Where stands the DUP on railways?

[takno]

I imagine the DUP attitude to railways is something like:

"The Iron Horse is the work of Beelzebub himself! A hideous contraption of noise and sin".

Essentially the same attitude they have to anything more modern than a bamboo carpet-beater.

Bamboo? You can't be properly battering the dust out of anything with that foreign muck. You want good god-fearing steel sir! And I hope you aren't exposing yourself to dangerous luxuries like carpets on the sabbath.

 

[thenorthern]

I would think the DUP may take an interest in HS2 but I wouldn't know for sure.

With English votes for English laws now in place the speaker can decide what things apply to when debates happen such as England & Wales only, Great Britain only or England and Northern Ireland only. As far as I am aware National Rail related things are a Great Britain only issue so the DUP may be excluded for some railway debates.

 

[berneyarms]

I really don't think that the DUP will have any interest in GB legislation whatsoever - they will be concerned about two things only - getting as much money as possible for NI (that may include money to upgrade the Belfast-Newry railway which badly needs it), and getting a deal on Brexit that has minimal cross-border controls and zero controls with the rest of the UK.

 

[Olaf]

Mordac is correct. Apart from a one off renationalisation of a failed concession (not a franchise) the Lib Dems basically support the status quo of transport policy. Its hardly surprising when you consider that they co authored government transport policy 2010-2015 and the Tories have not changed transport policy that much since 2015. The Lib Dems will push for London stopping services to be handed to TfL and tweak the franchise bidding system but that is it. The Tories passed legislation to allow metro regions to regulate buses so will be open to extending that in exchange for support elsewere, same for Lib Dems proposed 16-21 bus pass.

Edit: I think the Tories would be prepared to trade away a third runway at Heathrow too. Its controversial within the Conservatives and they will want to settle transport policy quickly for the rest of the parliament and focus on other matters.

Off topic, but about 70% of MPs will vote for Heathrow expansion, but a number of Conservative MPs with constituencies around Heathrow would vote against it - if it came to a vote. So I think the Third-runway could well be lost so as to postpone the inevitable vote of no confidence until after October 2018 if possible.

 

[Olaf]

The DUP are bent and incompetent (do some reading on their recent litany of scandals) and there is absolutely NO WAY they should be anywhere near that negotiating table.

Until Romania and Bulgaria joined the EU, Irish politics was the third most corrupt in the EU, only coming after Greece and Italy.

 

[Olaf]

They could pass legislation to ring fence slots at Heathrow for the regions.

That would not be practical - Heathrow is privately owned and there would be a loss of revenue with such an arrangement along with the loss of one or more important international connections.

 

[Olaf]

Going back to Roman Republic, they appointed a constitutional Dictator when they got into similar predicaments.

 

[rf_ioliver]

I really don't think that the DUP will have any interest in GB legislation whatsoever - they will be concerned about two things only - getting as much money as possible for NI (that may include money to upgrade the Belfast-Newry railway which badly needs it), and getting a deal on Brexit that has minimal cross-border controls and zero controls with the rest of the UK.

Belfast-Newry ... don't you mean HS2 - the *New* HS2 !!

But seriously, the DUP are going to demand consessions such as funding for NI and some of this is going to spent on transport infrastructure. Of course, there is the small issue of the Heat Recycling Scheme that became an almost literal blackhole in terms of finances (go read about that particular piece of corruption...amazing stuff!!) which might just "go away" if you see what I mean.

Then there's the small problem of the areas that voted Sinn Fein and whether they see anything of NI's extra resources, plus the other minor problem of the Good Friday Agreement...no idea what'll happen there, but I expect that it will be claimed that because the DUP are not in government per se (it isn't a coallition, May will run as a minority government) then the GFA isn't affected.

Now if NI gets money from the magical money tree then I can imagine Conservative MPs in Scotland, Wales and England getting a little antsy about things...

Getting back to railways, I think this is going to be the least of the problems...

I'm going to buy a big bag of popcorn....

t.

Ian

 

[Mordac]

Belfast-Newry ... don't you mean HS2 - the *New* HS2 !!

But seriously, the DUP are going to demand consessions such as funding for NI and some of this is going to spent on transport infrastructure. Of course, there is the small issue of the Heat Recycling Scheme that became an almost literal blackhole in terms of finances (go read about that particular piece of corruption...amazing stuff!!) which might just "go away" if you see what I mean.

Then there's the small problem of the areas that voted Sinn Fein and whether they see anything of NI's extra resources, plus the other minor problem of the Good Friday Agreement...no idea what'll happen there, but I expect that it will be claimed that because the DUP are not in government per se (it isn't a coallition, May will run as a minority government) then the GFA isn't affected.

Now if NI gets money from the magical money tree then I can imagine Conservative MPs in Scotland, Wales and England getting a little antsy about things...

Getting back to railways, I think this is going to be the least of the problems...

I'm going to buy a big bag of popcorn....

t.

Ian

The new HS1 of course being the link to the Irish Sea Rail Link.

 

[thenorthern]

Compared to most parties in Northern Ireland the DUP see the province as in integral part of the United Kingdom and get involved in Great Britain/England only issues more than the other parties in Northern Ireland do.

If a formal coalition does happen I would think that there will be times that the DUP will take an interest in National Rail.

 

[AlterEgo]

Until Romania and Bulgaria joined the EU, Irish politics was the third most corrupt in the EU, only coming after Greece and Italy.

The DUP do not stand candidates in the Republic of Ireland, so I'm not sure you can make the connection with those statistics.

 

[AlterEgo]

Compared to most parties in Northern Ireland the DUP see the province as in integral part of the United Kingdom and get involved in Great Britain/England only issues more than the other parties in Northern Ireland do.

If a formal coalition does happen I would think that there will be times that the DUP will take an interest in National Rail.

Not saying much considering only two political parties won seats in NI, and one of them doesn't take their seats.

The DUP consider themselves and NI as an integral part of the union but also as a Different Place and not at all like Britain; they take pains to refer to NI - constitutionally correctly - as a "province". That's why they can be very intolerant of gays, women, Muslims (but they'd "trust them to go to the shaps"), why they can say eff you to binding political agreements and why they're suckling on the teat of the Orange Order, and Ulster's three primary *banned* loyalist paramilitary groups. The DUP exhibit a herronvolk mentality and are exclusively concerned with their six county province and how much money they can funnel into it (no doubt to the primary benefit of Unionists in the east).

This is a fantastic situation because for once people in England are remembering that NI exists, Googling who the DUP are and rubbing their eyes in disbelief.

The only UK-wide issue the DUP really care about and campaigned on is Brexit, alongside some fundamentalist Presbyterian issues like opposing gay people getting married, etc. The DUP actually got quite priapic about hard Brexit during the campaign and that's what they wanted until the referendum passed and they realised that would be a Dumb Idea.

I think the idea of the DUP having any sort of opinion at all on National Rail beyond maybe SailRail to Belfast is a bit fanciful and naive.

 

[coxxy]

The DUP could think all railways should be ripped up and replaced with water slides but it would make literally no difference to what the Tories plan.

 

[AlterEgo]

The DUP could think all railways should be ripped up and replaced with water slides but it would make literally no difference to what the Tories plan.

Yes, the relationship will be Tories formulating a policy and DUP carrot-and-sticked to support it.

100% guarantee a DUP peerage will come out of it.

 

[Busaholic]

Heard a story on the radio of a moment in John Major's beleaguered government when an 'independent' Northern Irish MP was prevailed upon to drag himself across the Irish Sea to prop the govt up on a vote and promptly abstained! No Irish jokes please!

 

[deltic]

DUP likely demands for railways will be

high speed rail tunnel between Scotland and Northern Ireland
introduction of no-papist carriages
banning of all Republic rolling stock in the North unless it has been built in Britain
electrification of the network using biomass generated electricity
withdrawal of all Sunday services

 

[najaB]

Not saying much considering only two political parties won seats in NI, and one of them doesn't take their seats.

In this election, yes. But both the SDLP and UUP have won seats in past elections.

 

[MarkyT]

. . . withdrawal of all Sunday services

Apart from special 'church' services piloted by dual role driver-ministers. Spartan coaches fitted with hard wooden benches would be used and blood and thunder sermons broadcast relentlessly on the PA throughout the journey. Guards would be assigned to make the collection and eject anyone suspected of being a papist.

 

[deltic]

Apart from special 'church' services piloted by dual role driver-ministers. Spartan coaches fitted with hard wooden benches would be used and blood and thunder sermons broadcast relentlessly on the PA throughout the journey. Guards would be assigned to make the collection and eject anyone suspected of being a papist.

Like it - reminds me of a recent visit to the Middle East where the Friday sermon was being relayed by the call to prayer loud speaker system to the outside world!

 

[kieron]

Not saying much considering only two political parties won seats in NI, and one of them doesn't take their seats.

Two parties and Sylvia Hermon (who I think still considers herself an Ulster Unionist). There will be another 6 parties with seats in the NI Assembly if that sits before the next election.

Incidentally, the DUP's transport policies aren't a mystery. They have a list of proposals here. I suspect none of them directly involves Westminster, though.

 

[najaB]

I suspect none of them directly involves Westminster, though.

I agree, I can't see why any would. The rail-related items on the page you posted are:

• the Belfast Rapid Transit Scheme
• the Belfast Transport Hub which will be a high class gateway for Belfast offering improved access for commuters and also create investment opportunities
• an integrated Bus and Rail ticketing system similar to the Oyster Card

 

[MarkyT]

I agree, I can't see why any would. The rail-related items on the page you posted are:

• the Belfast Rapid Transit Scheme
• the Belfast Transport Hub which will be a high class gateway for Belfast offering improved access for commuters and also create investment opportunities
• an integrated Bus and Rail ticketing system similar to the Oyster Card

It does seem that Northern Ireland has got its act together on transport projects in recent years. Interesting that local manufacturer Wright did not get the contract for the BRT articulated buses. These are coming from Van Hool instead.

 

[Chester1]

http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.ne...nal/1495020157/Manifesto-Final.pdf?1495020157

I thought that public sector bodies was only in the context of Wales and Scotland? Co operatives bidding would be a step forward but it's a alteration to the system not replacing it. I have never heard them talk about a central government controlled body bidding for franchises.

EDIT: The Tories could definitely justify funding the Belfast Hub. It would be built on empty land next to Great Victoria Street and allow the existing site to be developed. Relaying Belfast to the border is long over due and 90mph track would be relatively cheap. Some of the route is still 40mph jointed track causing an absurd journey time of 2 hours 40 minutes to do approximately 100 miles to Dublin.

 

[Olaf]

The DUP do not stand candidates in the Republic of Ireland, so I'm not sure you can make the connection with those statistics.

I did say Irish, not to what happens one or other sides of of the border.

 

[Billy A]

Compared to most parties in Northern Ireland the DUP see the province as in integral part of the United Kingdom and get involved in Great Britain/England only issues more than the other parties in Northern Ireland do.

If a formal coalition does happen I would think that there will be times that the DUP will take an interest in National Rail.

Two thirds of the province, to be specific. Three of the nine counties of Ulster remain resolutely on the opposite side of the border to the DUP.

 

[edwin_m]

EDIT: The Tories could definitely justify funding the Belfast Hub. It would be built on empty land next to Great Victoria Street and allow the existing site to be developed.

There are some details and plans on the link below. Looks like the station is being moved away from the city centre a second time!

http://www.translink.co.uk/Translink-Footer/the-hub/

 

[berneyarms]

I thought that public sector bodies was only in the context of Wales and Scotland? Co operatives bidding would be a step forward but it's a alteration to the system not replacing it. I have never heard them talk about a central government controlled body bidding for franchises.

EDIT: The Tories could definitely justify funding the Belfast Hub. It would be built on empty land next to Great Victoria Street and allow the existing site to be developed. Relaying Belfast to the border is long over due and 90mph track would be relatively cheap. Some of the route is still 40mph jointed track causing an absurd journey time of 2 hours 40 minutes to do approximately 100 miles to Dublin.

Journey times for the 113 miles from Dublin to Belfast are normally 2:10 - not 2:40! It's not THAT bad!

 

[QueensCurve]

It appears that Mrs. May's government is now in an informal partnership with the DUP.
Where does that leave the railways? Does the DUP even have a policy as to the railways.

Plea - please keep this thread on the topic of railways and not wander off into politics generally.

Trains can't be used on a Sunday.

Similar trains must no be coupled together

 

[MarkyT]

There are some details and plans on the link below. Looks like the station is being moved away from the city centre a second time!

http://www.translink.co.uk/Translink-Footer/the-hub/

To be pedantic the original site fronting directly onto Great Victoria Street was closed to passengers completely in the 1970s after the head end complex had been removed and replaced by new development in stages. Then the current station was built new in the 90s with four platform tracks still just penetrating under the historic Durham Street / Sandy Row bridge but cut back from the original bufferstops, and with a covered link to Great Victoria Street via a shopping mall The latest Hub plans show the platform area moved slightly further away from Great Victoria Street admittedly and completely clear of the Durham Street / Sandy Row bridge which looks like it is to be removed, but more importantly doubled in size to eight platforms. The pedestrian circulation between the new station and Great Victoria Street area will be via a number of improved routes and will retain the covered connection to the mall via the colonnaded front of the new complex and one additional low traffic taxi road crossing. The pedestrian routes will pass the new developments in the area occupied by the current bus terminal which is also moved to the other side of Durham Street / Sandy Row, and the office developments concerned should offer some additional traffic potential to rail services too. So yes they are 'truncating the railway' but not by very far and are improving and developing the area between the new site and the centre in a very pedestrian friendly way. On balance a very good project I think, not like some of the BR era schemes in GB where spartan stations were sometimes relocated the wrong side of vast busy road interchanges with only exposed footbridges or threatening subways to connect them with town centres. Lastly, choosing a new brownfield site adjacent to the existing railway improves constructability no end, as the new platform area and much of the track and signalllng can be built and largely completed whilst service continues at the old. Only a short service gap will thence be required to accommodate final throat junction reconfiguration and signalling chanegeover which can then be followed by removal of the existing station 'at leisure'.

 

[Railops]

I really don't think that the DUP will have any interest in GB legislation whatsoever - they will be concerned about two things only - getting as much money as possible for NI (that may include money to upgrade the Belfast-Newry railway which badly needs it), and getting a deal on Brexit that has minimal cross-border controls and zero controls with the rest of the UK.

That's what they should be doing in my opinion.