I don’t think there are many TOCs that haven’t had the odd safety incident over the past couple of decades, their main competitor included, yet nobody else seems to get quite the same amount of flak as WCR.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
WCR - Jacobite 2026
- Thread starter Sc07
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That's because most TOCs seek to fix the things that led to the safety incident and are apologetic rather than arrogant about it.
Separate to the CDL issue which is not linked to a specific safety incident involving them, is there evidence WCR have not sought to fix the things which have led to safety incidents in the past? Surely if they hadn’t they would not have got their licence back following losing it nearly 16 years ago, and I don’t doubt they have been under higher scrutiny since.
Also I can’t think of many examples when other TOCs have been “apologetic” following an incident. Usually the process is dealt with internally and/or with RAIB and little comment made publicly.
TSGN Spotter
Member
West coast have operated for years, they have a license so they must be following procedures, they are regularly inspected by the ORR and given the fact the operating licence is still going, id say thats proof that they are safe.
WCR have had 2 prohibition notices issued against them, and had the operating license suspended, in the period of just over 10 years. I don't think that they're actively unsafe, but they are by no means a particularly scrupulous operator.
Part of the reason the whole saga over the Jacobite Started was that WCR weren't operating their approved safety precautions properly in regards to opening doors.
Add a very prominent prosecution for Wootten Bassett and a failed court case attempting to avoid safety requirements.
SwindonManor
Member
Yea I suppose.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Yea that I also agree with, but
WCR have contributed massively to the economy especially in Mallaig so yea
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
If I am perfectly honest at least they've finally stopped shooting themselves in the foot with the CDL. At least they're suddenly bothering because they're making a loss. The sad truth is the more I think about it, unless they had a very serious threat or (as they did) made a loss, I don't think WCR would honestly have listened to the ORR and the CDL regulations.
Last edited:
Once I see a full rake put together with working CDL fitted, then I'll celebrate.
Tetragon213
Member
I acknowledge that WCR does a lot for getting people interested in the railway. However, they also have had a historically awful safety record, which is very difficult to forgive.
Just related to the doors, iirc West Coast claimed that their processes (including a steward for every 4 doors) were just as safe as Central Door Locking, basically pretending that their incident in 2022 where a passenger managed to overpower said steward didn't happen. Then they had an incident in 2020 where they left York with a door still open.
And of course, the 2015 Wootton Bassett SPAD is frankly unforgiveable. That, combined with the following incident at Doncaster where they were found to have been isolating safety systems again, is truly appalling.
Getting banned from the mainline is quite the achievement. Getting banned twice though? That's impressive but in all the wrong ways.
If someone is that determined then CDL won't make a difference, they'll just pull the green handle.
But at least with the accompanying brake application, rather than with a door just swinging open in the breeze at linespeed!
hexagon789
Veteran Member
As far as I'm aware, CDL on loco-hauled coaches doesn't usually effect a brake application if an egress handle is pulled?
The claim against the regulation was indeed that having stewards is as safe as CDL, which is some claim given, no doubt amongst other things:
- Adding a steward per coach introduces another point of communication failure / misunderstanding / etc. to the operation
- CDL has external tell-tale lights. Dispatch cannot tell whether manual secondary locks have been applied
- Potential for interlock, as discussed above
I would expect a newly installed system to do so, though? But that’s merely my own assumption, I’ve no idea what the standards might say about it!
renegademaster
Established Member
Regardless of our opinions on WCRC this thread would be much better suited as somewhere for actual concrete updates rather than same arguement that's done several times, before this thread gets locked like the last West Coast thread
Tetragon213
Member
Wording on WCRC's website has changed ever so slightly,
But bookings are still not open.
But bookings are still not open.
On the original CDL the external lights tell you the open/closed signal has been received at that doors control panel only, they don't confirm the bolts have retracted or deployed, you need to check the internal indicators at each door to confirm the bolts have deployed. As above there wasn't any connection between the Green emergency release handle and the brake pipe, even if there was the door would still have been open at speed until the train had stopped.
The newer CDL deployments maybe different but a lot of the vehicles running with CDL are those fitted by BR.
Given recent events I suspect they are glad they didn't take bookings since their costs will now have increased significantly, at least they can up their prices if they do run this season.
SwindonManor
Member
I'm afraid that wording change was a while back.
I do know about Wotton Bassett yes, I'm not excusing WCR for that but yes - part of me wants them to get Jacobite on the move for their own sake. Has anyone seen that poster at Fort William? There were dates on it but they have since been taped over. RTT remains to list the timings for it, but no bookings are open.
martin butler
Member
- Joined
- 9 Oct 2018
- Messages
- 866
At the moment, they only have 2 air fitted steam locos, and only 1 is passed for the Mallaig road, 34028 will be resuming its main line duties soon, but i believe its only operating from Southall,
So if there are more than 2 steam hauled tours in the same week, one will have to be hauled by diesel, then there's washouts, maintenance etc,
Tangmere, is maintenance heavy, leaving just 45407 to operate the Jacobite's, 44871, is undergoing a full heavy overhaul, so won't be available several months, and 34028 is intended to handle the workings out of Southall,
I think the reason is because at the moment 45407 is needed to operate other charters, so there is no availible steam loco for the Jackobite .
So if there are more than 2 steam hauled tours in the same week, one will have to be hauled by diesel, then there's washouts, maintenance etc,
Tangmere, is maintenance heavy, leaving just 45407 to operate the Jacobite's, 44871, is undergoing a full heavy overhaul, so won't be available several months, and 34028 is intended to handle the workings out of Southall,
I think the reason is because at the moment 45407 is needed to operate other charters, so there is no availible steam loco for the Jackobite .
SwindonManor
Member
You bring good points. They got a lot of slack for their "steam diesel" mismatching last year from tourists who just wanted a steam engine (to be fair it's stated that there are no guarantees)
But if only 1 loco is available, bringing it back to the first post on this thread:
Will the afternoon train run
Or will they accept a 1 train operation?
Still, they need to think of something quick - as they are certainly not running from the 1st April, in 2 days time I wouldn't have thought
Isle of Mull
Member
Not a hope in hell, I think some diesel tours would be nice though
Killingworth
Established Member
HST!
SwindonManor
Member
How I would love to see that. It wouldn't be considered by WCR though I don't think, probably would be by LSL though. WCR don't want to lose the "Harry Potter" aspect that makes it their flagship service
But did so as soon as those vile mk2s pitched up.
Isle of Mull
Member
At least it was steam
martin butler
Member
- Joined
- 9 Oct 2018
- Messages
- 866
Sorry but West coast only have themselves to blame, other operators of MK1's on the mainline, fitted CDL and can still operate without any known issue, On the other hand West Coast thought the rules only applied to other, and always have, its not 1968,, time and conditions have moved on,
Someone with in West Cast, made the decision, they were not going to do as every other operator has done, The exceptions were made to allow the fitting of CDL, not to kick the can down the road, and not fit it, everyone else complied they chose not to, At the same time someone decided they were not going to fit air braking equipment on their own locos. at a time when the only compliant stock able to operate on NR was air brake
SwindonManor
Member
NYMR - Who take Mark 1 stock out onto the main railway (at least from Grosmont to Whitby) have door locking of some sort (minimal but enough) and enforce no window hanging very strictly along the last part of the line - but you're telling me WCR can't do it. They need to sort themselves out.
As far as I’m aware NYMR have exactly the same arrangement as WCR used to have on their Mk1s - a secondary manual door bolt. I understand the ORR are more lenient towards the Whitby operation due to the lower speed involved (25mph).
NYMRs dispensation is also strictly limited to between Grosmont and Whitby which is single track without any passing loops. I believe the argument here is that this operation therefore cannot interact with any other trains on the mainline (other than when in Whitby platform 2).
Also, as evidenced above, NYMR have a track record of sticking to the conditions of their exemption.