Guards location for working on Southern 377's Vs SET 377's

[Alex-JER/LGW]

I am a regular traveller on Southern 377's between East Croydon & Gatwick Airport & on SET 377's between Tonbridge & Sandwich.

I have observed that nearly always on the Southern 377's the guards spend the time at different sets of doors throughout the train performing the closing procedure,I don't think that I can recall ever seeing a guard in one of the empty drivers cabs.Contrast this with SET 377's & again I have never seen the guard performing the closing procedure from any of the passenger doors-in fact they tend to hide away in the empty often rear drivers cab to close the doors from there. They don't exactly seem to be proactive in moving through the train performing ticket checks either.

Is there a different way of working for SET guards vs their Southern counterparts on the 377's? Or is this simply my experiences?

 

[ChilternHenry]

I don't think that I can recall ever seeing a guard in one of the empty drivers cabs.Contrast this with SET 377's & again I have never seen the guard performing the closing procedure from any of the passenger doors-in fact they tend to hide away in the empty often rear drivers cab to close the doors from there.

If the cab is empty no wonder you haven't seen a guard in one! However if they're hiding in the rear cab, than that can't be empty either. I hope you found this usefull in answering your question

P.S. sorry couldn't resist

 

[TheJRB]

I can't say that I've shared your experience on Southeastern. In almost all of the journeys I've made on 375s the guard has been at one of the doors (moving through the train as the journey progresses) and they've checked my ticket on almost every occasion. Putting my pedant hat on it's 375s that Southeastern use (not 377s even though they're almost exactly the same) and SET (rather than SE) refers to the government run company South Eastern Trains (2003-2006).

 

[tsr]

Southern guards do use rear or (as applicable) middle driving cabs - it seems this is generally during times of exceptional overcrowding. Also, just because a guard is in the passengers' areas of the train doesn't mean they will do a ticket check whenever you see them (they may not have time to do any meaningful checks if the stops are close together or if they are updating themselves on any service disruption, to take two examples). They are always a good thing when publicly visible, though, because it gives a sense of security.

 

[455driver]

I never knew SET had 377s, I thought they had 375s!

 

[Alex-JER/LGW]

Thanks for the clarity-yes I did mean South Eastern 375's vs Southern 377's.

Post was not clear - thank you

 

[ChilternHenry]

I never knew SET had 377s, I thought they had 375s!

Nice to know I'm not the only one with an 'aquired' sense of humor too!

 

[455driver]

375?
377?
They are all the same anyway!

Except the /3s as they are a bit short.

 

[notadriver]

Well there are a few little differences. 377s have DOO cameras and the first class areas have a door partitioning them off from the rest of the train. Also (unless this has changed) the conductors panel in the cab of 377s is not wired up for the conductor to close the doors thus he/she must be in the passenger saloon. In 375s the panels are wired up. But in my experience guards regularly patrol SET 375s unless its late at night.

 

[Eagle]

375?
377?
They are all the same anyway!

I tend to find that 375s are white and blue, whereas 377s are either white and green or blue and pink. :P

 

[ainsworth74]

377s have DOO cameras and the first class areas have a door partitioning them off from the rest of the train.

Apart from the ones that don't...

 

[notadriver]

Apart from the ones that don't...

Anything else you would care to add to my comments about 375s vs 377s ?

 

[pendolino]

Also (unless this has changed) the conductors panel in the cab of 377s is not wired up for the conductor to close the doors thus he/she must be in the passenger saloon. In 375s the panels are wired up.

They are wired up on a 377, but can only be used in the active cab with an EP key on (and you can't have 2 keys on at once as I am sure you are aware). Which seems a bit daft really. There is a keyswitch for the signal bell which uses a T251 so when the train is too rammed for the conductor to get to the saloon panel they can give the driver 10 bells from a non-active cab.

 

[notadriver]

They are wired up on a 377, but can only be used in the active cab with an EP key on (and you can't have 2 keys on at once as I am sure you are aware). Which seems a bit daft really. There is a keyswitch for the signal bell which uses a T251 so when the train is too rammed for the conductor to get to the saloon panel they can give the driver 10 bells from a non-active cab.

Ah right i see. That conductors key in a 375 also livens up the panel so the conductor can close the doors and give the signal bell from a rear or intermediate cab.

 

[ainsworth74]

Anything else you would care to add to my comments about 375s vs 377s ?

Not especially

 

[Class377/5]

Actually SET have 377s. They borrow them off FCC every single day. Including the once a day London Victoria - Ashford International.

 

[notadriver]

Actually SET have 377s. They borrow them off FCC every single day. Including the once a day London Victoria - Ashford International.

If they are FCC's 377s they aren't actually SETs are they?

 

[bronzeonion]

This can't be true? I've seen many 377's dispatched from Shepherds Bush from the rear cab by the guard.

 

[causton]

If they are FCC's 377s they aren't actually SETs are they?

Well they're not FCC's either... they lease them off Southern...
...but then they're not really Southern's either, they're the ROSCO's

 

[pendolino]

This can't be true? I've seen many 377's dispatched from Shepherds Bush from the rear cab by the guard.

10 bells. The guard is not actually closing the doors, he/she is just giving the 1-2 bell code to tell the driver to close the doors. Driver repeats 1-2 back and closes the doors, guard gives 2 when all doors are shut and the train is ready to leave, driver gives 2 back. And off we jolly well go.

3+3+2+2=10.

 

[Pumbaa]

Good posts this morning.

Only thing to add is Southern policy - which I believe is Guards to be in the passenger areas at all times. If the train is too busy, they have to ring control and tell them they're going into the cab. Perhaps Sarahj can confirm either way.

 

[southerner2174]

Good posts this morning.

Only thing to add is Southern policy - which I believe is Guards to be in the passenger areas at all times. If the train is too busy, they have to ring control and tell them they're going into the cab. Perhaps Sarahj can confirm either way.

They tried to get guards to call control before working from the cabs except because everyone was trying to do so during the peak period no one could get through, that was about 4 years ago though, needless to say that instruction was quickly dropped, control weren't interested anyway they normally had a lot better things to deal with especially during disruption, there again you were lucky to get through to them anytime

 

[Safety365]

They are wired up on a 377, [...] There is a keyswitch for the signal bell which uses a T251 so when the train is too rammed for the conductor to get to the saloon panel they can give the driver 10 bells from a non-active cab.

5 bells - 1-2 (Close doors) + 2 (Ready To Start) = 5
driver repeats = 10.
/pedant
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This can't be true? I've seen many 377's dispatched from Shepherds Bush from the rear cab by the guard.

Because they're rammed full.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I tend to find that 375s are white and blue, whereas 377s are either white and green or blue and pink. :P

377s in FCC colours are not blue, they're purple!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

and the first class areas have a door partitioning them off from the rest of the train.

377/1 No glass sliding doors
377/2 No glass sliding doors
377/3 I can't remember
377/4 Yes glass sliding doors
377/5 Yes glass sliding doors
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

 

[edwin_m]

Isn't the main difference the type of coupler fitted?

 

[Tibbs]

Good posts this morning.

Only thing to add is Southern policy - which I believe is Guards to be in the passenger areas at all times. If the train is too busy, they have to ring control and tell them they're going into the cab. Perhaps Sarahj can confirm either way.

Sarahj took her ball and went home.

Source: http://railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1432775&postcount=217

 

[Class377/5]

If they are FCC's 377s they aren't actually SETs are they?

Yes they are. They become sub sub leased to SET for their services.

 

[Mintona]

Isn't the main difference the type of coupler fitted?

I'm fairly sure they both have dellner couplings. The biggest difference is the DOO cameras on 377s.

 

[Galvanize]

Good posts this morning.

Only thing to add is Southern policy - which I believe is Guards to be in the passenger areas at all times. If the train is too busy, they have to ring control and tell them they're going into the cab. Perhaps Sarahj can confirm either way.

If the conductor is working the train from the cab on a 377, they usually let the driver know their gonna be using the 10 bell system. So they'll let them know that the train is busy, and where they expect to return to dispatching from the door panels.

Only time I believe they tell control is if the train is short formed, IE 8 vice 12 or 4 vice 8, and the FC sections have to be declassified.

 

[sarahj]

SarahJ is still here, just watching from the sidelines.

 

[bicbasher]

I've travelled on a 375 between Charing Cross and London Bridge where the guard has worked from the rear carriage using the final set of passenger doors.

I've also noticed that some Southeastern guards on this stretch have sat down in a passenger seat for this final stretch of the journey.