Virgin Trains to Shrewsbury

[Eagle]

They are not looking at the "business" market.

Who is "they"? Virgin or Network Rail?

If you look at the times Virgin proposed, then there is very clearly a business-oriented service from Shrewsbury to London in the morning peak and vice versa in the evening. But those services were rejected by NR, who only let the midday services stand.

 

[The Planner]

Virgin can still question it and take it to dispute again if they want to.

 

[Kettledrum]

Where do you get the idea "Set up to be cancelled"?

I look at those times and actually think that would be quite useful in the leisure/tourist market. Certainly fits into my leisure trips to London quite well and one I would use. They are not looking at the "business" market.

This is a token service that will help relatively few people make occasional journeys only. It doesn't really enable Shrewsbury folk to travel wider afield for employment or business which is a shame.

 

[Eagle]

At least now Shrewsbury has a London service, better than before.

But there's no pleasing people, eh?

 

[SprinterMan]

At least now Shrewsbury has a London service, better than before.

But there's no pleasing people, eh?

It is not better than no service though. It is a token service that will not get used, so when it gets withdrawn after 2 years like the previous Virgin service or WSMR did, it will mean Shrewsbury is left without a London service again, probably for a longish time. If this stupid service doesn't happen, then when the next WCML franchise comes along Shrewsbury will probably get a proper service, but if it does happen, it will just end up with this as a legacy service like Wrexham. Hell, at least the Wrexham trains run at appropriate times of the day, and not just randomly like this one. It will carry no people because it doesn't go through Birmingham, and will get cancelled like the other Virgin service did. As much as WSMR were very nice, they were to all intents and purposes just a railtour.

Adam

 

[Proud Salopian]

Where do you get the idea "Set up to be cancelled"?

I look at those times and actually think that would be quite useful in the leisure/tourist market. Certainly fits into my leisure trips to London quite well and one I would use. They are not looking at the "business" market.

So you travel to arrive in London at almost 7 in the evening and then leave again late in the morning?

That might work for going to the theatre... assuming the show doesn't start before 19:30 or so. But is otherwise useless.

And it doesn't even work for Londoners travelling to Shropshire. They get about 2 hours in the county town on a weekday...

The Sunday evening services are fine. But why nothing on Saturdays? Really is incredibly lame.

 

[Llanigraham]

This is a token service that will help relatively few people make occasional journeys only. It doesn't really enable Shrewsbury folk to travel wider afield for employment or business which is a shame.

And what about everyone else who might use Shrewsbury station?

So you travel to arrive in London at almost 7 in the evening and then leave again late in the morning?

That might work for going to the theatre... assuming the show doesn't start before 19:30 or so. But is otherwise useless.

And it doesn't even work for Londoners travelling to Shropshire. They get about 2 hours in the county town on a weekday...

The Sunday evening services are fine. But why nothing on Saturdays? Really is incredibly lame.

God there are some narrow minded people on here!!

I know lots of people who travel up to London late in the day for early meetings the next, plus people who are going up for several days, or to travel on from London. It also looks like it will sit well with the students from Aber Uni too.

It's a service that currently isn't being offered, so be grateful that we have been offered something.

And as I said above, just remember that it isn't just you Salopians that this is for, but many of us in Mid Wales!! I have to go to a meeting in London every couple of months and I would certainly use it.

 

[Proud Salopian]

God there are some narrow minded people on here!!

Quite astonishing really. Yes, how dare I question this pathetic excuse of a service. I must think of all the tens of people (perhaps as many as 30!) who will find it useful to travel direct to London at 4pm, especially if they got the other direct train to Shropshire arriving 2 hours previously.

You carry on thinking that this service will suit many people when it clearly doesn't. If anyone's narrow minded it's you, who thinks everyone is like you, travelling down to London in the evening... :roll:

We're not all students and retired theatre-going folk! Some of us actually have to work. Or have families. Or want to go to London for the day, perhaps even - horrors - on a Saturday. And Londoners might want to come up to Shrewsbury on direct trains and be able to spend more than 2 hours in the town!

Seriously, get a grip.

 

[thenorthern]

For most things Shrewsbury is served quite well, it has regular services to Cardiff, Manchester, Chester and Birmingham as well as some trains to Swansea and a link to Birmingham Airport.

the only problem is it doesn't have a link to London.

 

[NickJ]

The key issue that the offer from NR to Virgin is totally unsuitable and will not attract passengers and will bring the rail industry further poor publicity. I believe that Virgin should stick to its guns and appeal to the ORR for more suitable paths that will actually the paying customer. Having no service on a Saturday is ridiculous, especially when there are fewer trains on the network and there is a 'day trip' market from Shropshire to London. Whilst Shrewsbury has some reasonable rail links Wellington and Telford (with a combined population of 170,000) has a very poor, overcrowded and slow communter service to Wolverhampton and Birmingham and desperately needs a better rail service.

 

[Llanigraham]

Quite astonishing really. Yes, how dare I question this pathetic excuse of a service. I must think of all the tens of people (perhaps as many as 30!) who will find it useful to travel direct to London at 4pm, especially if they got the other direct train to Shropshire arriving 2 hours previously.

You carry on thinking that this service will suit many people when it clearly doesn't. If anyone's narrow minded it's you, who thinks everyone is like you, travelling down to London in the evening... :roll:

We're not all students and retired theatre-going folk! Some of us actually have to work. Or have families. Or want to go to London for the day, perhaps even - horrors - on a Saturday. And Londoners might want to come up to Shrewsbury on direct trains and be able to spend more than 2 hours in the town!

Seriously, get a grip.

I do have a grip, thank you, but then I look at the bigger picture, not just Shrewsburycentric as you seem to be.

As said, I know several people locally who do travel to London or onwards for meetings, often catching the early afternoon train from Caersws, changing at Birmingham, for them to get into London in time for dinner and a nights rest before an early meeting the next day. I also know of lecturers from Aber Uni who also teach at Cambridge who do a similar journey.

And for your information I'm not retired or a student, but a signalman, and I have to pay for my tickets.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Today's Shropshire Star reports that the Secretary of State has ordered the industry to find more paths for more trains to Shrewsbury than the off peak token Network Rail found

 

[NickJ]

The 16-03pm Shrewsbury-Euston service will just bring the rail industry into disrepute as it is a token service which will only please politicians and be of no use to fare paying passengers! A few heads need banging together to get a viable Shropshire-London service that will actually be of use to rail passngers.

 

[Eagle]

The SoS can tell Network Rail to do anything, but NR may turn around and say "nope, can't be done, that's why we could only approve the one service in the first place. Wait until the WCML recast".

 

[Llanigraham]

The 16-03pm Shrewsbury-Euston service will just bring the rail industry into disrepute as it is a token service which will only please politicians and be of no use to fare paying passengers! A few heads need banging together to get a viable Shropshire-London service that will actually be of use to rail passngers.

Why is it no use?
I've said this before ans will say it again. I know of people locally who are quite happy with that timing. It gets them into London to get to a hotel at a sensible time for their meetings that start at 1000 the next morning, but still gives them a chance to get work done locally in the morning.

 

[transmanche]

The 16-03pm Shrewsbury-Euston service will just bring the rail industry into disrepute as it is a token service which will only please politicians and be of no use to fare paying passengers!

I don't know about the 18:32 peak hour arrival into EUS; but my Mum will be delighted with the timing of the opposite working, the 11:33 from EUS!

 

[dannypye9999]

Wouldn't it just be easier to forward one of the Euston to Birmingham trains towards Telford and Shrewsbury like in the olden days? After looking at and studying the timetable myself I can see it can be done.

 

[dk1]

Hardly going to be a money spinner at anytime. If I was Virgin I wouldn't even bother. Must be far more lucrative WC markets to Pursue.

 

[Hardcastle]

What I cant understand is why Chester needs a hourly direct service to London is it because not many ex Liverpool/Manchester Virgin services stop at Crewe what is required is a LM Preston-Birmingham hourly service with calls at Leyland Wigan Warrington Hartford Crewe (maybe Stoke) Stafford Penkridge Wolves Sandwell & Dudley BHM to provide more flexibility a rerouting of one of the the direct hourly trains to/from Liverpool was proposed by LM at one time but the WCML francise did not allow.

 

[MCR247]

What I cant understand is why Chester needs a hourly direct service to London is it because not many ex Liverpool/Manchester Virgin services stop at Crewe what is required is a LM Preston-Birmingham hourly service with calls at Leyland Wigan Warrington Hartford Crewe (maybe Stoke) Stafford Penkridge Wolves Sandwell & Dudley BHM to provide more flexibility a rerouting of one of the the direct hourly trains to/from Liverpool was proposed by LM at one time but the WCML francise did not allow.

What is needed is some punctuation in that post

 

[dk1]

What I cant understand is why Chester needs a hourly direct service to London is it because not many ex Liverpool/Manchester Virgin services stop at Crewe what is required is a LM Preston-Birmingham hourly service with calls at Leyland Wigan Warrington Hartford Crewe (maybe Stoke) Stafford Penkridge Wolves Sandwell & Dudley BHM to provide more flexibility a rerouting of one of the the direct hourly trains to/from Liverpool was proposed by LM at one time but the WCML francise did not allow.

There is a Manchester & a Liverpool Virgin service every hour that stops at Crewe en-route to Euston. The Chester Voyagers load very well especially as Chester is the connecting point for The N.Wales Coast nowadays.

 

[Eagle]

Wouldn't it just be easier to forward one of the Euston to Birmingham trains towards Telford and Shrewsbury like in the olden days? After looking at and studying the timetable myself I can see it can be done.

Which service do you propose is extended (bearing in mind it's a three hour round trip from Birmingham to Shrewsbury and back).

 

[Hardcastle]

I would suggest a early morning departure from Shrewsbury & a mid evening return from London maybe ecs each way.

 

[Llanigraham]

I would suggest a early morning departure from Shrewsbury & a mid evening return from London maybe ecs each way.

Oh look, another Shrewsburycentric contributor!!

When will people realise that there are lots more people that use Shrewsbury station than just the people that live there?
Have you looked at the time the first train from the Cambrian gets into Shrewsbury?
Do you think that us in Mid Wales might actually need to go to London too, so an early depature might not suit us?

Please remember that Shrewsbury isn't the centre of the universe!!

And in my world "ecs" is "empty coaching stock"!!

 

[dannypye9999]

Or could the 18:10 Euston to Wrexham General not be extended to Shrewsbury and Telford Central? Then ECS to the nearby sidings..and vice versa the following morning.

If I were in charge id extend the 18:23 Euston to Wolverhampton and replace it with a voyager from the Scotland route. It would have to run slower from Telford as it would be close behind the 2005 LM service New St to Shrewsbury.

 

[tbtc]

What I cant understand is why Chester needs a hourly direct service to London is it because not many ex Liverpool/Manchester Virgin services stop at Crewe what is required is a LM Preston-Birmingham hourly service with calls at Leyland Wigan Warrington Hartford Crewe (maybe Stoke) Stafford Penkridge Wolves Sandwell & Dudley BHM to provide more flexibility a rerouting of one of the the direct hourly trains to/from Liverpool was proposed by LM at one time but the WCML francise did not allow.

Birmingham to Preston has just seen its capacity significantly increased, with the hourly Virgin service being mainly comprised of 390s rather than Voyagers.

Why should Liverpool lose out to provide another Birmingham - Preston service?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Starting the service would at least make it extremely difficult to remove later.
Though for all Patrick McLoughlin's "instructions" it will, like Wrexham, be at Virgin's risk (ie not part of the franchise spec).

The return leg from Shrewsbury at 1603 is perfectly suitable for part of a London-Shropshire business trip, and the through trains are 20 minutes faster than any other route.
Telford-Crewe is a useful connection (there is the odd ATW working as well).

 

[Gareth Marston]

The 16-03pm Shrewsbury-Euston service will just bring the rail industry into disrepute as it is a token service which will only please politicians and be of no use to fare paying passengers! A few heads need banging together to get a viable Shropshire-London service that will actually be of use to rail passngers.

That argument has been accepted it would seem by yesterday's news.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The SoS can tell Network Rail to do anything, but NR may turn around and say "nope, can't be done, that's why we could only approve the one service in the first place. Wait until the WCML recast".

Unfortunately being a clever railway diagramming knowledge holder is somewhat irrelevant the Shropshire MP's have put a lot of political capital, personal effort into the campaign for restoration of direct services and with an election on the horizon in less than 18 months they want a tangible result to be able to claim credit for. They seem to have the Minister on side there will be a lot of pressure on NR regardless of what the timetable bods say.

 

[crewmeal]

If Virgin are not interested then let Chiltern operate it Via New Street Wolverhampton without restrictions.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If Virgin are not interested then let Chiltern operate it Via New Street Wolverhampton without restrictions.

Nobody else has applied to serve Shrewsbury, and the last attempt from Marylebone didn't work.