Why does everybody hate XC?

[Eric]

What do you propose they do? They're stuck with the rolling stock they've been given by DfT/Virgin.

Double up the sets, if not add an extra carriage or two for Glasgow Central --> Plymouth journeys would be a start.

Expecting people to be packed like sardines for over ten hours is disgraceful.
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Whereas using five car 125mph trains on a route that takes around two hours to do the forty miles from Doncaster to Bradford is...?

I agree 100% with you on that.

I've only been on the GC Bradford to London service twice and on both occasions from Bradford to Doncaster there must have been under 60 people on the train.

 

[222007]

Eric are you going to pay for these extra coaches then? If not how do you propose they get paid for bearing in mind XC do not make a profit????

 

[Eric]

Its not like XC choose to stick 4-car voyagers on just because your travelling. My god if everyone on every train got a seat can you imagine the train lenghs in some parts of the country. come on my friend be realistic at XC we are stuck with the legacy of Virgin and the DFT we just have to work with what we are given.

I do understand XC's predicament, but I just feel like when you have situations like today that something should be done about it.

I did see a lengthened six car 220 going towards Glasgow when in Leeds waiting for the 18:12 to Bradford (which was a 142 You can't beat a Pacer IMO) so I guess it was just luck of the draw.

 

[MCR247]

You mean 5 car 221? XC can't really do anything about it

 

[ainsworth74]

Double up the sets, if not add an extra carriage or two for Glasgow Central --> Plymouth journeys would be a start.

Okay double sets, which services are you going to cut in order to double up the sets, or what maintenance are you going to forgo so you can have more trains in service at one time? Who is going to foot the bill to repair the damage done to the trains as a result of lack of maintenance, and pay compensation when services are delayed/cancelled because their failing?

Where is the money coming from to pay for extra carriages?

 

[Eric]

You mean 5 car 221?

Apologies I could have sworn it was a six car, but then again we had just been told at the last minute that the 18:12 Leeds --> Bradford Interchange service was departing from over the bridge on 12D so cue the mad rush.

 

[222007]

I do understand XC's predicament, but I just feel like when you have situations like today that something should be done about it.

Believe it or not the staff would like longer trains also as it makes our job easier if we can get through

 

[route:oxford]

Ok, this is probably a daft question...

But...

Would a 7 car 170 (with end doors) keep up with timings on an Edinburgh-Southampton via Brum diagram?

 

[MCR247]

No, 170s are 100mph only and have really slow acceleration.

And a 7 car 220 would be fine for XC

 

[tbtc]

I've only been on the GC Bradford to London service twice and on both occasions from Bradford to Doncaster there must have been under 60 people on the train.

The loadings I've seen could comfortably fit onto a 153 (as could the sixty you mention). But instead they have a five coach train on GC whilst XC have standing loads in Yorkshire...
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Ok, this is probably a daft question...

But...

Would a 7 car 170 (with end doors) keep up with timings on an Edinburgh-Southampton via Brum diagram?

Not on the ECML stretches, but I reckon they'd have a chance further south. Is there much XC running at over 100 on the Manchester/ York to Reading/ Bournemouth stretches?
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You really do have an axe to grind over those GC Bradford services don't you

(But none the less, I do agree with you, waste of much need resources)

Rumbled; whatever gave me away?

We have lots of crowded* services around this part of the world. However I could take the "we have to make do with the stock we have and not expect anything bigger/ better" argument if we didn't have blatant wastes like 180s on the Bradford - Doncaster route (I could cycle between the two faster) as well as a few other wastes I've mentioned elsewhere in the UK.

If we had BR we should have had logical stock allocation depending on profitable routes and busy demand. Instead, we have these bizarre allocations where some services run at 25% of seats filled and others have over 100% demand for seats.



(* - I'm careful not to use "overcrowded" willy-nilly)
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a 7 car 220 would be fine for XC

It would, and we'd like these units a lot more if they were longer

 

[YorkshireBear]

it is a puzzle :/ how they are aloud to do that when as you say XC are struggling with capacity and northern and TPE etc etc etc grand central dont struggle with over crowding...

At least XC are putting the HST's back into use in December, i know they can only go with what they got but they had 5 HST sets and only used two

why? cos if there is no good reason that is a disgrace

Are all HST sets in country in use or are any spare, is just what is currently out with XC FGW EC and EMT the whole lot left operational?

 

[Zoe]

At least XC are putting the HST's back into use in December, i know they can only go with what they got but they had 5 HST sets and only used two

why? cos if there is no good reason that is a disgrace

It's quite simple, Arriva are a commercial company and it's cheaper to run Voyagers than HSTs.

 

[LE Greys]

Not on the ECML stretches, but I reckon they'd have a chance further south. Is there much XC running at over 100 on the Manchester/ York to Reading/ Bournemouth stretches?

To the best of my knowledge, it's mostly 90 mph south of Birmingham. The Banbury-Didcot section is supposed to have tilt, however that isn't used any more, so presumably its restricted to 100. North of Birmingham, the section up to Derby is mostly 100-125 non-tilt, and Voyagers on most sections of the WCML can do 110 when non-tilt. I doubt if a Turbostar could keep up, although the Chiltern units should provide a decent comparison.

 

[142094]

More XC HSTs would be nice - if only I had a magic wand...

 

[87031]

If theres 5 sets of HSTs then they should all be used but it seems in the winter they only use 2 why??????! shame if its down to pure running costs but if so they should get the rubbish reputation they deserve.

 

[Class 33]

It will be the same as last winter so it may be worth googling some old threads.

The sets will do:

0611 Leeds-Plymouth, 1225 Plymouth-Glasgow,
0638 Dundee-Plymouth, 1725 Plymouth-Leeds,
0628 Derby-Plymouth, 1125 Plymouth-Dundee,
0610 Edinburgh-Plymouth, 1525 Plymouth-York

From my understanding (I will be corrected if wrong ) -

Thanks again for this info. But what is your source please that these services will definitely be operated by HST's from December? How reliable is this source? Also even if there are booked for HST's, is there a chance that on the odd day now and again they may be operated by Voyagers instead?

The 0610 Edinburgh-Plymouth becomes the 0602 service from the December timetable. Thinking of getting that one from York at 0844 down to Bristol on a Monday in January. But I'd not be too happy if I see a Voyager pulling into the platform for my 3 hour 45 minute journey!

If there is a risk this service could turn out to be a Voyager on the day I travel, it may perhaps be better if I book my tickets to travel back again with East Coast Trains and First Great Western.

 

[MCR247]

XC only use(d) 2 HSTs per day as they are on a wet least and expensive bogie overhauls were coming up.

170s still couldn't keep up with a 220 even too 100 due to their terrible acceleration

 

[Failed Unit]

Thanks again for this info. But what is your source please that these services will definitely be operated by HST's from December? How reliable is this source? Also even if there are booked for HST's, is there a chance that on the odd day now and again they may be operated by Voyagers instead?

The 0610 Edinburgh-Plymouth becomes the 0602 service from the December timetable. Thinking of getting that one from York at 0844 down to Bristol on a Monday in January. But I'd not be too happy if I see a Voyager pulling into the platform for my 3 hour 45 minute journey!

If there is a risk this service could turn out to be a Voyager on the day I travel, it may perhaps be better if I book my tickets to travel back again with East Coast Trains and First Great Western.

I am afraid it is not concrete. Just rail mags and rumours. I have not seen any conflicts or denials. It would make sense as a extra unit is needed for the Southampton services. All sources say the timings will be the same as previously so I guess if small flexes have taken place then these will roughly be the same times. I am afraid if you want to avoid the voyager at all cost don't use Xc. Even if a hst was booked I guess it could be subbed if needed anyway.

 

[tbtc]

Are alternate Doncaster services being diverted via Leeds from December 2010, or is that a future date?

 

[Failed Unit]

Are alternate Doncaster services being diverted via Leeds from December 2010, or is that a future date?

I think that is a Eureka proposal so will be May 2011 if it happens. I know a service will be diverted from Newcastle in the peak to arrive ard 1634 to relieve other services. But I think that is the only one.

 

[tbtc]

I think that is a Eureka proposal so will be May 2011 if it happens. I know a service will be diverted from Newcastle in the peak to arrive ard 1634 to relieve other services. But I think that is the only one.

Cheers.

Having commuted it daily for a while, even one additional train at that time would be a big help to take pressure off the trains just after four/five o'clock

I was wondering whether an additional unit would be needed for this too (as well as for the Glasgow extensions and the Southampton extensions) and how many Voyagers/ HSTs there are to go round...

 

[leedstraindude]

The 1522 NCL - RDG will be retimed to depart NCL at 1506, calling additionally at Leeds (1634) and Wakefield Westgate (1646). It will no longer call at Doncaster.

I would also like to know where the idea of the 0628 from Derby would be a HST from December?
The brief I saw stated it would be the 0632 York to Plymouth that would be HST as is used to be?

 

[Failed Unit]

The 1522 NCL - RDG will be retimed to depart NCL at 1506, calling additionally at Leeds (1634) and Wakefield Westgate (1646). It will no longer call at Doncaster.

I would also like to know where the idea of the 0628 from Derby would be a HST from December?
The brief I saw stated it would be the 0632 York to Plymouth that would be HST as is used to be?

I did give a health warning on the times, because what I had seen was they would stick to the previous HST timings, so if you have seen better gen and it is in fact the 0632 ex York, who am I to disagree, makes more sense with the arrival time into Barnes at about 0900!

 

[Anvil1984]

The 0632 York - Plymouth and associated diagram may be a good shout as it is at present a HST diagram on Mondays only and the unit can come from Neville Hill.

The one from Derby I'm not sure about as theres no where XC can presently stable it over night (they tend to use Craigentinny, Neville Hill and I think Laira)

 

[37402]

I am afraid it is not concrete.

4 HST sets will be in traffic daily from the Dec timetable change, confirmed.
Diagrams as previously, 2 ex NL and 2 ex EC.

 

[YorkshireRider]

The 0600 Leeds-Plymouth was HST today, is this booked? ive never noticed it before

 

[Eric]

Although I've had an absolute shocking time trying to get back home today, I would like to thank XC today for their excellent customer service.

Myself and a work colleague had a meeting this morning in Birmingham and we're booked on the 16:03 coming back to Leeds.

Now as some will know, today the weather has been atrocious and when you add this along with a failed unit north of Birmingham then you can understand why our 16:03 XC (HST ) service was running 90 minutes late.

The staff explained everything and in frequent bursts, you couldn't fault their professionalism (unlike the trains).

We should have arrived into Leeds at 18:06 and not the 19:40, but hey it was all good fun and we even had time to sink a few beers in Leeds before the 21:37 Leeds -- Bradford Interchange service.
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XC only use(d) 2 HSTs per day as they are on a wet least and expensive bogie overhauls were coming up.

170s still couldn't keep up with a 220 even too 100 due to their terrible acceleration

Even though it was late, I'm so glad that we got lucky with one of the two HSTs.

 

[tbtc]

Although I've had an absolute shocking time trying to get back home today, I would like to thank XC today for their excellent customer service.

Myself and a work colleague had a meeting this morning in Birmingham and we're booked on the 16:03 coming back to Leeds.

Now as some will know, today the weather has been atrocious and when you add this along with a failed unit north of Birmingham then you can understand why our 16:03 XC (HST ) service was running 90 minutes late.

The staff explained everything and in frequent bursts, you couldn't fault their professionalism (unlike the trains).

We should have arrived into Leeds at 18:06 and not the 19:40, but hey it was all good fun and we even had time to sink a few beers in Leeds before the 21:37 Leeds -- Bradford Interchange service.
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Even though it was late, I'm so glad that we got lucky with one of the two HSTs.

If it's any consolation, the second HST was similarly late behind you, and was diverted north of Sheffield to go "fast" to York (so you'd have had to get off at Sheffield and jump on a Pacer/Sprinter) - I met my wife off the Voyager that was caught up behind it (the HST and Voyager ran a couple of minutes apart from Birmingham to Sheffield)

 

[Eric]

If it's any consolation, the second HST was similarly late behind you, and was diverted north of Sheffield to go "fast" to York (so you'd have had to get off at Sheffield and jump on a Pacer/Sprinter) - I met my wife off the Voyager that was caught up behind it (the HST and Voyager ran a couple of minutes apart from Birmingham to Sheffield)

We did think about that mate, but thought it wise to stay put.

Do you know what the failed unit was and where it happend?

 

[tbtc]

We did think about that mate, but thought it wise to stay put.

Do you know what the failed unit was and where it happend?

Looking at NRES earlier the Plymouth - Glasgow was on time as far as Bristol, delayed half an hour there, something like 86 down by Cheltenham, then stuck behind everything else through Birmingham.

It was scheduled to run Sheffield - York direct and be terminated at Edinburgh (so miss Glasgow).

From what my wife said of the announcements there was a broken freight around Bristol which caused most of the problems. She thought she would be clever by getting a "Reading" service back from Birmingham to Sheffield, but of course it got stuck behind everything else.

Still, credit to XC staff for trying to explain and help people out. You see staff being praised for things like the WMSR restaurant service, but the real test of staff quality if when they are in the deep end (often knowing precious little themselves) - if you can keep your head at a time like that then you are a true professional.