What made East Coast so popular?

[thenorthern]

East Coast Rewards made them popular, I think as well being a state owned operator made them popular.

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

I think GNER we're probably my favourite operator on the line back when I was regularly rattling from Edinburgh to Durham. Pricing was decent and I think I just liked the faux heritage stuff - certainly the best livery the 225s have had since the Swallow days and the staff always seemed pleasant.

The less said about the coke can vinyls the rolling stock is currently wearing the better.

EC were certainly cheerier staff-wise then they were under NXEC and generally seemed to have a slightly better grasp of what was going on when things went wrong; under NXEC even if they wanted to help they never seemed to have information as I recall.

The Virgin staff still seem pretty friendly, I just have a really strong dislike for the brand. The trains look cheap, the smart-alec 'casual' announcements and such are incredibly irritating and the website, as mentioned by others, is irritatingly prone to cock up.

Staff are still generally alright mind. Helpful (for the most part).

As for why the line is generally popular, well, the trains are much more pleasant to be on (thank you Mallard) than the plasticky, cramped Pendos, and pretty much everyone on the train seems to be half-cut, be it grannies with cans of G&T, hen parties on fizz or lads having as many cans as they can fit into the running time. That probably doesn't hurt...

 

[joncombe]

Price is the main factor for me. I find the cheaper Advance tickets are more or less impossible to get hold of now except on the Leeds route, it used to be easy with East Coast. I used to use East Coast to travel to Scotland a lot. Although it takes a little longer door-to-door for me to go by train than flying I preferred it. But I've not done the train journey for a couple of years it is now always cheaper to fly. The loss of the East Coast Rewards didn't help either. I mostly only use them now on the Leeds route.

It's not just price though, more or less every aspect of the service has got worse. The catering has certainly got worse, I had one of those new James Martin Bacon baps once, it was horrible (and catering seems now much more likely to be unavailable in standard due to "staff shortage"). Their new website is much worse and often doesn't work at all. I often seem to find if I've booked an airline seat I actually end up on a table seat too. Reliability seems to have taken a nose dive. Staff are not good in my experience either (though I also agree the northern-based crews are much better). They are very poor at handling disruption. Also find it rather grating how they constantly email you about how "awesome" they are (they're really not!).

The customer service was never great under East Coast, but they seemed to have made that worse too now. It basically seems to be now, send a voucher, a cut and paste response about how they are sorry your journey was not "awesome" and another paragraph vaguely related to a single keyword scan of your correspondence (ignoring anything else) and hoping you will go away.

 

[MG11]

The very nature of East Coast made it a success. It's a relatively straight route, which means fast journeys, made even faster with electric acceleration. Areas like Doncaster, Newcastle, York & Peterborough have very frequent services to London, it can be like waiting for a bus at Peak times. Unlike the MML, the ECML is host to some of the more well visited cities as well, Newcastle, Edinburgh, Leeds and York has many visitors, despite its modest size.

The Virgin brand also plays a big part in the perception of the company. People hear about Richard Branson and his success and assume that Virgin Trains is a reliable, successful company. There's also a kind of intrigue amongst general passengers to travel on one of the world's richest men's trains.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I really hope that the bull**** branding and advertising coming from VTEC represents "Peak Wackaging", and companies across the country will stop talking to me like they're my mate in the pub.

If I've been awake for 20 hours and need to relieve myself in the rattly cramped loo of your train, I don't want a mirror right in my face while I'm dropping anchor... and I definitely don't want that mirror to have a sticker on it telling me to "Arrive Awesome!"

 

[westv]

East Coast Rewards made them popular, I think as well being a state owned operator made them popular.

We really need someone to champion the return of Rewards. To ""save them" so to speak. Cometh the hour cometh the man - or woman.

 

[Master29]

I used them three times and I found staff to be arrogant, uncaring for passengers and had two of my worst ever train experiences on there so each to their own. It's the only company I've made a written complaint to about a train journey - I sensed an air of feeling superior from some staff because they were state owned.

Their complaints team didn't do much either other than resort to passenger blaming and passing the buck until I mentioned the word 'media' and they soon changed tack which indicates that they were very PR savvy and didn't want any bad news ending in the media - they offered me ridiculous amounts of things in order to keep me quiet.

Why cite being state owned as a reason for rudeness? Not a biased opinion in any way is it.

 

[johntea]

East Coast / VTEC lost my custom years back, they did nothing wrong as such in terms of service in general just the price crept up and up - when GC can offer me a Pontefract to London advance for £8-£10 they win! (Just a shame about the early departures back although sure I read somewhere they have slightly later services back now)

Does Megabus still do rail tickets now and again? Remember getting a London to Sheffield on EMT for about a tenner a few years back after returning from my holiday

 

[markindurham]

EC were OK - although as we all should be aware, they were very much a 'holding company', so there was no real drive for improvements. People do forget that. At least they arrested the decline that started when bus company #1 - NatEx - got their sticky mitts on what had been a well-run and innovative operation by GNER and started taking an axe to the services offered...

Now of course we have bus company #2 - Stagecoach - along with Virgin, who have, as others have said, put prices up and removed many good deals, as well as removing the 'Rewards' scheme. I try to avoid using their services as much as possible now - I'd even suffer a Voyager than pay money to Branson and Souter if the option is there. I do Durham - York regularly; TPE usually wins on price there too.

Can't say I'm looking forward to these new Azumas either. Hey ho!

 

[yorksrob]

I think Mr Yorksrob might actually have been commenting on his home broadband service!

I was indeed - within the context of the Virgin brand (so keeping on topic).

 

[whhistle]

Everything is relative though.
Nobody forces anyone to use the trains. You can always drive to work/leisure. Don't drive? I'm sure there are buses you could catch.
Yes, it might not be practical, but it's still a choice you make to work where you do and use the public transprt you do.

 

[yorksrob]

Everything is relative though.
Nobody forces anyone to use the trains. You can always drive to work/leisure. Don't drive? I'm sure there are buses you could catch.
Yes, it might not be practical, but it's still a choice you make to work where you do and use the public transprt you do.

I tried catching a coach down to London once. It was very long and uncomfortable. The train is the prime form of public transport for IC length journeys within England, so we have every right to expect good standards in terms of value for money and quality from this important public service.

 

[al78]

Everything is relative though.
Nobody forces anyone to use the trains. You can always drive to work/leisure. Don't drive? I'm sure there are buses you could catch.
Yes, it might not be practical, but it's still a choice you make to work where you do and use the public transprt you do.

I doubt it is practically possible for EVERYBODY to set their lives up to avoid using trains. There isn't enough affordable housing in London for starters, there is not enough road and parking space for everyone to drive in, and someone has to do the jobs there.

In any case, choosing to make a journey by train doesn't mean one should just take any crapness that comes your way. Watching television and eating out is a choice, should someone just put up with poor service?

 

[whhistle]

The train is the prime form of public transport for IC length journeys within England, so we have every right to expect good standards in terms of value for money and quality from this important public service.

Don't get me wrong, you may have a right to expect good standards, but you don't have a right to receive them - two very different things.
I might have a right to expect zero delays on the way home from work in the car, but that right is NEVER given to me. The roads are there as a public service to me, and I have never felt I get value for money when paying the various taxes I pay.

In any case, choosing to make a journey by train doesn't mean one should just take any crapness that comes your way. Watching television and eating out is a choice, should someone just put up with poor service?

I agree competely.

But not everyone will care if they're delayed or have much crapness that comes with the commute.

You can choose not to watch that TV station, or choose not to eat there because of the service. It's wild, and as I say unpractical for the majority but you can't ignore the fact that people would rather work in London and have a mediocre train company get them there, than find a job either working from home, self-employed or a job nearer to where they live. That's the choice they have made.


As I say, don't get me wrong, I'm not being challenging for the sake of it, but here's a story:
I was at a course where a senior manager from the GEML was taking the lecture. We were discussing brands and logos and what they mean. IE, you'd expect Bentley to be better in terms in nearly everything than Vauxhall.
I brought up about ebay and how when things are okay, they'r eokay, but when things go wrong, ebay are terrible. The senoir manager asked why I continued to use the site, and I replied because of the reach of people (from a seller perspective). They replied that I still had a choice whether I used their services or not.
That really hit me. I do choose to use their services, but there are other (less attractive in some ways) places to sell and buy. But the fact remains - it's still a choice I am making, because it's too much hassle to use other sites.
This then leads to the hassle factor. It's 3/10 hassle to sell on ebay. It has a large customer base but with large risk of fraud too. But it'll be more hassle to sell elsewhere when it comes down to potential customer numbers.

It always makes me laugh that people seem to loose their rag when they're delayed on trains. I am routinely delayed on the road but just accept it. "But I've paid for a ticket!" I hear you say? Yes, I have paid for petrol that I am wasting going slowly because of an accident. But people just accept it as part of life.

 

[cuccir]

To be honest, I think we're at risk of exaggerating - for passengers in Standard Class - the differences in the TOCs that have run the line. I travel in First much less frequently but can see how, as you're receiving more of a 'service', the differences would be amplified.

In most cases, the negatives of different TOCs have been at least partially outweighed by their positives. Virgin have cut back on the cheaper Advances, their branding is annoying, and I'm concerned about their plans for ticket offices. However I'm happy to see the barriers removed from some of their stations, and their new services are welcomed. East Coast were better - EC Rewards was one of the best customer rewards schemes I've encountered - but it'd be wrong to say that any of the differences were much more than tinkering around the edges.

 

[Mojo]

The same trains, on the same infrastructure, running to the same timetable, charging the same fares, to the same stations and operated by the same staff, yet vastly higher satisfaction scores.

It wasn't the same timetable though, in May 2011 East Coast launched the "Eureka" timetable which brought about a clockface timetable (several years after other Tocs did the same) and a more consistent stopping pattern and journey time.

 

[xotGD]

These comments about northern crews being friendlier than London crews - isn't that just a reflection of northerners / Londoners in general?

 

[Bletchleyite]

These comments about northern crews being friendlier than London crews - isn't that just a reflection of northerners / Londoners in general?

Probably, yes. I find most Northern Rail traincrew a bit friendlier than those down South - and you can hardly credit the appalling management of that company with that, it's just the different prevailing attitude. When I first moved down South I found it quite cold, though I'm now used to it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

EC Rewards was one of the best customer rewards schemes I've encountered

Personally I'd rather bin reward schemes and the likes and just make tickets better value.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think GNER we're probably my favourite operator on the line back when I was regularly rattling from Edinburgh to Durham. Pricing was decent and I think I just liked the faux heritage stuff - certainly the best livery the 225s have had since the Swallow days and the staff always seemed pleasant.

My (limited) experience of GNER, and that I heard recounted a few times, was that they treated you very well in First Class but like muck on the bottom of their shoes in Standard.

 

[takno]

These comments about northern crews being friendlier than London crews - isn't that just a reflection of northerners / Londoners in general?

It's a stereotype that gets grossly exaggerated in general, but I think it sometimes gets trotted out as a handy excuse by some staff and supervisors who aren't meeting national standards in companies. Bear in mind that there are some lovely London-based staff, and a few staff who aren't exactly great from the north and Scotland. In EC's case it's also more jarring because you can experience both, with a sudden switchover halfway.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Out of my three journeys, one of them was London based crews and two of them Scottish based.

One journey I had a London crew was obnoxious from start to finish because I was on a later train than planned due to a delayed connection which I got endorsed by the previous guard of which the on train RPI refused to accept and started issuing me a fine saying he did not believe the connecting train was delayed - I refused to pay and told him to check and he would see it was which he refused to do until there was a bit of a stand-off when he gave in.,

Second journey was Scottish crew, coming the Highland Cheftrain in the winter and it was heavily delayed coming into Haymarket and my destination was Ipswich. The platform at Haymarket changed right at the last second as the train was coming into the station so had to run around and go down the stairs quickly, got on the first carriage I could find and went to walk through to the reserved seats - encountered a trolley and the buffet area with the trolley blocking the gangway so I couldn't get past. Asked the young lady to move the trolley she refused and said she's on her break and to wait until next stop, get off the train and "get on the right carriage next time if you can read." in a sarcastic tone. It was ages till we got to Edinburgh because of another hold-up and I asked her to move the trolley a few times and she still refused saying she was on a break so just forced my way past - didn't like doing that but needs must.

Then changed at York for a train to Peterborough which I missed my connection on so had to get another train (again getting ticket endorsed) sat down in a table of four with the person I was traveling with, seats were not reserved. Group of 3 youths come up and say they have the seats reserved - asked to see the tickets and they refused to move, they showed me tickets but obscured the date/time on the seat reservation - I asked to see it and they started screaming abuse at me. Inspector came along and said they had the tickets booked for an earlier train but they missed it so their reservation goes forward to this one so was forced to vacate them by the RPI - I asked him if I have to move out because someone missed their connection can I have the seats I would have had if I hadn't have missed mine, told me that he doesn't have time to "walk back to that carriage." so I will just have to stand for an hour and a half and 'put this one down to bad luck'

Customer relations couldn't give a damn about it at first until I stepped up the pressure and they soon caved in and offered me ridiculous amounts of compensation, several times more than the value of the ticket in exchange for buying my silence.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's a stereotype that gets grossly exaggerated in general, but I think it sometimes gets trotted out as a handy excuse by some staff and supervisors who aren't meeting national standards in companies. Bear in mind that there are some lovely London-based staff, and a few staff who aren't exactly great from the north and Scotland. In EC's case it's also more jarring because you can experience both, with a sudden switchover halfway.

And if you want surly and unpleasant staff in the North, you'll find more than your fair share on TPE. Not all, not even the majority, nor even near it, but IME far more than on Northern.

 

[DarloRich]

Out of my three journeys, one of them was London based crews and two of them Scottish based.

One journey I had a London crew was obnoxious from start to finish because I was on a later train than planned due to a delayed connection which I got endorsed by the previous guard of which the on train RPI refused to accept and started issuing me a fine saying he did not believe the connecting train was delayed - I refused to pay and told him to check and he would see it was which he refused to do until there was a bit of a stand-off when he gave in.,

Second journey was Scottish crew, coming the Highland Cheftrain in the winter and it was heavily delayed coming into Haymarket and my destination was Ipswich. The platform at Haymarket changed right at the last second as the train was coming into the station so had to run around and go down the stairs quickly, got on the first carriage I could find and went to walk through to the reserved seats - encountered a trolley and the buffet area with the trolley blocking the gangway so I couldn't get past. Asked the young lady to move the trolley she refused and said she's on her break and to wait until next stop, get off the train and "get on the right carriage next time if you can read." in a sarcastic tone. It was ages till we got to Edinburgh because of another hold-up and I asked her to move the trolley a few times and she still refused saying she was on a break so just forced my way past - didn't like doing that but needs must.

Then changed at York for a train to Peterborough which I missed my connection on so had to get another train (again getting ticket endorsed) sat down in a table of four with the two people I was traveling with, seats were not reserved. Group of 3 youths come up and say they have the seats reserved - asked to see the tickets and they refused to move, they showed me tickets but obscured the date/time on the seat reservation - I asked to see it and they started screaming abuse at me. Inspector came along and said they had the tickets booked for an earlier train but they missed it so their reservation goes forward to this one so was forced to vacate them by the RPI - I asked him if I have to move out because someone missed their connection can I have the seats I would have had if I hadn't have missed mine, told me that he doesn't have time to "walk back to that carriage." so I will just have to stand for an hour and a half and 'put this one down to bad luck'

I have never once had a problem with a member of staff on board a train. I wonder why posters here seem to experience so many issues?

 

[F Great Eastern]

I have never once had a problem with a member of staff on board a train. I wonder why posters here seem to experience so many issues?

I have took thousands of train journeys in the UK and I can count in single figures the number of times I've had problems with staff so it's not a widespread issue at all but it does still happen.

But out of 4 East Coast trains I've took, three have been poor - I don't ask for people to roll out the red carpet, but I do ask them to be polite and friendly and not up themselves.

I think most of the staff are a credit to the railway and I think we have better staff than most countries here and I'm thankful for that - the GA and GWR staff for instance are approachable, friendly, down to earth, polite and generally exceptional.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I too generally find staff to be good. The main issues I have had involve poor training of staff with regard to ticket sales and validity, but I mostly avoid these encounters by purchasing online with an itinerary these days, or in less complicated cases using a TVM.

In particular route excesses are almost always done wrong.

 

[cjp]

City center to city center traveling Inverness to London rather than flog out to the airport and loose a couple of hours checking in taking shoes off to scanned etc. Just get to the station, get in decent size comfortable seat, get fed. Yes overall the train is slower than the train but it is reliable and I like traveling by train.

At New Year the Chieftain was more costly than the plan, the train was full the plane lightly loaded overall the train took up less time overall but the time whizzed by on the train.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Two things from an outsider:
- EC/DOR was indeed publicly owned, but in reality it was a standard DfT TOC which just happened to stay in house.
It was not representative of a putative all-nationalised railway with all the centralised policy and control that implies.
It had a "service level agreement" with the DfT rather than a franchise contract, and with no fixed term.
Its commitments were very limited (eg finishing the upgrades started by GNER).

- I know there's lots of hostility to Virgin/Stagecoach and their owners, but I've never found that level of vitriol aimed at VTWC.
What is it about VTEC which makes everyone so cross?

Because the Intercity East Coast franchise is still running with essentially the same resources as BR, it's about the only franchise that can be compared over 5 different managements in 21 years (6 if you split GNER into its 2 terms).
They are still the same IC225s and HSTs running over the same infrastructure, just a generation older.
Network Rail is another main ingredient to the service experience on the ECML, you can't really detach VTEC from NR LNE (as DfT have realised).

 

[thenorthern]

GNER was very popular in its day the only problem was it didn't make enough money.

 

[43096]

Customer relations couldn't give a damn about it at first until I stepped up the pressure and they soon caved in and offered me ridiculous amounts of compensation, several times more than the value of the ticket in exchange for buying my silence.

Given that you haven't remained silent, can we take it you will be repaying some of your compensation!?