Wrexham, Shropshire & Midlands Railway updates

[KashmireHawker]

Julia Buckley MP told me they had to wait a week before announcing due to legal reasons, which makes it today.

Was thinking that.

Regardless, if a decision has been made, they should get on with it and announce it.

I am too eager to know!

 

[cj_1985]

Unless the DfT overlords are instructing them to change their decision, should they have disagreed with the ORRs initial decision? I wouldn't put it past them.

 

[Zontar]

It's not like they've been short of time to make a decision....

 

[cj_1985]

Maybe it's just me, but I think given that if my team/department was going to be swallowed up/have it's independence stripped away... I would perhaps be inclined to make a decision fully knowing it would go against what my new boss would dictate. IF I was being spiteful that is, and after the bully boy tactics used in previous letters from DfT

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:12 ==

Not suggesting pushing through an application the network couldn't support, but if it could...

 

[Clarence Yard]

0700 tomorrow morning is when it will be announced.

 

[Zontar]

0700 tomorrow morning is when it will be announced.

Random. How do you know just out of interest?

 

[Class15]

Random. How do you know just out of interest?

The user who said that is involved in the industry.

 

[KashmireHawker]

0700 tomorrow morning is when it will be announced.

Thanks very much and as it’s being done before the Stock Markets open, I would not be surprised if this comes along with a bunch of other OAA’s too, with Lumo (First) and Grand Central (Arriva) waiting for decisions.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Lumo Rochdale and Avanti (1 Blackpool return and 1 Chester, iirc) will also feature in the announcement.

 

[KashmireHawker]

Application rejected:

The rail regulator rejected applications from the Wrexham, Shropshire & Midlands Railway Company (WSMR) for four return Wrexham-London Euston services and Lumo’s up to four return Rochdale-Euston services. It also rejected Avanti West Coast’s application for additional Blackpool-Euston services.

ORR’s assessment following detailed and extensive analysis is that the capacity and performance of the southern section of the West Coast Main Line has not materially changed since similar applications were rejected in 2025. An external review commissioned by ORR also supported this conclusion.

Gaps in the current timetable need to provide important space for trains to recover when disruption occurs, minimising delays to passengers. ORR concluded that adding more services into these windows in the timetable for recovery would reduce that resilience, increasing the risk of disruption spreading to other services and affecting more passengers.

ORR has however approved access for Avanti’s weekday 19:29 Chester to Euston service to carry passengers until December 2030. This train already runs as a fully crewed empty service and will continue to do so, so the decision does not add another train to the route but will instead add benefit for passengers.

ORR rejects new West Coast services over capacity constraints and risk of worsening delays for passengers | Office of Rail and Road

Proposals for new train services between London and Wrexham, Rochdale and Blackpool have been rejected by the Office of Rail and Road (ORR) after its assessment found adding more trains to the West Coast Main Line would likely increase delays and cancelled trains for passengers.

www.orr.gov.uk

 

[AlterEgo]

No great surprises then.

 

[Snow1964]

One part that many might find surprising because of perception is (in appendix referring to stakeholder comments)

DfT stated support in principle, subject to the ORR and Network Rail being satisfied that the services can be accommodated without compromising network performance or resilience, and without adversely affecting the rights of other operators.

But this bit of letter seems rather odd, a lot of basis for rejecting seems to be congestion, created by the number of trains already permitted, and way it is worded implies they have previously allowed this congestion, and are prioritising late running services having gaps in timetable over the potential new services.

26. We commissioned external analysis to supplement our own assessment and ensure our capacity and performance conclusions were robust. This analysis identified that using the paths proposed would increase congestion, increasing the number of trains operating at or near the minimum allowable planned separation (headway) without any breaks. This would further reduce recovery time for late-running services and increase the likelihood of disruption, with consequent impacts on passengers and freight.

27. Our assessment identified there is still a significant, pre-existing performance issue caused by general congestion ....

Is it just me, or are they actually saying rejected because others are entitled to run late, rather than having to cancel if they miss their timetable slot

https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2026-10/2026-10-08-orr-wcml-decision-letter.pdf

 

[KashmireHawker]

No great surprises then.

I agree, even if it is immensely disappointing.

The fact in 2026, a whole county can’t have a single direct rail service down to the nation’s capital, should be a source of the most immense shame and absurdity for all those bods sitting in swanky offices in Whitehall.

Let’s see if Avanti coming into public ownership or future timetable reconstructions as suggested in the letter by the ORR makes any difference.

I am sadly not holding my breath…

 

[Harpo]

So, a fourth attempt to connect Shrewsbury with London via a slow stagger through the West Midlands won’t get to prove Einstein’s definition of madness.

Hopefully this decision will focus minds on identifying ways to provide Shrewsbury & Telford with faster, regular ways of reaching London via reliable connections.

 

[Bald Rick]

Is it just me, or are they actually saying rejected because others are entitled to run late, rather than having to cancel if they miss their timetable slot

It’s just you.

 

[Class15]

Surely an extension of a few Birmingham semi fasts a day might work?

 

[Harpo]

Surely an extension of a few Birmingham semi fasts a day might work?

Got a few miles of copper wire laying spare?

 

[dk1]

Oh, that’s that then.

 

[The Planner]

Let’s see if Avanti coming into public ownership or future timetable reconstructions as suggested in the letter by the ORR makes any difference.

I am sadly not holding my breath…

Avanti being in public ownership won't make any difference. No major recasts are due either.

 

[Harpo]

Avanti being in public ownership won't make any difference.

Quite. There seems to be a belief that GBR is the land of milk and honey where all railway dreams come true. DaFT!

 

[A S Leib]

The fact in 2026, a whole county can’t have a single direct rail service down to the nation’s capital, should be a source of the most immense shame and absurdity for all those bods sitting in swanky offices in Whitehall.

As annoying as it may be to be one of two or three English counties without a London service (London services passing Oakham don't currently seem to call there, and the Isle of Wight if counted separately), the entirety of Shropshire has a population not much larger than London service-less Barnsley and Huddersfield combined.

Shropshire may not have Herefordshire's direct London services, but a more frequent Birmingham service and better connections to Crewe feel like fair trade-offs towards London.

 

[cj_1985]

One part that many might find surprising because of perception is (in appendix referring to stakeholder comments)


But this bit of letter seems rather odd, a lot of basis for rejecting seems to be congestion, created by the number of trains already permitted, and way it is worded implies they have previously allowed this congestion, and are prioritising late running services having gaps in timetable over the potential new services.

Is it just me, or are they actually saying rejected because others are entitled to run late, rather than having to cancel if they miss their timetable slot

https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2026-10/2026-10-08-orr-wcml-decision-letter.pdf

I dunno, to an extent it could be read that way

 

[Class15]

Got a few miles of copper wire laying spare?

I rather assumed with 805s…

 

[KashmireHawker]

Oh, that’s that then.

I get that sense in WSMR’s response:

“We are disappointed with the Office of Rail and Road’s decision to reject our application, especially after the effort we’ve made to overcome the concerns raised by statutory consultees over the past two-and-a-half years.

“Improving connectivity is a driver of economic growth and productivity, and WSMR would have unlocked much-needed educational, leisure and work opportunities for communities between North Wales, Midlands and London corridor. WSMR complements plans for Great British Railways by introducing direct connectivity that will attract new passengers to the rail market.

“Since our application was submitted in March 2024, we have received overwhelming backing from local people, businesses, councillors and MPs, who all recognise the urgent need for this improved connectivity. We are very grateful for this support.”

Response to the decision from Office of Rail and Road – 8 October 2026 - WSMR

The Wrexham, Shropshire and Midlands Railway (WSMR) has issued a statement following the Office of Rail and Road (ORR) rejecting its application on 8 October 2026 to run services between North Wales, Shropshire, the Midlands and London: “We are disappointed with the Office of Rail and Road’s...

www.wsmr.co.uk

 

[Harpo]

Shropshire may not have Herefordshire's direct London services, but a more frequent Birmingham service and better connections to Crewe feel like fair trade-offs towards London.

Shropshires got a decent hourly service to the capital.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I rather assumed with 805s…

Avanti actually have the 805s for the route, as the fleet was ordered when Shrewsbury had a through service with 221s.
However, the DfT will have instructed Avanti (during Covid) to cut the Shrewsbury extension off to save money, and that stance hasn't changed.
I wouldn't put it past DfT to reinstate the service once Avanti is gone next year.
It's still often quicker changing at Crewe, anyway (thanks to TfW).

 

[norbitonflyer]

Shropshires got a decent hourly service to the capital.

....of Wales?

 

[Harpo]

....of Wales?

Exactly!

 

[A S Leib]

Shropshires got a decent hourly service to the capital.

Cardiff, Ludlow or Manchester (with Liverpool to come)?

 

[The Planner]

I wouldn't put it past DfT to reinstate the service once Avanti is gone next year.

I very much doubt that.