and performance necessary.

Do you mean originally?

If I remember correctly the 73TS was built with One Person Operation conversion in mind, so the guard operated the doors from the rear cab.

Do any 4-car trains still operate? I moved to Island last year and have yet to see a pair of trains running in tandem.

They are awkward to operate now Guards have stopped using the inter-car doors, so they might only be using them when necessary?

Incidentally, I can remember reading that the replacement of the 'standard' stock was problematic because all newer tube stock had the control equipment mounted underfloor, with all the issues this entailed with running on a pier. Don't know what happened subsequently.

My heart would like to see some serious investment in this line but my head says that in the absence of this, perhaps it would be best if it was simply put out of its misery?

In practice they had to stop running up the pier if the waves were crashing over the third rail anyway, so underfloor equipment wasn't really an issue - it seems all they did was fit a splash guard under the resistor grids, just in case of a rogue wave.

As for putting it out of it's misery, don't forget the 1.5m passengers a year who use it! It remains the only public transport up the pier and it's invaluable during the summer when the roads can be horrendous. It's expensive to run, but for a self-contained railway suffering from a long running and labour intensive policy of patch-and-mend that's inevitable.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Would a Parry People Mover be any use down there?

A few others have poo-pooed this, but perhaps the second track up the pier could be used for a 139, in order to allow all ferry arrivals and departures to have a connection?