Where stands the DUP on railways?

[AlterEgo]

I did say Irish, not to what happens one or other sides of of the border.

Indeed, but the statistics refer only to the Republic, that's all I was saying.

Statistics or not, politics of all colours in NI is quite bent and I'm looking forward to the broadsheets in the UK running some stories on the crap that goes on.

 

[Olaf]

Statistics or not, politics of all colours in NI is quite bent and I'm looking forward to the broadsheets in the UK running some stories on the crap that goes on.

Yes, agreed.

 

[lejog]

Personally i think railways will be about items 44576329820 on the agenda for discussion between the DUP and the Conservatives. I doubt it even enters the discussion.

I don't know how this thread has stretched to so many pages after this post. The parties are negotiating a "confidence and supply" agreement i.e. backing on votes of confidence and the budget and certainly nothing to do with transport policy.

I agree. Its also a devolved issue and they are likely to simply abstain on devolved issues. This would leave the Tories 1 short of majority because SF dont take their seats and the Speaker doesn't vote meaning they would have 315 out of 631. The Lib Dems would broadly vote with Conservatives on transport policy providing a clear majority. Therefore I doubt there will be significant changes in transport policy.

Edit: Tories would have a majority with 318 out of 631 if the DUP abstain on transport. The overall picture is the same for transport.

What about the Scots and Welsh Nationalists? AIUI the Tories still have a small majority of English MPs over Labour, Lib Dems and Greens. In 2015 they introduced laws which partly addressed the West Lothian question and introduced a degree of English votes for English laws.

Plans to introduce "English votes for English laws" for MPs have been voted through in the House of Commons.

There will now be a new stage added to the usual law-making process at Westminster allowing MPs for English constituencies to vote on issues deemed to only affect England.

These MPs would be able to veto the legislation before all MPs from across the United Kingdom voted in the bill's final readings

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34599998

Yes in theory, the Nats could join the English opposition to vote against the government on devolved matters, but if they threatened to do so, the Tories would bring in their Scottish and Welsh MPs and slip the DUP a few quid.

But AFAIK the Nats and DUP don't normally vote on English laws, covering subjects devolved to their administrations.

 

[LLivery]

The service from Belfast to Dublin and return ran for many generations before the EU existed and should be unaffected by Brexit.

I am tired of this dishonest argument. Of course it will be affected. If freedom of movement is scrapped then movement between Northern Ireland and the Republic without a hard border is impossible, unless, NI gets a different immigration policy. Eire is not going to leave the EU or leave freedom of movement, so having your head in the sand will just cause more problems. Enterprise will have to sort something out for this.

 

[berneyarms]

I am tired of this dishonest argument. Of course it will be affected. If freedom of movement is scrapped then movement between Northern Ireland and the Republic without a hard border is impossible, unless, NI gets a different immigration policy. Eire is not going to leave the EU or leave freedom of movement, so having your head in the sand will just cause more problems. Enterprise will have to sort something out for this.

I'm quite sure a political fudge will be found to cope with the Ireland / Northern Ireland and Northern Ireland / GB problem.

There is no way that a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland is going to be re-instated - it simply isn't going to happen.

 

[edwin_m]

I'm quite sure a political fudge will be found to cope with the Ireland / Northern Ireland and Northern Ireland / GB problem.

There is no way that a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland is going to be re-instated - it simply isn't going to happen.

But "taking control" of the borders involves border controls. To prevent unwanted immigrants from entering Great Britain from the Republic requires either a hard border within Ireland, or imposing border-like controls on travel between Northern Ireland and Great Britain. The DUP are dead against the latter because it would be seen as a step towards a united Ireland.

One of the many implications of Brexit that its advocates either didn't think of at the time or kept quiet about, and its opponents largely failed to make people aware of.

 

[berneyarms]

But "taking control" of the borders involves border controls. To prevent unwanted immigrants from entering Great Britain from the Republic requires either a hard border within Ireland, or imposing border-like controls on travel between Northern Ireland and Great Britain. The DUP are dead against the latter because it would be seen as a step towards a united Ireland.

One of the many implications of Brexit that its advocates either didn't think of at the time or kept quiet about, and its opponents largely failed to make people aware of.

All I can tell you is that a hard border on the island of Ireland just will not happen despite whatever the rules "should" be.

It is completely impractical given the daily movements of people across the border for work, education and health care, and with no fewer than 300 crossing points, it is impossible to police without blowing roads up again and I don't genuinely think that is going to happen.

This link is to a BBC News video report that tells the story of one cross-border road that crosses the border no less than 4 times in 6 miles - it gives an indication of how difficult this situation is:
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-northern-ireland-40108264/crossing-the-irish-border

Given the significant loss of life during the "Troubles", no politician with any understanding of that be they here in Ireland, or in NI, GB or indeed the EU is going to revert to a situation that could give rise to terrorism raising its head again. That's what a hard border could do.

A political settlement will be reached - politics in Ireland has a long history of compromises being found to deal with seemingly insoluble situations, and frankly I see this as no different. The Good Friday agreement was a prime example of this. Have no doubt, a political fudge will be found that deals with this.

And yes you're right - the Brexiteers didn't give a damn about Northern Ireland or Ireland when they were campaigning on this, in much the same way as most people and politicians in GB don't care about NI in general. It has left both governments with an unholy mess to sort out, which frankly is something the Irish government could do without right now as they have enough issues to deal with.

The Enterprise will continue to operate normally I would predict - there may well be more ID checks at stations for sure, but they already happen on an intelligence led random basis.

 

[Robertj21a]

I assume that a 'slightly harder' border between NI and the rest of Ireland could be achieved just by many random checks - quite frequent, anywhere, and at all times of the day and night. Why should anyone object if they have nothing to hide.

 

[berneyarms]

I assume that a 'slightly harder' border between NI and the rest of Ireland could be achieved just by many random checks - quite frequent, anywhere, and at all times of the day and night. Why should anyone object if they have nothing to hide.

The danger with that is that you are on the slippery slope towards the situation that was present until the Good Friday Agreement - I suspect that the intelligence led random checks that currently happen will continue, but frequent random checks are just going to get people's backs up and that is not a good thing in that area of the world.

We will have to wait and see what the politicians and diplomats come up with to be honest but I don't see anything that makes the lives of people who cross the border every day any more difficult ult than it currently is being acceptable to the Irish Government or the NI political parties.