Why does everybody hate XC?

[Ivo]

Guards are not permitted to issue PFs. Only the RPI (revenue protection, naturally) can issue a PF in this case. I don't believe XC have a PF policy though? I can't find any advertisements of it... (I suppose it would be hard to enforce given that they don't operate any stations.)

 

[Mojo]

I was the only occupant of the 9 seat First Class compartment throughout the journey, yet Standard was full upon arrival at New St. I do find that guards on this route tend to do a rigorous job of checking tickets after each stop, which is good. One thing I did notice is that Nuneaton is now apparently in a Penalty Fares Zone, yet customers boarding there still bought tickets on board. Are XC guards unable to issue fines in a penalty fare zone or do RPIs only have that power?

Unless things have changed very recently, XC don't do penalty fares, meaning that PFs from Nuneaton apply to LM services only (VT also not doing PFs).

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

On the other hand, XC are owned by Arriva. And they couldn't give a damn unless the area is well-populated and they have a clear monopoly. If you think Arriva modernise their fleets everywhere, go to Liverpool - modernisation very much under way (plenty of 10-reg vehicles as well). Then go to my home town, Southend - where just two vehicles were built in this millennium (and then they are second-hand, and running on the route that serves their depot).

Quite wrong there.
Middlesbrough, Stockton & Hartlepool have seen new buses, and we're not exactly well populated - and they definately don't have a monopoly. it's pretty much even between Stagecoach & arriva...

 

[Ivo]

All right, that's one example. Out of how many?

Back home, there are two 04-reg Kentish MPDs running on service 13 to Temple Sutton, serving a walkway to the depot en route. Those aside, the most modern buses are T-reg. There *were* 15 W-reg Tridents, which were new to Southend, but two were destroyed in an arson attack and the remaining 13 were sent to Maidstone/Luton in 2004/5 (at least one, W451 XKX, has since been withdrawn).

 

[route:oxford]

All right, that's one example. Out of how many?

Back home, there are two 04-reg Kentish MPDs running on service 13 to Temple Sutton, serving a walkway to the depot en route. Those aside, the most modern buses are T-reg. There *were* 15 W-reg Tridents, which were new to Southend, but two were destroyed in an arson attack and the remaining 13 were sent to Maidstone/Luton in 2004/5 (at least one, W451 XKX, has since been withdrawn).

"T" Plates are only 11 years old, (unless of course they are the original "T" plates in which case they are 22 years old)

Oxford Route 1 (Stagecoach) & Route 5 (Oxford Bus Co) has with the last few weeks been updated with brand new double-deckers. They do look rather smart. The Stagecoach units are electro-hybrids. You may be lucky and find the oldest Oxford buses end up in your area.

 

[cuccir]

Well I travelled from Oakham to Birmingham Intl via New St on the 06:38 XC service [1]. Very pleasantly surprised to see a 3 car 170 turn up, which seemed to accommodate everybody very well with no standees even at Coleshill Parkway.

Just travelled on this route for the first time with XC and was less impressed. completing a longer distance journey. My XC route was between Peterborough and Cambridge (and back) and have a couple of moans:

* Both trains I used were two car. Both were standing room only, including the one just after 12 noon on a Monday (so hardly a peak time)! My return, a 17:00 from Cam to Peterborough, was even busier. Why only two cars on a route which a. serves a major airport (Stansted), b. makes up a number of commuter flows and c. provides a service between major cities of the West and East Midlands?

* On both occasions, my advance booked seat was one of the two seats on the 'priority seating' row. The carriage was far from fully booked - there were plenty of unreserved seats - so why reserve this seat in particular? On my way out, there was an old couple in the priority seating row, legitimately taking the seats and I was hardly going to boot them out. So, with my luggage, I had to stand for the first part of the journey. Just seems to be a lack of common sense there...

 

[222007]

* Both trains I used were two car. Both were standing room only, including the one just after 12 noon on a Monday (so hardly a peak time)! My return, a 17:00 from Cam to Peterborough, was even busier. Why only two cars on a route

Did either of these services stop at Whittlesey or Manea? if so theres your answer

 

[cuccir]

Nope, it was March and Ely only between Peterborough and Cambridge.

Of course, I realise that the main reason for the overloading might be that whilst two cars are required on certain parts of the route, the length of the journey means that on other stretches two cars are more than adequate. Its more efficient to have a packed train for an hour or so than a train that's largely empty for four hours out of five. This comes back to the inherent contradictions/difficulties in running the cross-country routes

 

[Ivo]

"T" Plates are only 11 years old, (unless of course they are the original "T" plates in which case they are 22 years old) - you mean 32!

Oxford Route 1 (Stagecoach) & Route 5 (Oxford Bus Co) has with the last few weeks been updated with brand new double-deckers. They do look rather smart. The Stagecoach units are electro-hybrids. You may be lucky and find the oldest Oxford buses end up in your area.

You mean like three automatic E-reg Olympians which turned up to replace some of the Tridents? Oxford aren't even owned by Arriva (unless you mean what was the Wycombe subsidiary...), yet still we get their crap! On the other hand though, those S1 buses are neat. I've been on the equivalent route 1 in the Blackwater Valley and route 94 in Gloucestershire, and they are something else.

Oh, and T plates are "only" 11 years old? "Only"? Let me add that a few second hand Tridents have appeared in Hadleigh depot (First) of late from I believe Norwich (the first time in history I believe that Hadleigh have had more deckers than Southend). Registrations? T/V. So at best early 2000. So between Arriva and First (something like 140 vehicles) just two were built in the last ten years. And I thought there was a target average of eight years?

Southend will probably never get a "big bang" of arrivals in either depot (either Hadleigh or Southend). Instead, it'll be a sea - no pun intended - of second hand junk from elsewhere, probably Kent, which gets displaced by new vehicles in their home areas. Accordng to one employee, Southend is the "outcast"; given this is true, maybe I would have a softer view of Arriva if I grew up in Liverpool? Or maybe I can just find £10m from somewhere and buy the company. They've tried to sell at least twice before now!

 

[87031]

13 pages long it says it all about XC! I think the timetable is good but the big problem is the Voyagers, i would rather wait 2 hours for a HST than get on one as they really are awful considering the distance they cover, they simply dont even get near a HST in terms of quality, but the HST is without doubt the mother of any train built in this country. I dont think its gonna make any difference as too who runs the franchise its a poison chalice as long as Voyagers are in operation. Solution well i dont think there is one that wont involve vast amounts of money which the current govt aint gonna give to the Railways at the moment.

 

[Ivo]

True, the Voyagers are partly to blame, but XC don't seem to like HSTs as an occasional replacement! Most of us here would take the chance to loan an HST if it came up, whereas they seem to despise them. And yes - the length of this thread does say a lot. Even if a lot of it was the biased twerp (i.e. me)

 

[mumrar]

XC don't despise them, but they aren't keen on the costs. Various people have tried to analyse the costs of either, without access to all the figures, including myself, but IF it was cheaper to run HSTs, then XC would, because they're tighter than Scrooge currently. One can only assume that with all factors like track access, fuel, maintenance, crews etc into account that they are more expensive.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

So just to sum up overall:

• Voyagers are awful and not fit for their purpose anymore;
• Fares are far too high;
• HSTs were just the best and should never have been replaced;
• Arriva are disliked by some on this Thread;
• Services are not as good?

 

[tbtc]

XC don't seem to like HSTs ... they seem to despise them

Yeah, they hate HSTs so much that they acquired a few HSTs (the franchise had none when Arriva took over), refurbished them, and use them daily. I mean, if anything shows much Arriva hate and despite HSTs its the fact that they introduced them and use them each day!

(seriously, I'd agree with you if you'd said "XC should be encouraged/ forced to use their HSTs more, as it would allow more doubled Voyagers", but you've gone slightly over the top for a change...)

 

[Ivo]

Oopsie! I didn't know that there weren't any under VXC, although it would make sense...!

But the fact that they use them so little does show something. You are too right there; they should be *forced* to use them more to allow more Voyager capacity.

 

[tbtc]

Oopsie! I didn't know that there weren't any under VXC

There were HSTs at first under Virgin, but they withdrew all of them. There was a plan to keep a few as "five car" sets on the proposed (Paddington - ) Swindon - Cheltenham - Birmingham - Crewe - Blackpool service (etc), however this never came about

(Virgin used to run the Swindon - Cheltenham route as service VT0, back in the day)

 

[Zoe]

There were HSTs at first under Virgin, but they withdrew all of them.

They were ordered by the SRA to withdraw them, many were used for Project Rio.

 

[Flywaver]

I can see big problems come December with the introduction of being able to book seat reservations 10mins before the service........ I can see a massive rise with assaults on Guards. Imagine being told to move seats on a 3 hour journey...
A football crowd being told to move for rival fans etc.......
Guess many Drivers will be making overtime waiting for Police assistance.....
:roll:

 

[flymo]

Ah happy days...

Sorry for the quality just a still taken from a video.

 

[fairlie]

I can see big problems come December with the introduction of being able to book seat reservations 10mins before the service........ I can see a massive rise with assaults on Guards. Imagine being told to move seats on a 3 hour journey...
A football crowd being told to move for rival fans etc.......
Guess many Drivers will be making overtime waiting for Police assistance.....
:roll:

Is that 10 minutes before departure from the originating station or 10 minutes before joining at any intermediate station? Surely the latter would simply lead to chaos?

 

[route:oxford]

Is that 10 minutes before departure from the originating station or 10 minutes before joining at any intermediate station? Surely the latter would simply lead to chaos?

It could work in certain circumstances.

Say for example a seat is booked from Oxford to Wolverhampton. 10 minutes prior to the departure from Wolverhampton, the system will update to show a subsequent booking from Wolverhampton to Manchester.

Otherwise the "Gripper" will have to ask the destinations of seated passengers in unreserved seats and update the reservations database using a wireless system as they pass through the train.

 

[fairlie]

It's the one travelling on the Anytime Single to from Oxford to Manchester who's sat down in an unreserved seat that would create the chaos. Does (s)he have to move if it suddenly updates to include a Wolverhampton - Manchester reservation? As you say, the only way to avoid is to have someone asking all the unreserved passengers where they're going and effectively creating reservations for them.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

How do VT handle this situation with their ( admittedly 30 minutes instead of 10 ) similar system which allows reservations up to 30 minutes before local departure while the train is already well on the way?

 

[wibble]

How do VT handle this situation with their ( admittedly 30 minutes instead of 10 ) similar system which allows reservations up to 30 minutes before local departure while the train is already well on the way?

Logically, you would re-use a seat that's already held a seat reservation. e.g. Passenger B reserves their seat 10min before the train arrives at Oxford:

Passenger A is reserved Reading - Oxford
Passenger B is reserved Oxford - Birmingham

This shouldn't cause any problems, assuming Passenger A actually occupies their booked seat to Oxford!!

 

[Geezertronic]

Do they have the ability to transfer the data en-route? And how to they transfer reservation info normally (out of interest)?

 

[Greenback]

Logically, you would re-use a seat that's already held a seat reservation. e.g. Passenger B reserves their seat 10min before the train arrives at Oxford:

Passenger A is reserved Reading - Oxford
Passenger B is reserved Oxford - Birmingham

This shouldn't cause any problems, assuming Passenger A actually occupies their booked seat to Oxford!!

Since many people don;t occupy their reserved seat, this is still going to caus eproblems for people with seasons, or walk up tickets. Currently, you know if you get on at Cheltenham that if a seat is empty and it's reserved from Bristol to York you can sit there all the way to Newcaslte or Edinburgh. From December it sounds like you cna sit there, but you may get turfed out at York!

I think the idea is rubbish, myself!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Logically, you would re-use a seat that's already held a seat reservation. e.g. Passenger B reserves their seat 10min before the train arrives at Oxford:

I have, however, on a couple of occasions seen the "available" indication on a 390 change to "reserved from bla bla bla" in mid journey. So at least on VT they are adding reservations to seats that were unreserved off Euston.

 

[MCR247]

I was on a voyager once from Edinburgh to Derby and it had come from Glasgow or somewhere and we had the worst reserved seat and we were going to move at Berwick where the people who had other seats were getting off so we were ready to move but as soon as the train arrived it said reserved from Berwick to Southampton

 

[222666]

I can see big problems come December with the introduction of being able to book seat reservations 10mins before the service........ I can see a massive rise with assaults on Guards. Imagine being told to move seats on a 3 hour journey...
A football crowd being told to move for rival fans etc.......
Guess many Drivers will be making overtime waiting for Police assistance.....
:roll:

Simple. Seat revs for 1st class only.

Seen enough arguments from people, recently I saw, on XC, an elderly woman complaining at someone who had her seat, to which he replied "well, what do you expect us to do?" & I pointed out that she had actually PAID for that seat, was elderly, & tickets don't entitle you to a seat - seat reservations do . I don't work for the railway it just makes me

I say no reservations in standard for safety reasons, get people settled earlier, & stop the general confusion & aggro. Confusion, because many people don't realise that most seats are only reserved for part of the journey, they just see the tag & assume they can't sit there, period.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

On the topic of seat reservations, the overhead electris ones on Pendo's and Voygers etc are a pain in the a***. Instead of seeing the paper in the seat, and moving on to find another, you gotta stand there for 20 secs, seeing if its reserved, and everyone else takes the free seats . they don't even work half the time anyway.

CAN SOMEONE HELP ME WITH THIS - I was once on the Norwich-Liverpool L St train, and it was full and standing upon departure, I got the final two seats free at the buffer end of Norwich. this woman and her daughter came up to me insisting they had reseved my seats, there was no reservation papers on the seats to prove this, so I asked her for proof, but she said she didn't have to prove it etc, eventually I movced and stood up all the way to Peterborugh, i wasn't in the mood for arguing. Was I in the right or wrong to ask what i did?