XC Voyager Refurbishment

[Wyrleybart]

Doesn't bode well for the rest of the fleet then, if one has electrical issues, it would be surprising if the rest of the fleet doesn't.

To be fair, these units have been in regular use since 2000-2001 with very little downtime, and in largely original condition. For a UK diesel train that is pretty impressive - even if you are not fond of them.

I believe there are more issues with the voyagers more recently and I credit the Alstom and XC staff with getting the units back to Central Rivers for the repairs and maintenance as well as they do. Just remember that a unit that leaves Longsight, Eastleigh, Laira etc needs to be on a 4 car or 5 car diagram that ends at Central Rivers that night, to achieve an exam or repair.

Guessing that Alstom have stripped 220033 down, examined the components, pored over the existing designs and are now considering how to cost-effectively replaced the tired and obsolete components with new stuff which will last another 20 years.

 

[duffield]

From what I gather, this unit has so many electrical issues it needs a complete rewire as well?

I wonder if this is similar to some of the cases we've read about on here in relation to signalling wires, where a bad batch of wiring meant that the insulation decayed either to goo or dust prematurely? And if so, whether any other units might have wires from the same batch and need complete rewires soon?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder will this electrical fix make the seat reservation displays more reliable? There do often seem to be electrical faults affecting these (and lighting).

 

[class 9]

From what I gather, this unit has so many electrical issues it needs a complete rewire as well?

There's been talk of underside corrosion as well.

 

[Towers]

I must say I’ve noticed more regular instances of very obviously rough running engines of late, although that could be coincidental of course. Still a very impressive fleet reliability-wise, even if not from a visual or comfort viewpoint!

 

[Russel]

To be fair, these units have been in regular use since 2000-2001 with very little downtime, and in largely original condition. For a UK diesel train that is pretty impressive - even if you are not fond of them.

Oh I fully agree, for units that have been hammered every day for over 20 years, they are surprisingly reliable!

I am actually quite fond of them, when you get a on a quiet service, they are quite pleasant.

 

[GoneSouth]

I must say I’ve noticed more regular instances of very obviously rough running engines of late, although that could be coincidental of course. Still a very impressive fleet reliability-wise, even if not from a visual or comfort viewpoint!

More comfortable than any intercity train produced since.

There's been talk of underside corrosion as well.

You’ve got the Voyager haters excited now, hoping they’re basically rusty buckets that need immediate replacement!

 

[sprinterguy]

How do they propose to do this. Are they going to rip up contracts and just ignore that Sunday is treated differently? Have they suddenly appointed new recruits who are fully trained and ready to go and are on contracts that make them work on Sunday? Have they forgotten there’s a lot more disruption coming at weekends with Saturday strikes?

Reducing the Cardiff - Nottingham service to a planned 2-hourly frequency on Sundays seems to be the main change I can see, looking at RTT from mid-December onwards.

 

[GoneSouth]

Reducing the Cardiff - Nottingham service to a planned 2-hourly frequency on Sundays seems to be the main change I can see, looking at RTT from mid-December onwards.

So wrapping service reduction in corporate bs seems about right.

There have been 3 hour gaps before now so I assume these will now end up being 4 hour gaps!

Shameful. They are going backwards when everyone else is improving services.

 

[duffield]

Reducing the Cardiff - Nottingham service to a planned 2-hourly frequency on Sundays seems to be the main change I can see, looking at RTT from mid-December onwards.

That's shocking. I thought this meant they'd be alternating between Nottingham/Cardiff and Nottingham/Birmingham but the entire service has gone to every two hours.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Shameful. They are going backwards when everyone else is improving services.

You're not exactly going to get lots of Sunday volunteers if you persist in treating your staff like minimum wage Amazon skivvies...

 

[Bob85]

That's shocking. I thought this meant they'd be alternating between Nottingham/Cardiff and Nottingham/Birmingham but the entire service has gone to every two hours.

To be expected from CrossCountry, their regional services are worse than their intercity ones in my experience, and that's saying something! Just an awful, awful operator in nearly every regard. Hopefully this will mean more carriages and seats for the remaining services? Although I wouldn't be surprised if not.

 

[Martin_1981]

I must say I’ve noticed more regular instances of very obviously rough running engines of late, although that could be coincidental of course. Still a very impressive fleet reliability-wise, even if not from a visual or comfort viewpoint!

My dad was on the 0611 Derby to Plymouth Voyager from Birmingham to Exeter on Sat 16th Aug (a 5 car 221). The engine beneath the carriage he was travelling in cut out several times en-route and seemed to have died completely at Tiverton Parkway as it crawled out of the station. Still managed to get to Exeter on time though (somehow).

 

[dmsh23]

To be expected from CrossCountry, their regional services are worse than their intercity ones in my experience, and that's saying something! Just an awful, awful operator in nearly every regard. Hopefully this will mean more carriages and seats for the remaining services? Although I wouldn't be surprised if not.

To be expected from CrossCountry, their regional services are worse than their intercity ones in my experience, and that's saying something! Just an awful, awful operator in nearly every regard. Hopefully this will mean more carriages and seats for the remaining services? Although I wouldn't be surprised if not.

I doubt that unless if they’re going to miraculously turn their Turbostars into Voyagers

 

[vicbury]

More comfortable than any intercity train produced since.

Interestingly enough, they are the only UK trains that give me motion sickness. Not badly enough to avoid them, I'd perhaps term it motion unease. I think it's the combination of the soft side to side and up and down swaying you get on them, along with the generally warm interiors. I travel much better with the crashy ride on an IET!

 

[Minilad]

My dad was on the 0611 Derby to Plymouth Voyager from Birmingham to Exeter on Sat 16th Aug (a 5 car 221). The engine beneath the carriage he was travelling in cut out several times en-route and seemed to have died completely at Tiverton Parkway as it crawled out of the station. Still managed to get to Exeter on time though (somehow).

This was almost certainly down to the new software on Voyagers which cuts out certain engines when it's deemed they aren't needed rather than any defect

 

[voyagerdude220]

This was almost certainly down to the new software on Voyagers which cuts out certain engines when it's deemed they aren't needed rather than any defect

Sounds similar to what 185s do with the same engines. Hopefully it doesn't have much affect on performance.

 

[duffield]

I doubt that unless if they’re going to miraculously turn their Turbostars into Voyagers

They run some double unit class 170 services currently (e.g. 3+2) so with this cut to a minimal Sunday service they should have plenty of units to double up every service. The service cut should (in theory) solve the driver shortage, so the only remaining thing that could stop them running all doubles on Sunday would be if they have to have a guard in both units. I know e.g. EMR can run double 170s with one guard, but XC require staff in both units of a double voyager. However, I'm not sure what the requirement is for XC double 170s.

Edit: I've just remembered this is the Voyager refurb thread, so this 170 business is all going well offtopic and I'll stop here.

 

[GoneSouth]

You're not exactly going to get lots of Sunday volunteers if you persist in treating your staff like minimum wage Amazon skivvies...

Agreed. Totally rotten company

 

[Russel]

Reducing the Cardiff - Nottingham service to a planned 2-hourly frequency on Sundays seems to be the main change I can see, looking at RTT from mid-December onwards.

I'd say that is still an optimistic timetable, unfortunately.

This was almost certainly down to the new software on Voyagers which cuts out certain engines when it's deemed they aren't needed rather than any defect

Ah, that explains things, I did Birmingham - Southampton a couple of months ago on a 5 car and the engine kept cutting out.

 

[357]

Still managed to get to Exeter on time though (somehow).

Hopefully it doesn't have much affect on performance.

I drove a 5 car Voyager over 400 miles the other day while only using 4 engines. Kept to time without any issues.

 

[Wyrleybart]

You're not exactly going to get lots of Sunday volunteers if you persist in treating your staff like minimum wage Amazon skivvies...

Haha. That has made me chuckle. "Minimum wage Amazon skivvies" !!!
Yeah right. Not sure where in the salary league table the XC drivers are now but they used to be about No 3 IIRC. No idea how the TM and SC salary rates compare to others though

 

[357]

Haha. That has made me chuckle. "Minimum wage Amazon skivvies" !!!
Yeah right. Not sure where in the salary league table the XC drivers are now but they used to be about No 3 IIRC. No idea how the TM and SC salary rates compare to others though

A good salary for a highly skilled and specialist job doesn't mean they should turn a blind eye to poor treatment.

The Amazon workers don't deserve the treatment they get either btw.

 

[Towers]

More comfortable than any intercity train produced since.

Indeed. They are objectively very good trains, and we should be thankful that XC inherited such a reliable fleet - think how much worse their efforts would have been if they’d ended up with a fleet of something unreliable like 180s, for example!

 

[357]

ended up with a fleet of something unreliable like 180s, for example!

If there were as many 180s as there are Voyagers - many of the issues would have been fixed over 15 years ago.

 

[RailWonderer]

I am actually quite fond of them, when you get a on a quiet service, they are quite pleasant.

I agree, especially the ex-Avanti ones which are far cleaner and were refurbished in 2019 and even have a shop as well.

 

[SuperS16v]

My dad was on the 0611 Derby to Plymouth Voyager from Birmingham to Exeter on Sat 16th Aug (a 5 car 221). The engine beneath the carriage he was travelling in cut out several times en-route and seemed to have died completely at Tiverton Parkway as it crawled out of the station. Still managed to get to Exeter on time though (somehow).

This would be the intelligent engine stop start. IESS. Designed to reduce emissions and save on fuel

 

[Towers]

They won’t have a shop for longer, presumably? Which is rather a shame.

 

[43055]

They won’t have a shop for longer, presumably? Which is rather a shame.

The native Cross Country voyagers already don't have a shop with only the ex Avanti units that still have them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The native Cross Country voyagers already don't have a shop with only the ex Avanti units that still have them.

To be fair the "van area" is probably more use given the woeful amount of luggage space these units have.