WCML Feb weekend closures at Preston

[greyman42]

No.

Not without a lot of route learning/ conducting - and drag with what?

Class 37s.

 

[dk1]

Could they not drag them over the Settle to Carlisle?

Those days are long gone I’m afraid. Avanti & Virgin before them chose not to continue with S&C route competency for drivers so not even Voyagers have that option now.

 

[ainsworth74]

So who threw away the diversionary route knowledge?

Virgin a decade or more ago.

 

[AndrewE]

Virgin a decade or more ago.

which proves my point that private sector motivations shouldn't be allowed to dominate public sector/infrastructure planning and investment in resilience.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I think a good number of people would prefer the train.

At a certain threshold yes, but the 2hr at best of the Bolton - Clitheroe - Settle route is just not feasible sadly for most.
A direct non stop bus (probably 1/2bph, plus 2bph stopping at Preston) Wigan to Lancaster would be 1hr15 on a generous schedule.

That part of the motorway network is relatively uncongested, apart from the Preston bypass itself, and traisping through the west of Preston itself via the A59 and Tom Benson Way.
That's only going to get easier for future blockades with the Preston Western Distributor opening soon.

This is where a parkway station at Broughton would be good; you'd cut about 1/3 - 1/2 off the RRB time and therefore delay for passengers.

 

[Bevan Price]

Based on experience of previous engineering work, each Pendolino from the south will have barely enough passengers to fill half a bus going north from Crewe, Warrington or Preston at this time of year.

 

[dk1]

Based on experience of previous engineering work, each Pendolino from the south will have barely enough passengers to fill half a bus going north from Crewe, Warrington or Preston at this time of year.

This is very true. Engineering work often results in approximately 60% less passengers travelling which always helps.

 

[AndrewE]

Based on experience of previous engineering work, each Pendolino from the south will have barely enough passengers to fill half a bus going north from Crewe, Warrington or Preston at this time of year.

and that's a good thing?

 

[td97]

I expect there could well have been an element of Top Trumps assumed as well "our job is more important than yours", it has happened in the past.

"Putting passengers first" rings true...

Renewals. Its not an enhancement job.

Presumably NR56 is being replaced with NR60Mk2 though?

 

[The Planner]

"Putting passengers first" rings true...


Presumably NR56 is being replaced with NR60Mk2 though?

No idea, im no track engineer.

 

[6Gman]

which proves my point that private sector motivations shouldn't be allowed to dominate public sector/infrastructure planning and investment in resilience.

It's an opinion.

Of course the government could choose to rewrite the agreements with the private sector (wasn't there talk of doing so a couple of years ago?) but until they do we are where we are.

And given the recent problems finding enough traincrew to work the regular timetable I don't think releasing traincrew for route learning of this nature is unlikely to be a priority.

 

[QueensCurve]

says for 3 full weekends and a Sunday no trains at all through Preston...
and looking at NR journey planner, every single Avanti train journey is split between 2 buses Wigan to Preston and Preston to Lancaster. Hasn't it occurred to them that through passengers don't need to go into Preston to change (losing yet more time and taking more buses for the same work) in the process?

It is disappointing, whatever the background and history, that the Railway can't send passengers on the awful Voyagers from Wigan to Carlisle via Hellifield.

There will be benefits from the work being done, but probably nothing worth a headline other than "more reliable journeys".
Preston, like Carlisle, did not see any local improvements during the big WCRM project, and the skids are under the promised "HS2 upgrade" to the layout.

What works are being done at Preston?
Simple renewals or will we see any benefits overall?

There is a flat double junction well out of the station with a 35mph turnout. It would be very useful if that could be enhanced.

 

[The Planner]

There is a flat double junction well out of the station with a 35mph turnout. It would be very useful if that could be enhanced.

No one is going to touch the layout at Preston until it is decided what layout is needed for ETCS.

 

[Pinus contorta]

Regarding the rail replacement. There isn't a great deal of spare room to turn multitude of buses / coaches round at Wigan so that may be one reason why there isn't a split of passenger s into Lancaster and Beyond and Preston only destinations for Avanti pax. There isn't an option of parking on the main road on Wallgate without interfering with the bus stops on the bus network south out of Wigan ( Arriva Stagecoach etc) although I suspect that will happen anyway.

 

[randyrippley]

Those days are long gone I’m afraid. Avanti & Virgin before them chose not to continue with S&C route competency for drivers so not even Voyagers have that option now.

Plenty of potential Thunderbirds at Carnforth, complete with crews who know the route

 

[zwk500]

Plenty of potential Thunderbirds at Carnforth, complete with crews who know the route

The issue isn't moving the trains over the line, the issue is more the terrible stock utilisation you get going by the S&C. You end up at Carlisle awkward in the middle of two paths forward to Glasgow so either have to retime everything on one end of the WCML or sit around at Carlisle for ages waiting to drop in to the next path. And then you have to diagram everything.

 

[randyrippley]

The issue isn't moving the trains over the line, the issue is more the terrible stock utilisation you get going by the S&C. You end up at Carlisle awkward in the middle of two paths forward to Glasgow so either have to retime everything on one end of the WCML or sit around at Carlisle for ages waiting to drop in to the next path. And then you have to diagram everything.

So run Preston-Carlisle shuttles using WCRC coaches

 

[dk1]

Plenty of potential Thunderbirds at Carnforth, complete with crews who know the route

Oh my days. That’s pure fantasy lol

 

[The Planner]

So run Preston-Carlisle shuttles using WCRC coaches

So that would require people to change trains twice? Changing to a coach and going up the M6 would still be quicker.

 

[andythebrave]

So run Preston-Carlisle shuttles using WCRC coaches

I'd do it.

As it stands though I won't be heading north by WC for the foreseeable future.

 

[QueensCurve]

The issue isn't moving the trains over the line, the issue is more the terrible stock utilisation you get going by the S&C. You end up at Carlisle awkward in the middle of two paths forward to Glasgow so either have to retime everything on one end of the WCML or sit around at Carlisle for ages waiting to drop in to the next path. And then you have to diagram everything.

I think a lot of passengers would prefer that even with the layovers required at Carlise and Preston.

 

[zwk500]

I think a lot of passengers would prefer that even with the layovers required at Carlise and Preston.

Would they prefer a +25% surcharge on the ticket to make up for the additional costs?

 

[Carlisle]

Would they prefer a +25% surcharge on the ticket to make up for the additional costs?

No because many probably appreciate that’d just be a whim of the current cost & operating structure in similar style to many of Dr Beeching’s antics of their day, rather than a fundamental problem with rail diversionary routes likely utilised in a similar manner for over a century already.

 

[randyrippley]

Would they prefer a +25% surcharge on the ticket to make up for the additional costs?

If you're going to use that as an argument, have you considered that the logical conclusion is to completely shut the rail network and replace it with cheap buses?

 

[AndrewE]

Would they prefer a +25% surcharge on the ticket to make up for the additional costs?

Come on, be realistic...

People pay a premium (over buses/coaches) for a rail ticket for a journey for the perceived integrated national timetable and greater reliability, safety and comfort (over road.) I certainly value the smooth ride in a train and really resent the diesel engine hammering away under me in a DMU or Voyager.
If "the railway" - which is how most normal people perceive it - chooses to make their journey an hour or two longer and even add in the need to change trains because it needs to shut lines for maintenance or whatever, why on earth should the passenger pay extra for the inconvenience?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

If you're going to use that as an argument, have you considered that the logical conclusion is to completely shut the rail network and replace it with cheap buses?

well if they keep making it so difficult to use at weekends then that is what people will naturally do for themselves

 

[zwk500]

If you're going to use that as an argument, have you considered that the logical conclusion is to completely shut the rail network and replace it with cheap buses?

I'm sure the thought has occurred at the Treasury.

 

[156421]

The Wigan-Preston and Lancaster-Preston buses in the timetable are listed as operated by Northern/TPE, replacing their services, and continue through Preston to Blackpool, Buckshaw or Manchester. Hence is the issue just that Avanti buses haven't been added to the timetable yet, given how last-minute their planning is these days?

Will be very last minute to make a decision based on ticket bookings... given the Saturday tickets are often released only days in advance

 

[Ex-controller]

What level of manager do you think is planning the replacement bus services to never have seen a train?

You’d be surprised at the lack of training offered even mid level managers at many TOCs.

 

[Winthorpe]

I'm to travel on the WCML to Glasgow on the weekend of Fri 10th - Sun 12th March. What's the best way to find out first when the amended timetable is published? Are the Avanti 'Advance Train Ticket Alerts' any good or is there a better way to find out first when they are available?