The line to Beddau: Can it be done?

[Tumbleweed]

So does this mean that there will eventually be two lines between Beddau and Cardiff? One via Pontyclun and the other via Creigiau?

 

[anthony263]

I would like there to be too lines to Cardiff although the Pontyclun service would just be a shuttle between Beddau and Pontyclun due to lack of paths on the mainline.

Of course that line would help reduce some Overcrowding on services on teh other branch which is proposed to be worked by tram-trains running to St Mellons with new stations at Ely Mill/Bridge, Callaghan Square (Will provide interchange with the North-South metro service from Coryton to Cardiff Bay), Rover Way/Newport Road, Rumney Business Park and St Mellons. The stations would be built on on the relief lines with Ely Bridge station be located just where the cityline passes over the mainline from Swansea.

A service interval of 15 minutes is proposed and I think such services would be very popular especially since the lines would serve many important area's of Cardiff such as Callaghan Square and Rover Way

 

[Tumbleweed]

Ah I see, I thought though according to SEWTA there would be enough capacity for at least an hourly service via Pontyclun - running through to Ebbw Vale?

 

[anthony263]

Ah I see, I thought though according to SEWTA there would be enough capacity for at least an hourly service via Pontyclun - running through to Ebbw Vale?

I suspect that would be a service leaving Pontylcun at around 20 minutes past the hour arriving into Cardiff Central at 33 minutes past This path if I am correct will more than likely be taken up by the additional service from Maesteg.

Of course if the WG get borrowing powers maybe we could do as a certain poster on this forum has suggested and order some 377's which could split and attach at Bridgend and Pontyclun.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

So does this mean that there will eventually be two lines between Beddau and Cardiff? One via Pontyclun and the other via Creigiau?

I think that unlikely for the foreseeable future. A direct route via Pontyclun would miss out on some significant catchment areas. There is also the problem of capacity on the SWML and the need to install a new junction at Pontyclun; the line has been severed for some time. Going via Creigiau would allow the old formation to be renovated without interfering with any existing traffic. Only the reinstatement of the junction at Waterhall will require an engineering posession.

 

[anthony263]

I think that unlikely for the foreseeable future. A direct route via Pontyclun would miss out on some significant catchment areas. There is also the problem of capacity on the SWML and the need to install a new junction at Pontyclun; the line has been severed for some time. Going via Creigiau would allow the old formation to be renovated without interfering with any existing traffic. Only the reinstatement of the junction at Waterhall will require an engineering posession.

Could be true and you would have an issue with the level crossing in Pontyclun which would need re-instating however there will be those campaigning against it and the track is in a right state.

As for the rolling stock for the Cardiff Metro proposals I know the plan is to use tram-train technology to keep the costs down as you will be able to use some on street runninng. So perhaps some trams similar to those in Manchester or maybe the rolling stock on the DLR which would run from overhead wiring like the unit which was trialed on the Manchester Metrolink.

If this line is re-opened it would really boost the cityline service although Danescourt would need to be served by another service since the new line joins the cityline close to Fairwater station

 

[Tumbleweed]

I think that unlikely for the foreseeable future. A direct route via Pontyclun would miss out on some significant catchment areas. There is also the problem of capacity on the SWML and the need to install a new junction at Pontyclun; the line has been severed for some time. Going via Creigiau would allow the old formation to be renovated without interfering with any existing traffic. Only the reinstatement of the junction at Waterhall will require an engineering posession.

Yeah I see what you mean. I suppose there would be more operational benefits via Creigiau - for example if the Metro system doesn't take off it could become part of the Valley Lines network, instead of terminating at Cardiff if it went via Pontyclun. I think there would need 3 bridges to be rebuilt from memory, over the A473, the A4119 and the M4, as well as demolition of a row of houses in Fairwater? Please correct me if Im wrong!

 

[anthony263]

Yeah I see what you mean. I suppose there would be more operational benefits via Creigiau - for example if the Metro system doesn't take off it could become part of the Valley Lines network, instead of terminating at Cardiff if it went via Pontyclun. I think there would need 3 bridges to be rebuilt from memory, over the A473, the A4119 and the M4, as well as demolition of a row of houses in Fairwater? Please correct me if Im wrong!

I know there was the issue with the bridge over the M4 I am not sure of the other bridges although with the new By-pass opened a bridge would be neccesary over the A473.

I suppose you might be able to avoid demoishing a row of houses in Fairwater if you use on street running with the use of tram-trains depending on the position of the houses

 

[Gwenllian2001]

I know there was the issue with the bridge over the M4 I am not sure of the other bridges although with the new By-pass opened a bridge would be neccesary over the A473.

I suppose you might be able to avoid demoishing a row of houses in Fairwater if you use on street running with the use of tram-trains depending on the position of the houses

There will undoubtedly be a need for bridge work but I'm not sure of the position at Fairwater. Happily the rest of the rout is unobstructed. It is unclear from reading the report as to whether this might be light or heavy rail. This scheme was first mooted, in a joint study by BR and the Local Authorities, around about 1980. At that time it was definitely heavy rail. We shall see.

 

[anthony263]

There will undoubtedly be a need for bridge work but I'm not sure of the position at Fairwater. Happily the rest of the rout is unobstructed. It is unclear from reading the report as to whether this might be light or heavy rail. This scheme was first mooted, in a joint study by BR and the Local Authorities, around about 1980. At that time it was definitely heavy rail. We shall see.

Hopefully it will be light rail using tram-train technology as what was proposed by the Cardiff Business Partnership with various new stations around Cardiff including at Ely Bridge, Callaghan Square and Rover Way/Newport Road

 

[Tumbleweed]

Heavy or light rail, hopefully it will happen, its long overdue, and would be a welcome alternative to the car.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Hopefully it will be light rail using tram-train technology as what was proposed by the Cardiff Business Partnership with various new stations around Cardiff including at Ely Bridge, Callaghan Square and Rover Way/Newport Road

This appears in the report:

Priority No 1. Beddau - Cardiff, new rail line on disused rail corridor.

and further down the table:

Priority No 5. Caerphilly - Newport, new rail line on disused rail corridor.

Light Rail comes in at No 4:

Cardiff Queen street - Callaghan Square - Cardiff Bay - Cardiff Enterprise Zone - Cardiff Central.

On Page 27:

''The new services and routes would be developed incrementally alongside and following Valley Lines electrification and will build on the benefits of rail electrification. The more major developments - anticipated to deliver substantial benefits - e.g. the Cardiff Bay Area rapid transit system - require significant further technical development and value for money consideration.''

 

[Tumbleweed]

This appears in the report:

Priority No 1. Beddau - Cardiff, new rail line on disused rail corridor.

and further down the table:

Priority No 5. Caerphilly - Newport, new rail line on disused rail corridor.

Light Rail comes in at No 4:

Cardiff Queen street - Callaghan Square - Cardiff Bay - Cardiff Enterprise Zone - Cardiff Central.


On Page 27:

''The new services and routes would be developed incrementally alongside and following Valley Lines electrification and will build on the benefits of rail electrification. The more major developments - anticipated to deliver substantial benefits - e.g. the Cardiff Bay Area rapid transit system - require significant further technical development and value for money consideration.''

Wow, I'd never thought that the Beddau line would be 1st priority! Good news then. And correct me if I'm wrong but it will be heavy rail, If so, that would be even better as it would then easily become an extension of the Valley lines network. Good news about the Caerphilly to Newport line too.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Wow, I'd never thought that the Beddau line would be 1st priority! Good news then. And correct me if I'm wrong but it will be heavy rail, If so, that would be even better as it would then easily become an extension of the Valley lines network. Good news about the Caerphilly to Newport line too.

Bear in mind that these are proposals, albeit based on very thorough research. None of this will happen, if at all, until after 2015.

To sum up, the Beddau line is a very sensible idea because it will serve a growing commuter area around Llantrisant and Talbot Green. In addition, there are plans to build forty thousand new houses in north west Cardiff; the very area that the line will penetrate.

The Caerphilly - Newport line should be an asset and, like the Beddau line, will serve a growing commuter area. (The former mining areas are attractive places to live.) Only about three miles of trackbed will need to be rehabilitated since the line is still in use to Machen Quarry. Another attraction of this line will be the removal of the need to travel via Cardiff for passengers bound for London; The North West and Bristol etc.

Let us hope that both schemes go ahead because they have every chance of being useful additions to the network.
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The proposed service will not touch Pontyclun. (see attachment). It will have stations at Beddau; Llantrisant; Creigiau; Park & Ride at M4 Jc 33 and a station, yet to be named in North West Cardiff.

For M4 Jc 33 read 34. The proposed station at Jc 33 is an extension of the Coryton line.

 

[anthony263]

Let us hope that both schemes go ahead because they have every chance of being useful additions to the network.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


For M4 Jc 33 read 34. The proposed station at Jc 33 is an extension of the Coryton line.

I thought Junction 32 is the extension of the Coryton line with the line passing Junction 33

 

[hilly]

coryton line could be extended to j32 ish

the proposed beddau line would pass the m4 to the east of junction 33

while the south wales main line passes to the west of j34

 

[PHILIPE]

The Caerphilly to Newport line used to split, the Up Line taking one route and the Down another. This meant places like Waterloo or White Hart Halt were served in one direction only.

 

[Tumbleweed]

I think the document said these schemes were post 2015 - Lets hope they come to pass. The infrastructure around Beddau/Llantrisant/Talbot Green can't cope with road traffic now - the new Church Village bypass is slowly but surely grinding to a halt in certain places. Lets hope the Welsh Government mandarins don't go for the cheap option and install 'cycle routes' or new road schemes which have their uses but are not a long term solution.

 

[anthony263]

I think the document said these schemes were post 2015 - Lets hope they come to pass. The infrastructure around Beddau/Llantrisant/Talbot Green can't cope with road traffic now - the new Church Village bypass is slowly but surely grinding to a halt in certain places. Lets hope the Welsh Government mandarins don't go for the cheap option and install 'cycle routes' or new road schemes which have their uses but are not a long term solution.

Most certainly the by-pass has become a victim of its own sucess. Things have become terrible at Talbot Green especially at Rush Hour. It regulary used to take me 15-20 minutes to get from the roundaboout at Junction 34 to the roundabout with the A473 by-pass.

Edwards coaches service 400E Beddau - Cardiff (Greyfriars Road) is always busy throughout the day day with a 20-30 minutely frequency.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Most certainly the by-pass has become a victim of its own sucess. Things have become terrible at Talbot Green especially at Rush Hour. It regulary used to take me 15-20 minutes to get from the roundaboout at Junction 34 to the roundabout with the A473 by-pass

It takes me 15 mins now to get from Tonteg to Nantgarw...doesnt sound too much but just 2 miles. Don't get me started on Talbot Green...

 

[anthony263]

I seriously hope that if the Welsh Government is given borrowing powers that some oney is raised to re-open these lines especially since it would bring major economic benefits to the Cardiff region as well as helping to take a major cut in the amount of traffic.

Plus for us railway enthusiasts its offers us more routes to travel on, although I do hope they extend the Valley Lines day explorer to Newport especially if the Newport - Caerphilly line is re-opened with a Newport - Machen - Caerphilly - Ystrad Mynach - Nelson service

 

[rf_ioliver]

It takes me 15 mins now to get from Tonteg to Nantgarw...doesnt sound too much but just 2 miles. Don't get me started on Talbot Green...

Starts sounding like an attempt to reconstruct the whole LLTVR might be a good idea Would need some interesting works around Tonteg and through the villages...tram train starts looking good?

Ian

 

[Tumbleweed]

Starts sounding like an attempt to reconstruct the whole LLTVR might be a good idea Would need some interesting works around Tonteg and through the villages...tram train starts looking good?

Ian

Anything would be a better alternative than more roads. Tonteg/Church Village deserves better alternatives to road travel.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

The Caerphilly to Newport line used to split, the Up Line taking one route and the Down another. This meant places like Waterloo or White Hart Halt were served in one direction only.

Not quite. It was Fountain Bridge and Waterloo that were served in one direction. White Hart was something of an oddity and only lasted about two years, if my memory serves me correctly. The Up and Down platforms were either side of a level crossing as Pencoed is today.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Starts sounding like an attempt to reconstruct the whole LLTVR might be a good idea Would need some interesting works around Tonteg and through the villages...tram train starts looking good?

Ian

It's a shame that so much railway infrastructure was obliterated by roadworks. As well as Church Village etc. Tonyrefail and the Upper Rhondda Fawr could have benefited from a new link to Cardiff, via Creigiau or Pontyclun. Imagine a Park & Ride at Penygraig, serving the Tonypandy area.

 

[Tumbleweed]

I think theres not much left of the track bed in the Church Village/Tonteg area - certainly isn't west of Church Village which has been well and truly re-developed and currently lies underneath housing estates.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Took a ride on the City Line the other day, just as we passed Fairwater station and the Waterhall junction now lies under a housing estate, I hope those people know about what is being proposed!

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Took a ride on the City Line the other day, just as we passed Fairwater station and the Waterhall junction now lies under a housing estate, I hope those people know about what is being proposed!

They would not be the first to be moved for transort projects. Whole swathes of towns and cities have been removed for road 'improvements'. Think Port Talbot and Aberkenfig. In any case, we're only talking about a small number of properties at Fairwater.

I am aware it will be an upheaval for a few but sometimes the wider community must come first.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Oh definitely, I agree that what benefits most people should come first. I'm sure the people there will get generously compensated, as they should of course.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Heres some more news - nothing that new but more details to be revealed in the Autumn

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/south-east-wales-metro-vision-4417862

 

[anthony263]

Nothing on Sewta's website yet although I hope to read their report