Why does everybody hate XC?

[ainsworth74]

the system regally fails and reservations are hand written.

My favourite was when I joined a train at Wakefield and it had First Great Western reservation tags!

 

[Eric]

No such problems at all today, although we did have a long six minute stop in Sheffield while control let a late running TPE Cleethorpes and a NR Retford service go before us.

I'm just very grateful that the 16:03 was a HST set because from Sheffield to Leeds it was standing all the way.

I don't know how a four car Voyager would have handled the intense passenger numbers.

 

[mralexn]

No such problems at all today, although we did have a long six minute stop in Sheffield while control let a late running TPE Cleethorpes and a NR Retford service go before us.

I'm just very grateful that the 16:03 was a HST set because from Sheffield to Leeds it was standing all the way.

I don't know how a four car Voyager would have handled the intense passenger numbers.

standing on a 7 car HST, oooh sounds busy, and that amount of people on a voyager,
that takes squeezed in like sardines to a new level

 

[YorkshireBear]

standing on a 7 car HST, oooh sounds busy, and that amount of people on a voyager,
that takes squeezed in like sardines to a new level

yes to the XC level

 

[Eric]

standing on a 7 car HST, oooh sounds busy, and that amount of people on a voyager,
that takes squeezed in like sardines to a new level

I had that experience Sunday gone on a Newcastle -- Leeds XC 4 car Voyager service.

I wouldn't wish those two hours on anyone.

 

[ainsworth74]

yes to the XC level

Levels of overcrowding:

Overcrowded
Crushloaded
Sardines
XC crowding
The London Underground

 

[starrymarkb]

My favourite was when I joined a train at Wakefield and it had First Great Western reservation tags!

It will do, SWT services from Exeter also had FGW tags, FGW will print the labels for XC out at Plymouth/Penzance shortly before boarding

 

[YorkshireBear]

Levels of overcrowding:

Overcrowded
Crushloaded
Sardines
XC crowding
The London Underground

Never experienced overcrowding on LU i tend to keep away cos i dont like the hassle :/

 

[MCR247]

Then you haven't been on the central line!

 

[YorkshireBear]

and to be honest i have no need to go to london....

 

[Geezertronic]

Then you haven't been on the central line!

Or the Northern Line (Bank Branch)!

 

[Justin Smith]

Because their trains are cramped !

 

[ainsworth74]

Because their trains are cramped !

I almost feel like I'm stuck on repeat but once again XC did not order the rolling stock they are using that was DfT and Virgin. XC are just trying to make the best of a bad job, I just don't see how you can blame them for the Voyagers.

 

[furryfeet]

So why dont XC
a) use the HSTs more (from the threads 5 out of 7 are kept in sidings out of use)
b) procure some 2nd hand stock that is lying around in various MOD yards and use that ?
ok there will be some refurbishment costs, but I would have thought that it would be less that leasing new trains, since the old stock is fully depreciated.

Remember that XC knew at the time of bidding what it was going to get and yet has done nothing about it !

 

[MidnightFlyer]

1425 Plymouth-Edinburgh via Leeds XC service was cancelled today at Plymouth. I don't know whether it was a problem with the set or from something further North, but it's cancelled nonetheless.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

EDIT TO ORIGINAL - a member of traincrew was unavailable.

 

[222007]

So why dont XC
a) use the HSTs more (from the threads 5 out of 7 are kept in sidings out of use) !

XC only have 5 HST's my friend i dont no where you got 7 from??

 

[furryfeet]

I stand corrected on the numbers of HSTs !

All my other comments remain, however !

 

[Geezertronic]

b) procure some 2nd hand stock that is lying around in various MOD yards and use that ?
ok there will be some refurbishment costs, but I would have thought that it would be less that leasing new trains, since the old stock is fully depreciated.

You wouldn't just be talking about refurbishment costs. Not knowing what MOD stock you refer to, you'd also have to consider staff training, maintenance and upkeep (which may involve a new depot or hiring somewhere to stable and maintain), and if the stock at the MOD sites is loco hauled, I presume you'd also need to hire in locos and in the absence of a DVT decide how reversals would be done.

After all that, leasing existing stock (if available) may work out cheaper?

 

[tbtc]

I stand corrected on the numbers of HSTs !

All my other comments remain, however !

To answer your other point about why don't they

procure some 2nd hand stock that is lying around in various MOD yards and use that?

One answer (apart from the suitability using 1960s coaches in 2010 and the rotten state of some of them) is the lack of "run around" facilities at many Cross Country stations. Its probably going to be too complicated to run around at Birmingham New Street (where half ofVoyager services reverse) and you may struggle to do it at termini like Manchester Piccadilly.

(problems reversing is one reason why ScotRail have kept their loco-hauled service on the Fife Circle - no need to run round in service)

Hire a second loco, or use a DVT, and you are dragging dead weight around that is taking up platform space.

It might work on a four coach WMSR/ Chiltern rake, but is going to be complicated for longer XC services

 

[Lampshade]

Its probably going to be too complicated to run around at Birmingham New Street (where half ofVoyager services reverse) and you may struggle to do it at termini like Manchester Piccadilly.

Adjacent tracks connect to each other at Piccadilly so running round there is certainly possible.

 

[MCR247]

But that would mean there would be less platform space, and isn't really possible

 

[mumrar]

Places like Piccadilly and New Street have far more services than the layout was intended to cope with, because they've removed the need for loco changes with units. Re-introduce loco changes with the service levels we now have and the network would just grind to delays

 

[Ferret]

Worst thing that ever happened to XC was losing all of those HSTs! Loco hauled (unless it involves DVTs) wouldn't work now on XC, as the facilities to do loco changes no longer exist.

I've had the pleasure of an HST today (a rare honour) - if only there were more of them!

 

[tbtc]

Adjacent tracks connect to each other at Piccadilly so running round there is certainly possible.

...but that still depends on the adjacent platform being empty and being able to drive the loco into the "throat" and reverse back in to the platform.

Not saying its impossible, but could be quite a headache trying to arrange that every half hour
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Worst thing that ever happened to XC was losing all of those HSTs!

In an alternative reality XC would have kept their HSTs, FGW would have had to keep their 180s and the world would be a better place

 

[button_boxer]

So why dont XC
a) use the HSTs more

This has been explained several times - the HSTs are much more expensive for XC to run, both in terms of the track access charges and the different leasing arrangements (AIUI with the HSTs they have to pay for the fuel and other costs separately, whereas with the voyagers it's all included in the leasing charges).

 

[Ferret]

Well, XC will be running 4 Trams per day from the timetable change, so I guess they'll just have to deal with the additional ching in terms of leasing charges. That said, they really are wasted on the circuit that involves deps from Brum at 1312 southbound and 2103 northbound. My personal opinion is that we should scrap the Neville Hill stabling point, use an HST on one of the overcrowded Penzance diagrams, stabling at Long Rock overnight, with another stabling at Laira overnight prior to returning to Craigentinny.

 

[Eric]

This has been explained several times - the HSTs are much more expensive for XC to run, both in terms of the track access charges and the different leasing arrangements (AIUI with the HSTs they have to pay for the fuel and other costs separately, whereas with the voyagers it's all included in the leasing charges).

Says it all really.

£££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

 

[tbtc]

That said, they really are wasted on the circuit that involves deps from Brum at 1312 southbound and 2103 northbound

I see your point, but one of the difficulties of Cross Country is that the units will be doing one busy peak flow somewhere or other. A unit passing through Birmingham off-peak may have been (or later to be) a commuter service from Newcastle/ Bristol/ Reading/ Leeds/ Manchester etc.

Easier for "commuter" railways who can ensure all longer units are scheduled to be in London at half eight in the morning/ half five in the evening (or whatever times are the "peak" ones)

Having commuted daily on the Leeds section, I can assure you it's not just Birmingham which has a big rush hour

 

[Eric]

I see your point, but one of the difficulties of Cross Country is that the units will be doing one busy peak flow somewhere or other. A unit passing through Birmingham off-peak may have been (or later to be) a commuter service from Newcastle/ Bristol/ Reading/ Leeds/ Manchester etc.

Easier for "commuter" railways who can ensure all longer units are scheduled to be in London at half eight in the morning/ half five in the evening (or whatever times are the "peak" ones)

Having commuted daily on the Leeds section, I can assure you it's not just Birmingham which has a big rush hour

Yesterday I would say that more people we're trying to board at Sheffield than New Street, hence the ten minute delay and even then people couldn't board the HST because the platform staff we're saying that it was full and had ordered the conductor to lock all the doors as we waited for the Sheffield -- Retford to clear the signals ahead.

Like I say, heaven help us if it had been a four car Voyager.