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(And, at risk of stating the obvious, not if the inadequate capacity means you can't get a seat in the first place).
On the other hand it does look like these ones have been improved fron previous Fisa Leans in that they don't seem to have such massive "wings" at the top of the headrests. I'm sure they're nice if you're exactly the right height for them but when I was on a 196 I found they just stuck uncomfortably into my shoulders.
That seat particularly lacks understanding of the male anatomy. The niche is only any use if you sit with your knees straight forward. For anatomical reasons it isn't comfortable for a man with large muscular legs to do that.
On the other hand it does look like these ones have been improved fron previous Fisa Leans in that they don't seem to have such massive "wings" at the top of the headrests. I'm sure they're nice if you're exactly the right height for them but when I was on a 196 I found they just stuck uncomfortably into my shoulders.
There are a variety of cushion options for the LEAN. The First Class seat is also the LEAN with a bigger headrest. The Standard one is a cheap option with a smaller headrest, the version in the 810 is more premium and so has a larger one. That said I do find a bit of an issue with the "wings" on the 810 so maybe it is better for some that they didn't.
(The 196 is just a rubbish design throughout to be honest...it *looks* nice but it's by far the worst of the CAFs in my book)
But not a great day to attract media attention anyway with all these :
5 cancellations
8 delays
14 accessibility updates
10 station updates
7 formation updates
6 catering updates
If the new First Class seats are as uncomfortable as I think they look (very), I think it's a shame particularly considering how nice the refurbished ex Avanti First Class seats are in my opinion. There again, even the ex Avanti Standard Class seats were good in my opinion.
It very much is still there on the native XC fleet and I do notice it, but I don't really find it a problem. I was just saying that it wasn't there on the first ex-Avanti 221 I rode on (somehow, as the units apparently have the retention tanks partially inside the bodies due to the tilt equipment or something like that).
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Alstom has unveiled the first refurbished train in CrossCountry’s Voyager fleet, as part of its £60 million contract to deliver a brighter, more comfortable experience for passengers across Great Britain. Revealing the new-look train at Alstom’s historic Litchurch Lane Works in Derby on Tuesday...
www.railpro.co.uk
Photo shows the first refurbished CrossCountry Voyager at Litchurch Lane
Exactly. You found yourself having to take both, just in case you couldn't pay with one. On one occasion, the buffer guy couldn't accept card, so just shut up shop. Very soon, customers bought before they got on, and sales would drop
It very much is still there on the native XC fleet and I do notice it, but I don't really find it a problem. I was just saying that it wasn't there on the first ex-Avanti 221 I rode on (somehow, as the units apparently have the retention tanks partially inside the bodies due to the tilt equipment or something like that).
Not convinced by this. Looks to not have the pattern included in the mock up. A red coach followed by a dark grey coach without that pattern looks wrong in my opinion
A few more photos of the interior courtesy of Nodrog and a video of Alstom / Rail Express:
2 x External images of 220033 in its new XC livery
1 x First Class internal image showing the new seats and colour scheme
1 x Standard Class image showing the new seats and internal colour scheme
1 x Cab image
Thanks for sharing the photos and video. The video in particular gives a decent look at the interior; but I find it odd that none of the photos, nor the video, have managed to show much of the exterior besides one driving vehicle.
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I've attached the actual photos directly (well 8 of the 10 - the 6 interior ones plus the 2 "exterior door closeup" ones), preceded by the "least worst" exterior photo (which is better than what was in the 10-photo set), so that everyone in here can see them.
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That seat particularly lacks understanding of the male anatomy. The niche is only any use if you sit with your knees straight forward. For anatomical reasons it isn't comfortable for a man with large muscular legs to do that.
Teddy bear ears have become Teddy bear elbows!
I understand the containment for the catering trolley is to modify it to make it fit.
How long before those pretty red and blue/green powder coated grab handles are chipped all over and become a finger cut hazard?
Absolutely hideous inside and out Seats look thin, hard and horrible. Imagine 7 hours sitting on those? The external livery looks like it was designed by a 5 year old. That’s my cue to totally avoid XC from now on!
It very much is still there on the native XC fleet and I do notice it, but I don't really find it a problem. I was just saying that it wasn't there on the first ex-Avanti 221 I rode on (somehow, as the units apparently have the retention tanks partially inside the bodies due to the tilt equipment or something like that).
How often do you travel on Voyagers, as I'm wondering if you just got unlucky?
I take them multiple times a week as I have work in Oxford and Reading while living in Manchester, and it's absolutely not an issue anymore when I travel. The last time I smelt it was actually on Pendolinos under Virgin Trains six or seven years ago.
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Yes this is what I was thinking. Much as I famously like Virgin, I have to admit the Pendolinos definitely had a bad toilet smell under them, which they don't under Avanti.
Absolutely hideous inside and out Seats look thin, hard and horrible. Imagine 7 hours sitting on those? The external livery looks like it was designed by a 5 year old. That’s my cue to totally avoid XC from now on!
Guess my boycott of XC continues indefinitely then. At least they are largely avoidable by going via London which is often quicker and cheaper anyway. Only if you want to go to Burton on Trent are you stuck with them, and even then there's (I think) an option of 170 worked services.
Yes, Burton-on Trent is served only by CrossCountry, but by both Voyagers and 170s (there are no "CrossCountry-only" stations served only by Voyagers, only the 7 served only by 170s - Hinckley, Narborough, South Wigston, Willington, Coleshill Parkway, Water Orton and Wilnecote).
Yes this is what I was thinking. Much as I famously like Virgin, I have to admit the Pendolinos definitely had a bad toilet smell under them, which they don't under Avanti.
Back in my XC days in the early 2000s, it wasn't uncommon for passengers on late evening services that had one too many to throw up on the floor outside the toilet if it was occupied or out of use and it's probably the same carpet still in place now, that'll be a lot of what the smell is and probably the same on the Pendolinos before the Avanti refurb, it's got very little to do with the toilet or retention tanks etc.
Back in my XC days in the early 2000s, it wasn't uncommon for passengers on late evening services that had one too many to throw up on the floor outside the toilet if it was occupied or out of use and it's probably the same carpet still in place now, that'll be a lot of what the smell is and probably the same on the Pendolinos before the Avanti refurb, it's got very little to do with the toilet or retention tanks etc.
Agreed, you can’t please everyone, but at least try and make a half decent refurbishment to a train that has to travel such long distances. If I was travelling from Edinburgh to Bristol again I (and no doubt many other travellers) would opt to fly now instead of taking the train as its often cheaper, far quicker and by the look of those new seats (even 1st class looks anything but a premium seat/ambience) far more comfortable. XC have done themselves no favours here…a poor product charged to us the passenger at premium prices. What sort of message does that dreadful livery give to the ordinary, everyday passenger? Unfinished? Haphazard..nothing matches? Inconsistent? I can’t believe someone in XC looked at that and said “Yes..that looks great..lets paint our trains like that!”. The mind boggles? I’m certainly voting with my feet and my wallet from now on and avoiding these awful trains. National Express Coaches and some of the internal airlines will probably see an increase in patronage.
On the Sewage / Toilet smell, although this has been done before, the reason for it is this. The outfall of the toilet pipes run close to the Exhaust. This has in turn caused the pipes to be warmed up by the additional heat causing the smell to be fairly prominent. A fix was sorted several years ago as Virgin West Coast has the fix carried out to its fleet which I presume was then rolled out to all Voyagers. Of course it doesn’t help that a Voyager can be operating for most hours of the day, travelling many many miles with little time to be cleaned or serviced until it reaches a depot or stabling point at the end of the day.
Agreed, you can’t please everyone, but at least try and make a half decent refurbishment to a train that has to travel such long distances. If I was travelling from Edinburgh to Bristol again I (and no doubt many other travellers) would opt to fly now instead of taking the train as its often cheaper, far quicker and by the look of those new seats (even 1st class looks anything but a premium seat/ambience) far more comfortable. XC have done themselves no favours here…a poor product charged to us the passenger at premium prices. What sort of message does that dreadful livery give to the ordinary, everyday passenger? Unfinished? Haphazard..nothing matches? Inconsistent? I can’t believe someone in XC looked at that and said “Yes..that looks great..lets paint our trains like that!”. The mind boggles? I’m certainly voting with my feet and my wallet from now on and avoiding these awful trains. National Express Coaches and some of the internal airlines will probably see an increase in patronage.
I'm as critical of AXC as anyone else, who has been crushed into those steel tubes for hours on end.
But based on those photos the major improvement is the lighting and the white interior. It looks a significant improvement on the current 1970s pub feel of a nicotine brown interior panels with off red seats, allied with the dim fluorescent lighting. The repainted blue colour ceiling panels in the vestibules do look much better than the current ones.
The refurbed vehicles will also have CCTV inside them. A significant improvement on the current position where only the luggage storage area has coverage.
Was a little disappointed not to see LED headlights fitted, hopefully they will get round to replacing the current Halogen headlight and those lens covers that are frequently broken or repaired with tape.
Do we know if there will be any improvements to the WiFi / cellular connectivity? These are currently as good as zero in my experience and an XC journey has an element of involuntary digital-detox to it which often isn't what I want!
I can't speak for the WiFi, but it's my understanding that the mobile phone signal issues will be resolved by no longer using the window film that blocks it out (I'm happy to be corrected on that).
Hate to take away from the party of a refurbished voyager, but i’m pretty sure I saw 220003 operate as a 3 car this evening, attached to another 4 car. Can anyone confirm? I’ve got a pretty “UFO sighting” quality picture of it in P2 at new street, if it will let me transfer it! Could just be an optical illusion of a bend on the track but P2 is pretty arrow like!
If you refer back to the post I quoted, the first image shown is a chaps face and the train (I presume the chap is "Nodrog"), looking along that coach (and zooming in next to the guys face) and it appears the transition to grey starts on the leading vehicle, not at the gangway.
Hate to take away from the party of a refurbished voyager, but i’m pretty sure I saw 220003 operate as a 3 car this evening, attached to another 4 car. Can anyone confirm? I’ve got a pretty “UFO sighting” quality picture of it in P2 at new street, if it will let me transfer it! Could just be an optical illusion of a bend on the track but P2 is pretty arrow like!
It’s not a 3 car - they wouldn’t run a 3 car in service, and that actually detached to form the Plymouth portion of the daily Edinburgh - Plymouth and Cardiff Central train (the other was the temporarily reduced formation 221 which has a damaged coach) - but if it was a 3 car, you’d see maroon before the end door on that furthest carriage in vision. As you can see, it’s entirely silver.
Below the Train Management System screen? It looks like a floppy disk drive but not, with some sort of memory card in it. Can anyone in here tell us exactly what it is, and what its use is?
Also, I see that the maximum speed in km/h is stated as 201kph for 125mph - surely that should be 200kph, or did they just use a converter and say "that looks fine to me"? (see attached image "Nodrog 220 cab crop.jpg")
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Looks like they have finally got rid of the at seat radios or the covers for where they were. A good idea at the time but soon at seat radios became obsolete.
It's still there, but as you've said, not as much as it was.
I noticed its absense when I had my first ride on an ex-Avanti 221 - again, I'm not sure how their refurbishment contractor managed to get rid of it, as the retention tanks supposedly are partially inside the bodies due to the tilt equipment (whether installed or not - even on 220s).
You'd like to think though that Alstom Derby Litchurch Lane, although they're not the actual original manufacturers of Bombardier Bruges (and Wakefield), them being the "same" company (through the merger) would mean that with this opportunity they'd apply some decent fix.
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I've just noticed that in the interior photos, all of the reading lights are on (see attached photos "9.jpg" and "5.jpg"). Did they just turn them all on for the photos, or are they now "permanently"-on lights?
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How often do you travel on Voyagers, as I'm wondering if you just got unlucky?
I take them multiple times a week as I have work in Oxford and Reading while living in Manchester, and it's absolutely not an issue anymore when I travel. The last time I smelt it was actually on Pendolinos under Virgin Trains six or seven years ago.
Yes this is what I was thinking. Much as I famously like Virgin, I have to admit the Pendolinos definitely had a bad toilet smell under them, which they don't under Avanti.
If you refer back to the post I quoted, the first image shown is a chaps face and the train (I presume the chap is "Nodrog"), looking along that coach (and zooming in next to the guys face) and it appears the transition to grey starts on the leading vehicle, not at the gangway.
Below the Train Management System screen? It looks like a floppy disk drive but not, with some sort of memory card in it. Can anyone in here tell us exactly what it is, and what its use is?
Also, I see that the maximum speed in km/h is stated as 201kph for 125mph - surely that should be 200kph, or did they just use a converter and say "that looks fine to me"? (see attached image "Nodrog 220 cab crop.jpg")
125mph is 201kph. It wasn't too long ago that on this very forum people were outraged that the 80x fleet is limited to 200kph and called it "the end of 125mph running"
Something which is conspicuously absent (which I tend to expect in new/redesigned interiors these days): modern LCD displays for live information.
The voyagers do actually manage quite good use of the available space on the scrolling dot matrix displays, but you can be waiting quite a while for a particular piece of information to come up, and there are certain things it can't do that would be useful e.g. show a station departure board on approach to a major interchange.
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