What made East Coast so popular?

[F Great Eastern]

Given that you haven't remained silent, can we take it you will be repaying some of your compensation!?

I didn't take the huge compensation that I was offered and settled for just the fare being refunded without the strings being attached.

I will never let anyone buy my silence.

 

[ChilternTurbo]

My favourite ECML was undoubtedly GNER and always found them to be excellent, although at the time I was exclusively travelling first class so my perception maybe different from other people. I always thought that the Mallard refurbishment of the 125 and 225 sets was very well executed and that combined with staff smart uniforms, branding and livery gave the impression of a classy operation. In my opinion, National Express managed to undo a lot of the good work achieved by GNER. I thought East Coast was alright but the trains were looking very care worn and often dirty towards the end of their tenure. The VTEC refurbishment was long overdue and most welcome.
I found Virgin East Coast fine although I'm not a fan of the cheap looking exterior vinyls and my experience of the James Martin menu in both first and standard has been very variable. Also the less said about their social media team and their professionalism (or lack thereof, the better…)

 

[tago]

The fact is that the service has deteriorated since Stagecoach took over, from the disastrous website to the regular absence of First Class refreshments, visibly fewer and more hacked-off staff, price hikes and so on.

Not t9 mention the axing of Rewards.

I seem to recall the last days of National Express were pretty grim too.

 

[MG11]

These comments about northern crews being friendlier than London crews - isn't that just a reflection of northerners / Londoners in general?

Bear in mind there are people who were born in the south but now live and work in the north and visa versa. Although these people like to sometimes refer to themselves as 'adopted' northerners and southerners.

 

[MG11]

My favourite ECML was undoubtedly GNER and always found them to be excellent, although at the time I was exclusively travelling first class so my perception maybe different from other people. I always thought that the Mallard refurbishment of the 125 and 225 sets was very well executed and that combined with staff smart uniforms, branding and livery gave the impression of a classy operation. In my opinion, National Express managed to undo a lot of the good work achieved by GNER. I thought East Coast was alright but the trains were looking very care worn and often dirty towards the end of their tenure. The VTEC refurbishment was long overdue and most welcome.
I found Virgin East Coast fine although I'm not a fan of the cheap looking exterior vinyls and my experience of the James Martin menu in both first and standard has been very variable. Also the less said about their social media team and their professionalism (or lack thereof, the better…)

I don't think James Martin has much control over the production of the food, IIRC , it's managed by Eat On The Move or Food On The Move or some other similarly named company. So, it has already passed through two companies (including Rail Gourmet) by the time it makes it on board.

 

[al78]

Don't get me wrong, you may have a right to expect good standards, but you don't have a right to receive them - two very different things.
I might have a right to expect zero delays on the way home from work in the car, but that right is NEVER given to me. The roads are there as a public service to me, and I have never felt I get value for money when paying the various taxes I pay.


You can choose not to watch that TV station, or choose not to eat there because of the service. It's wild, and as I say unpractical for the majority but you can't ignore the fact that people would rather work in London and have a mediocre train company get them there, than find a job either working from home, self-employed or a job nearer to where they live. That's the choice they have made.


As I say, don't get me wrong, I'm not being challenging for the sake of it, but here's a story:
I was at a course where a senior manager from the GEML was taking the lecture. We were discussing brands and logos and what they mean. IE, you'd expect Bentley to be better in terms in nearly everything than Vauxhall.
I brought up about ebay and how when things are okay, they'r eokay, but when things go wrong, ebay are terrible. The senoir manager asked why I continued to use the site, and I replied because of the reach of people (from a seller perspective). They replied that I still had a choice whether I used their services or not.
That really hit me. I do choose to use their services, but there are other (less attractive in some ways) places to sell and buy. But the fact remains - it's still a choice I am making, because it's too much hassle to use other sites.
This then leads to the hassle factor. It's 3/10 hassle to sell on ebay. It has a large customer base but with large risk of fraud too. But it'll be more hassle to sell elsewhere when it comes down to potential customer numbers.

It always makes me laugh that people seem to loose their rag when they're delayed on trains. I am routinely delayed on the road but just accept it. "But I've paid for a ticket!" I hear you say? Yes, I have paid for petrol that I am wasting going slowly because of an accident. But people just accept it as part of life.

There is no right to zero delays on the road, a car journey is not a scheduled timetabled journey supplied by third party and there is no contract. You can't get compensation for major delays on the road, you can for major delays on the train. It is not even remotely comparable. There is an absolute right to use the road without other people causing you harm. Other road users have a legal obligation not to cause harm to you. If someone carelessly crashes into you putting you in a hospital for a month you can get compensation via the legal system, and the perpetrator will be whacked with a fine, higher insurance costs, and possibly penalty points on their license. Now there is always a risk when using the road that someone will be careless with a ton of machinery, however it wouldn't be an acceptable attitude to partially blame the victim just because they chose to use the road.

There is no absolute right to zero delays on the train, but that doesn't stop it being inconvenient/undesirable, or that it would be best if it didn't happen.

Finally, it isn't always about legal rights. Having the right to do something doesn't make it right to do it. Not legally having to do something doesn't mean it is fine not to do it, depending on the context. Problem is, some people seem to think legalities are a substitute for morals and ethics, usually those who can't be bothered.

 

[Envy123]

I wouldn't wish National Express back having had to endure their crap on the GEML for years to the point that it stopped me even bothering to use the train as it was more stress than it was worth and the fact that stations went years without even being cleaned and when I was on NXEC it looks like it was run to the minimum of budgets, the state of the uniform was a joke as well - so thin it could be seen through.

Fully agree with you on this. I remember my worst rail journey being Seven Sisters to Edmonton Green on National Express East Anglia. The trains were dirty, the stations looked bleak and dull and generally, it was a miserable experience. I would have preferred to take a TfL bus for that leg, if there wasn't the issue of time...

Now with LO, the stations still look a little bleak and dull, but at least it's all clean now. Mostly.

 

[96tommy]

Going from personal experiences of using the line, usually twice weekly between London and Doncaster/Leeds/York, is that Virgin Trains East Coast are worse than National Express. Something I never thought would be possible but well done Virgin, you've surprised me at how poor you can run a service.

What have Virgin Trains East Coast done well since they started running the service? It's hard to think of anything to be honest. They've created possibly the worst train booking website known to man. They've put into place the most complicated ticket machines anybody has ever seen which are nigh on impossible to use. They're planning on creating "customer zones".... what is wrong with the good old fashioned ticket office? They've scrapped the very popular EC Rewards, the list is endless. They have put leather seats in though and seem to think by saying everything is "amazing", "fabulous" etc means everything is going to be fixed. They keep coming out with the "Azumas arriving soon" line, I can't see new stock fixing the problem. Prices are at an all time high, even booking in advance it is very rare you ever find a VTEC train cheaper than a Grand Central or Hull Trains service. The social media team are extremely unhelpful, often giving out false information and the same lines repaeated mentioned earlier.

Looking back on the past operators, GNER was classy, the Mallard refurbishment was in my opinion one of, if not, the most successful train refurbishment seen in this country. National Express was obviously a bit of a downgrade but I never had any problems with them. East Coast however have been the best by a country mile of the post-GNER operators. The rewards scheme was superb and staff were very friendly.

Nowadays I find myself travelling mostly on Grand Central or Hull Trains. Staff are always very friendly, advance fares are a lot cheaper. I've yet to have to claim for delay repay when travelling on Grand Central or Hull Trains, whereas I find myself doing so in probably 1/3 of VTEC services I travel on. Obviously, the delays are not VTEC's fault in the main the service they provide during these delays to the customers doesn't seem as half as good to the passenger. Passengers are seen by them as Customers.

A 7 hour delay (standing at Grantham for 280 minutes) of that, in the middle of the night with no information about what was going on was terrible. Despite the time of day, I'm sure East Coast, NXEC and GNER would have been more helpful to the customers. I've also found not necessary on-board staff but station staff to be a lot more ruder now under VTEC. Especially at Kings Cross.

 

[Segedunum]

I always liked travelling with East Coast and never struggled to get a decent advance fare to London with them. Only issue was that Newcastle station staff were often astonishingly rude and pretended that many tickets simply didn't exist. At least under VTEC, they seem to be willing to issue anything and the worst staff have been weeded out or retrained.

At York however, they're unbelievably unhelpful, and often plain rude. Customer service centre at VTEC have recently been absolutely disgraceful and downright arrogant. Fares have rocketed and I've been priced off of their services.

I liked East Coast generally because I could afford them and they didn't hide behind naff marketing.

 

[ChilternTurbo]

I don't think James Martin has much control over the production of the food, IIRC , it's managed by Eat On The Move or Food On The Move or some other similarly named company. So, it has already passed through two companies (including Rail Gourmet) by the time it makes it on board.

True, but if I was a high profile chef and was going to endorse a product with my name, I'd want it to be of a high standard. The James Martin sausage roll I was served like roadkill wrapped in carpet underlay. A shame as I had some excellent meals back in the days of GNER...

 

[sheff1]

Going from personal experiences of using the line, usually twice weekly between London and Doncaster/Leeds/York, is that Virgin Trains East Coast are worse than National Express. Something I never thought would be possible but well done Virgin, you've surprised me at how poor you can run a service.

Having suffered "The Virgin Experience" with Cross Country, it doesn't surprise me at all.

GNER, National Express & East Coast all had a few faults of their own, to a greater or lesser degree, but each one was my carrier of choice when travelling from S Yorkshire to Edinburgh and beyond. Once the Awesome Ones took over, I very quickly transferred my custom to XC.

Additionally, VTEC's email is blocked to prevent receipt of the unremitting spam which followed my misguided decision to book tickets with them at the outset (having previously used the excellent EC site for all my rail bookings)