Why does everybody hate XC?

[Eric]

Looking at NRES earlier the Plymouth - Glasgow was on time as far as Bristol, delayed half an hour there, something like 86 down by Cheltenham, then stuck behind everything else through Birmingham.

It was scheduled to run Sheffield - York direct and be terminated at Edinburgh (so miss Glasgow).

From what my wife said of the announcements there was a broken freight around Bristol which caused most of the problems. She thought she would be clever by getting a "Reading" service back from Birmingham to Sheffield, but of course it got stuck behind everything else.

Still, credit to XC staff for trying to explain and help people out. You see staff being praised for things like the WMSR restaurant service, but the real test of staff quality if when they are in the deep end (often knowing precious little themselves) - if you can keep your head at a time like that then you are a true professional.

A great summary if I may say so tbtc

 

[tbtc]

A great summary if I may say so tbtc

Cheers. I'm not trying to say any staff on the railways have an "easy" job, but anyone dealing with a packed HST/ Voyager worth of angry/ confused/ delayed passengers who have no idea what time they can expect to arrive in their destination (fighting about ticket reservations because they didn't realise that the five o'clock train they boarded was actually the four o'clock train running an hour late)... that's when you sink or swim, and I'm full of admiration for the staff today and on other days like this.

 

[Eric]

Cheers. I'm not trying to say any staff on the railways have an "easy" job, but anyone dealing with a packed HST/ Voyager worth of angry/ confused/ delayed passengers who have no idea what time they can expect to arrive in their destination (fighting about ticket reservations because they didn't realise that the five o'clock train they boarded was actually the four o'clock train running an hour late)... that's when you sink or swim, and I'm full of admiration for the staff today and on other days like this.

I have to say the chap who was dealing with me at New Street was a credit to XC as he was constantly on the walkie talkie in unison with control and then relaying the information received back to us on the platform.

You should have seen his face when the 16:03 went from being 40 minutes late to 60 minutes .

 

[tbtc]

I have to say the chap who was dealing with me at New Street was a credit to XC as he was constantly on the walkie talkie in unison with control and then relaying the information received back to us on the platform.

You should have seen his face when the 16:03 went from being 40 minutes late to 60 minutes .

That must be a nightmare!

Some passengers expect Guards/ Conductors to know *everything* and be able to predict revised connections/ precise departure times etc straight away. Many do manage this, which is to their credit, but a lot of the time they must be going on scraps of information.

I don't know what salary you get for doing this, but they are great ambassadors for the railways

 

[Eric]

Is any kind person able to tell me what services the XC HST sets will be running tomorrow as I've been handed the short straw and have to return to Birmingham for a meeting (the scene of Tuesday's chaos).

Any help would be great.

 

[YorkshireRider]

I know the 0600 Leeds-Plymouth was HST today and also on Tuesday as well, which i guess must make the 1223 back out of Plymouth. Because it was those 2 days i assume its booked to be HST but could not be 100% sure.

 

[leedstraindude]

Yorkshire rider is correct.

The 0608 Edinburgh - Plymouth is a HST too, which makes the 1523 Plymouth - Leeds going northbound.

The 1308 Edinburgh - Plymouth is booked a HST on Fridays only too.

 

[mumrar]

Is any kind person able to tell me what services the XC HST sets will be running tomorrow as I've been handed the short straw and have to return to Birmingham for a meeting (the scene of Tuesday's chaos).

Any help would be great.

Friday they run on the 08:12, 11:12 and 18:12 departures from New St-Plymouth, the first two have back workings which arrive at New St around 15:57 and 18:57 respectively.

 

[Eric]

Friday they run on the 08:12, 11:12 and 18:12 departures from New St-Plymouth, the first two have back workings which arrive at New St around 15:57 and 18:57 respectively.

I'll be on the 08:12 out of Leeds and will return on the 16:03.

So it looks like at least the trip down will be a HST

 

[YorkshireRider]

Think Mumrar means the 0812 from New St not Leeds Eric, which is the 0600 off Leeds, looks like you are voyger bound

 

[Failed Unit]

Think Mumrar means the 0812 from New St not Leeds Eric, which is the 0600 off Leeds, looks like you are voyger bound

It will be the one an hour later that will be an HST - the 0608 ex Edinburgh will arrive at Leeds at about 0905

 

[Eric]

Think Mumrar means the 0812 from New St not Leeds Eric, which is the 0600 off Leeds, looks like you are voyger bound

indeed.

I just hope that it's not like the journey I endured on Sunday evening when I had to stand from Newcastle to Leeds.
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It will be the one an hour later that will be an HST - the 0608 ex Edinburgh will arrive at Leeds at about 0905

That would be the 09:11 departure which would arrive into New Street at just after 11:00.

 

[RichW1]

Why does everyone hate Cross Country? Let's see: Overcrowded trains of 5 car and 7 car lengths when they should be 9 to 11 cars long, they're slow (timings are simply ridiculous and I sometimes wonder if it might be worth walking!), They use Voyagers for a large part which are horrible and basically most of the lines it runs on need a speed upgrade! Aprt from that it's great!

 

[YorkshireRider]

I'll be on the 08:12 out of Leeds and will return on the 16:03.

So it looks like at least the trip down will be a HST

However good news is the 1603 back is the 1223 from Plymouth so will be HST, but at that time on a Friday even a HST is likely to be full and standing

 

[ainsworth74]

Overcrowded trains of 5 car and 7 car lengths when they should be 9 to 11 cars long, they're slow (timings are simply ridiculous and I sometimes wonder if it might be worth walking!), They use Voyagers for a large part which are horrible and basically most of the lines it runs on need a speed upgrade!

None of which is actually CrossCountry's fault. Increasing linespeeds is the job of DfT and NR, whilst rolling stock was also DfT along with Virgin. CrossCountry are trying to make the best of a bad job.

 

[MCR247]

Why does everyone hate Cross Country? Let's see: Overcrowded trains of 5 car and 7 car lengths when they should be 9 to 11 cars long, they're slow (timings are simply ridiculous and I sometimes wonder if it might be worth walking!), They use Voyagers for a large part which are horrible and basically most of the lines it runs on need a speed upgrade! Aprt from that it's great!

There is nothing wrong with voyagers, apart from the length, and perhaps the many disabled toilets.

 

[sprinterguy]

There is nothing wrong with voyagers

Adopting a pantomime style, oh yes there is!

 

[Failed Unit]

None of which is actually CrossCountry's fault. Increasing linespeeds is the job of DfT and NR, whilst rolling stock was also DfT along with Virgin. CrossCountry are trying to make the best of a bad job.

In many areas the line speeds were increased to 125mph, tilt was even introduced on the Banbury line at great cost. The tilt is never used and the 125mph on sections between Birmingham and Derby never gets used to its full advantage, might as well drive slowly to the next red signal. So linespeeds have been improved, it is a shame the train can't be pathed to take advantage of them (because there are too many trains)

 

[MCR247]

Adopting a pantomime style, oh yes there is!

When there is one thing wrong thing wrong with it, all of a sudden everything is a whole lot worse

 

[ainsworth74]

So linespeeds have been improved, it is a shame the train can't be pathed to take advantage of them (because there are too many trains)

I did not know there was that much theoretical 125mph sections on the XC route, real shame indeed that they can't use it. Thanks for that

 

[sprinterguy]

When there is one thing wrong thing wrong with it, all of a sudden everything is a whole lot worse

I agree that as soon as one bonafide problem rears it's head, it is much easier to find more problems, but I genuinley believe that the problems with Voyagers on XC are manyfold.

To their credit though, I will say that the interiors have weathered well and they are pretty reliable now that they have well and truly bedded in. It doesn't redeem them in my eyes, but it's important to try and find a balance between the positives and the negatives.

 

[Failed Unit]

I did not know there was that much theoretical 125mph sections on the XC route, real shame indeed that they can't use it. Thanks for that

Derby - Birmingham springs to mind as the biggest upgrade, which gets you to Derby quickly so you can sit outside the station waiting for a platform

 

[tbtc]

When there is one thing wrong thing wrong with it, all of a sudden everything is a whole lot worse

I agree.

A seven car Voyager would be a decent train

 

[RichW1]

If only Cross Country could have an HSL from southwest to northeast ey: I'll keep dreaming about that one!! I actually suspect it might happen but not for many decades!
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Why do people like Voyagers? They're technically more advanced than HST's were but come on guys, mark 3's were way more comfortable and had a lot more of spacious feel about them. Voyagers were made with chamfered sides to tilt and on Cross Country they don't seem to and moreover they're noisier than the old stock and a lot more cramped with toilet smells coming through the air con. This is not progress.

 

[sprinterguy]

If only Cross Country could have an HSL from southwest to northeast ey: I'll keep dreaming about that one!! I actually suspect it might happen but not for many decades!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Why do people like Voyagers? They're technically more advanced than HST's were but come on guys, mark 3's were way more comfortable and had a lot more of spacious feel about them. Voyagers were made with chamfered sides to tilt and on Cross Country they don't seem to and moreover they're noisier than the old stock and a lot more cramped with toilet smells coming through the air con. This is not progress.

I agree fully with that. The Voyager is a poor train design, they may not Crosscountry's fault and they are making the best of what they have, but it doesn't make for a pleasant travelling experience.

 

[MCR247]

If they were longer, I'd have no problem with them at all. IMO though, it would have been better if the XC voyagers had been kept with the VT voyagers
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I agree fully with that. The Voyager is a poor train design, they may not Crosscountry's fault and they are making the best of what they have, but it doesn't make for a pleasant travelling experience.

I don't think it is a poor design at all. Just look at meridians, they are brilliant.

 

[Bungle]

Just look at meridians, they are brilliant.

Once again... in what way? If someone asked me, I'd say they were average.

 

[sprinterguy]

I don't think it is a poor design at all. Just look at meridians, they are brilliant.

The Meridians were a development from the experiences learned with the Voyagers when the mistakes had been realised, which is why they are much better trains. You can also add that the Meridiands are a proper length, generally, and they are much better suited to the route they are on as the journey times are so much shorter on the MML compared to what the Voyagers are expected to perform with Crosscountry.

So the length of the Voyagers is a big catalyst for picking out their other faults, but they are nonetheless very poorly designed for the services they are employed on.

 

[tbtc]

The Meridians were a development from the experiences learned with the Voyagers when the mistakes had been realised, which is why they are much better trains. You can also add that the Meridiands are a proper length, generally, and they are much better suited to the route they are on as the journey times are so much shorter on the MML compared to what the Voyagers are expected to perform with Crosscountry.

So the length of the Voyagers is a big catalyst for picking out their other faults, but they are nonetheless very poorly designed for the services they are employed on.

Length is a big thing, as you say. A four car Meridian would be about as bad as a four car Voyager. The additional coaches make a huge difference...

Not sure about the journey times argument though. A lot of XC journeys are two hours or under. The number of passengers actually going from Edinburgh to Plymouth is pretty tiny/.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why does everyone hate Cross Country? Let's see: Overcrowded trains of 5 car and 7 car lengths when they should be 9 to 11 cars long, they're slow (timings are simply ridiculous and I sometimes wonder if it might be worth walking!), They use Voyagers for a large part which are horrible and basically most of the lines it runs on need a speed upgrade! Aprt from that it's great!

Slow?

Give me some examples... given the lines they operate on they are pretty fast from station to station. The reason they may seem "slow" is the amount of recovery time, but the long nature of the routes mean this is essential (being five minutes late in Bristol means getting caught at Birmingham, missing your "slot", getting stuck behind a "stopper", then finding you are half an hour late by Sheffield, stuck behind an all stops on the route to Leeds, an hour late by York... the padding may annoy, but it's very important

 

[Eric]

Length is a big thing, as you say. A four car Meridian would be about as bad as a four car Voyager. The additional coaches make a huge difference...

Not sure about the journey times argument though. A lot of XC journeys are two hours or under. The number of passengers actually going from Edinburgh to Plymouth is pretty tiny/.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Slow?

Give me some examples... given the lines they operate on they are pretty fast from station to station. The reason they may seem "slow" is the amount of recovery time, but the long nature of the routes mean this is essential (being five minutes late in Bristol means getting caught at Birmingham, missing your "slot", getting stuck behind a "stopper", then finding you are half an hour late by Sheffield, stuck behind an all stops on the route to Leeds, an hour late by York... the padding may annoy, but it's very important

Standing non stop for two hours on a overcrowded 4 car Voyager isn't my idea of fun.